The Doe Network, Part 2: Who is Princess Blue?

RKnowley said:

I am bringing this over from the original Doe Network thread.

How has this changed now to an unknown weight? Have you had the chance to talk to the person at TMPCH and asked WHY the weight was changed to unknown when before they estimated 175 lbs and based on other factors besides the ring?


In post # 82 Lion says:

Also, I spoke with the person at the Texas Missing Persons Clearinghouse in charge of Princess Blue's case. She said that although LE has and is still trying to contact everyone from the graduating class of 1975, she doesn't know if they have reached all of them. She said that LE has obtained pictures and notes from 1975 from the school; but, I was unclear as to whether or not they actually have a copy of the year book.

She said that out of respect for the family members(hopefully they will be found), they intentionally did not state the manner of death. However, she said that she has no notes about clothing found with Princess Blue's remains, and that would most likely have been posted to help ID her if clothes were found with her remains. I speculate that she may have been found with no clothes. We can speculate there may have been foul play because of this and the fact that she was found in a place, full of debris and considered a dump site for bodies.

She also confirmed our belief that the ring is a ladies ring. Good, at least that is finally out of the way, lol. She does not know if the ring was sized up or sized down; however, I believe it was most likely sized up.

She said emphatically that her weight was determined by other factors other than the ring size. She didn't specify what factors; but, connections on the bones for tendons are larger, the heavier a person is, and/or the more strength training exercises they do. There are several ways to estimate weight based on skeletal remains. So, I think we can assume her weight was somewhere around 175 at death.

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sloane said:

By the way, to anyone who can remember, was the previous guess as to P.Blue's weight of 175# ever listed on the MPCH? I have a printout of the posting dating back to March 7, '07, and it was listed as "Unknown" at that time as well. When did it change, or did it?

Thanks all,

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RKnowley said:

Sloane, you are correct that the TXMPCH site has said that Princess Blue's weight was unknown as far back as 2003 according to the WayBack Machine.

http://web.archive.org/web/20031211...x.us/mpch/UnidentifiedDetails.asp?id=U0310014

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LionRun said:

I think that there has been confusion at least in part because I and perhaps others went on what is up on the doenetwork and what was in that news article from 9/2006. I thought that the TX dps site was recently changed; however, I was obviously mistaken. I am sorry about that.

Lion

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MrsG728 said:

I'm going to begin looking into the local papers as you guys suggested. Thank you for the links- you guys are AMAZING sleuthers... what a great idea!

MG

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RKnowley said:

Does anyone know where we stand in regards to the yearbook? I noticed that Sable had entered a lot of names. How close are we to having it completed?

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sloane said:

Let me tell you about another case:

In March of 1997, the skeletal remains of a Hispanic (this time, for sure!!) or mixed Hispanic/ Caucasian young woman were discovered on private property in the Monaville area of Waller Co., Texas. Its location is near Irons Creek and FM359. There was no clothing or jewelry; she was wrapped in a mattress cover. She was believed to have been out there at least two years. She was between 5'0" - 5'4" tall, and would have weighed approx. 100-140 lbs. in life. She was between 23-35 yrs. old. She was believed to have been right-handed and had numerous dental restorations and dental crowding. DNA is on file w. the Nat'l. MP Database.

Another similar case to all the other UIDs in the general vicinity. Waller Co. borders Harris Co. just to the west.

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KT Can said:

Hello to all... I can't believe I haven't noticed this thread before now. :doh: Anyhoo, I live in Houston in and Princess Blue's case has been stuck in my head since I first heard about her years ago; it's that darn class ring - it seems so easily traceable. I did some sleuthing on this about five years ago, coming up with nothing, so I'm glad you guys started this thread and have been so diligently working on her case. Kudos to all of you! :clap: :clap: :clap:

A couple of thoughts just from having lived here all of my life and having traveled through Manvel more times than I can remember. First of all, Manvel is a blip on the map, an easy dumping ground for someone traveling on 288 or Highway 6, which are both major roadways. Highway 6 sort of runs parallel to I-45 starting right before Galveston and then kind of vears off to the west and takes you to 59. We had LOTS of girls missing and/or abducted and murdered here in the 70's, 80's & 90's along what is called the I-45 corrider, the stretch from Galveston to Houston and several miles to the east or west on either side. Highway 6 could very well fall under this umbrella. Highway 6, Highway 288 and I-45 are all routes used by truck drivers going to and from the refineries and chemical plants along the coast and a main theory throughout these abductions and murders has been that it was a truck driver(s) with regular routes through the area. Princess Blue could have been abducted or hitching a ride, but her having the class ring says to me that she is local, or that a relative was local at one time and handed the ring down to her. Of course her finding the ring is another option; I've often had the thought that the ring doesn't hold as much significance in identifying her as we would like.

The suggestion that this could be Blanca Roberson is a good one; I'm not clear if this has been checked out so I apologize if it has. Blanca disappeared from Aransas Pass, an area near a lot of refineries and chemical plants. Highway 35 begins near Aransas Pass and goes along the coast somewhat and runs into Highway 288 and ends at Highway 6 very close to Manvel. Highway 35 would again be a route used by truckers going to the refineries and chemical plants between Houston, Galveston, Corpus Christie and the cities in between along the coast.

A thought I've had about the Princess Doe not being a missing person from Houston is that with all the publicity the I-45 missing and murdered were receiving around the time Princess Blue was found, I would think that LE would have thoroughly compared her to everyone that had been reported. Who knows on that one though...

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LionRun said:

Good question RKnowely. I think that MrsG was working on it, but she had a couple of things she needed to take care of before she was to continue adding names to the spreadsheet.

Lion

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sloane said:

Hi all-
Just wanted to let your know the rsults of my discussion w/ a for. anthro. (~35 yrs. in the field!)
In short, unfortunately, there is "no credible evidence" in the prediction of the decay rate of bone marrow...DARN!! Sorry guys. Yes, research has been done in this field, but results are "inconclusive," thus far. I told him everything I know about the case, the scene, the timeline and her for. anthrop. profile, but he said there just really isn;t a clear formula to say, "Okay, she was out in this temp., this humidity, under / in a tire, she's this age range and size, so she must have been out there for (example) 5 years." It's just not like that. He says it is probable that marrow can withstand many years though, esp. if not disturbed by scavenging. As horrible as it sounds, that is a part of the human body that some scavengers go for - the marrow. So MAYBE, just maybe she wasn't out there since the seventies.

I'm interested to see what other experts have to say. So teons, and others who were going to ask ppl., please DO post your findings.

thanks,

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RKnowley said:

Lion, I know MrsG had been working on it but within the last 2 days or so Sable has added a ton of names to the spreadsheet from the yearbook. I know this because she stated she was going to do so on the SKM website. I also know because I have been working on the females (contact info) the last couple days since she added the names. I was just wondering how close we were.

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LionRun said:

Thank you sloane. I guess that we still just don't know so unless we can get another fa or fp with different information or experience to elaborate even further or give us a different point of view. i imagine that the fa you spoke with is highly skilled. now wonder I couldn't find valuable info on the subject.

So I am going to continue to keep my eye out for girls/young women who disappeared from 1975 to 1990. What we do know; however, is that we cannot rule out that Princess died in 1975 or shortly thereafter--at least not by what info we have so far.

About the bones and the marrow in them being scavenged--it would have been more likely that they would have been scavenged while relatively fresh. If some marrow remained in one or more bones past the time that they were, "fresh" the bones with the marrow would have likely become less and less appealing to scavengers. So, it wouldn't surprise me if they made it that far in time--once they made it past the, "fresh" stage. I am sorry for being so gory. I don't know how else to say that.


Another way that I know of to possibly determine TOD in a case where only skeletal remains are present is to note if any of the bones are still articulated(attached by soft tissue such as tendons) and to note things such as bone scatter, which bones are present(small bone decompose or are lost, first), and more. But, I don't know if Sgt. Coffman knows exactly what condition Princess Blue's remains were found in. Again, he inherited this case and others. I understand that they may not have been able to do as much when her remains were first found. And, I don't know how detailed the original records were.

Lion

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