Possible US-led Airstrike Hits Doctors Without Borders Hospital

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Indy Anna

Indy Anna

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I don't like political discussions, but this makes me both angry and sad:

[snipped]
An air strike, probably carried out by U.S.-led coalition forces, killed 19 staff and patients, including three children on Saturday, in a hospital run by Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) in the northern city of Kunduz, the aid group said.

The U.S. military said it conducted an air strike "in the vicinity" of the hospital as it targeted Taliban insurgents who were directly firing on U.S. military personnel and an investigation into the incident had begun.

U.N. Human Rights chief Zeid Ra'ad Al Hussein led a chorus of condemnation, without saying who carried out the strike, noting that an assault on a hospital could amount to a war crime.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/03/us-afghanistan-attack-idUSKCN0RW0HC20151003
 
Oh, this is terrible :(

[snipped]

“The bombs hit, and then we heard the plane circle round,” said Heman Nagarathnam, who is the charity’s head of programs in northern Afghanistan. “There was a pause, and then more bombs hit. This happened again and again. When I made it out from the office, the main hospital building was engulfed in flames.”

Those who could, Nagarathnam said, hid in the hospital’s bunker. Medical staff and critically ill patients, however, were left exposed to the ensuing fire.

A nurse working at the hospital, Lajos Zoltan Jecs, said that when she and other staff members emerged from a safe room after the attack, they looked into the intensive care unit, which was on fire.

“Six patients were burning in their beds,” she said in a statement issued by Doctors Without Borders. “There are no words for how terrible it was,” she said.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...d13104-b50a-48ec-9eb9-92db8ee3a876_story.html


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I saw a post on FB while ago saying there are now 20 dead. I don't remember the news source, but all of the articles I now see are still saying 19. Some victims are still in critical condition so that figure could go up. What a horrific way to die. :(
 
Terrible .. so the hospital gave their co-ordinates and they still got bombed. I hope our government finally pulls out of this conflict, we have no business being involved in a dispute that has nothing to do with us.
 
Edited for clarity: For those who see this as a "we have no business being there"; You are missing the part of coalition forces. It was led by a U.S. Team, but it wasn't just U.S. Forces. Coalition forces are NATO forces whose mission is to increase security and assist local forces to secure their region. Unfortunately because the hospital was in the vicinity of the air strike it suffered collateral damage. It wasn't a deliberate/direct bombing of the hospital. MOO: If you choose to work in a war zone you are choosing the risk of being killed.
 
I included in my first 2 posts that the airstrike was by US-led coalition forces, and that this was considered collateral damage but, IMO, that doesn't make the deaths and injuries of innocent civilians and medical staff any less terrible and it is being investigated as a criminal act.

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[snipped]

President Barack Obama says he expects a full accounting of the circumstances surrounding the deadly bombing of a hospital in Afghanistan that killed 19.

[....]

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon "strongly" condemned the airstrikes in Kunduz and said hospitals and medical personnel are "explicitly protected" under international humanitarian law, his spokesman's office said in a statement Saturday.

[....]

"International and Afghan military planners have an obligation to respect and protect civilians at all times, and medical facilities and personnel are the object of a special protection," [U.N. Human Rights chief] Zeid's statement says. "These obligations apply no matter whose air force is involved, and irrespective of the location."

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/03/world/middleeast/ap-ml-afghanistan-the-latest.html
 
Indy Anna said:
I included in my first 2 posts that the airstrike was by US-led coalition forces, and that this was considered collateral damage but, IMO, that doesn't make the deaths and injuries of innocent civilians and medical staff any less terrible and it is being investigated as a criminal act.

------------------------------------------------------------

[snipped]

President Barack Obama says he expects a full accounting of the circumstances surrounding the deadly bombing of a hospital in Afghanistan that killed 19.

[....]

U.N. Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon "strongly" condemned the airstrikes in Kunduz and said hospitals and medical personnel are "explicitly protected" under international humanitarian law, his spokesman's office said in a statement Saturday.

[....]

"International and Afghan military planners have an obligation to respect and protect civilians at all times, and medical facilities and personnel are the object of a special protection," [U.N. Human Rights chief] Zeid's statement says. "These obligations apply no matter whose air force is involved, and irrespective of the location."

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/10/03/world/middleeast/ap-ml-afghanistan-the-latest.html
Click to expand...

Sorry, I wasn't directing the word "you" to any particular person, I meant in general. My mistake. It absolutely is horrible and must be investigated. My reason for stating what I did was the reaction of others as if this was deliberate and we as a country need to get out of Afghanistan. It isn't that simple. I get frustrated when terrible things like this happen and people in general are quick to blame the coalition forces as monsters. Again, everyone there who isn't an Afghani native that chooses to be there knows the risk they take by living and working there. Who is to say Taliban forces didn't do this on purpose to make coalition forces look criminal? They just conveniently happen to fire on troops in the vicinity of the hospital knowing return fire would come. Who are the criminals here? President Obama declared the U.S. Mission in Iraq and Afghanistan is over; yet we have thousands of troops in both countries on coalition task forces. As a veteran and current Army spouse these things always hit home hard. I apologize for offending you, it was not my intention.

ETA: As far as war crimes go; what about the Taliban? Since they aren't a part of NATO, I guess they get a free pass? Rules of engagement and SOFA only apply to forces who adhere to the standard and are held accountable.
 
This is sickening news in a week when I didn't think the news could get any worse.
 
It may have? Is this wording meant to make us unsure it was the US? If another country was suspected of doing this I bet there would be no maybe involved!!!


MOO!!
 
MissUnderstood said:
It may have? Is this wording meant to make us unsure it was the US? If another country was suspected of doing this I bet there would be no maybe involved!!!


MOO!!
Click to expand...

I suspect it was a mixture of U.S. Led NATO coalition forces AND Taliban insurgents who are responsible. Yet only NATO forces are accountable for war crimes unless the insurgents are captured and tried.
 
Montjoy said:
Oh, do the Taliban insurgents have an air force now?
Click to expand...

No but "bombs" could be dropped from planes at the same time insurgents use RPG's and other explosives. According to the accounts of hospital staff they were hit by "bombs" on and off over a period of 45 minutes. Unless they stood outside and watched each "bomb" come from a plane I find it hard to ascertain that only air strike incendiaries were responsible. MOO
 
It's obvious that I'm alone in my stance. Believe what you will. I have been on a NATO task force and it isn't as cut and dry like a movie or the press would have you believe. I'm certain both forces are to blame. Collateral damage is something those with good intentions try to avoid but when opposing forces choose to lead an attack near innocent civilians it's going to happen to some degree.

This is the last I will say on it unless someone has an actual question for me instead of sarcasm directed at me.
 
thepinkdragon said:
I have been on a NATO task force
Click to expand...

rsbm

Perhaps you might get yourself verified here. Here's a question -- if you're going to speak authoritatively as a 'task force' member, why not get verified? And sure, things aren't always so cut and dried, but the scenario you present doesn't seem the least bit plausible to me. But who knows, much can happen in the fog of war. I don't know how anyone with no actual information can speak with 'certainty' about such an event, though.
 
A suspected US airstrike is a nice way of saying .. it was a US air strike.

It said the trauma centre in Kunduz was "hit several times during sustained bombing and was very badly damaged".

"The bombing continued for more than 30 minutes after American and Afghan military officials in Kabul and Washington were first informed," MSF said on Twitter.

"All parties to the conflict, including in Kabul and Washington, were clearly informed of the precise location (GPS coordinates) of the MSF facilities."

.. and ..

NATO said a US airstrike "may have" hit a hospital run by the medical charity in Kunduz.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...lled-in-bombing-of-afghan-city-kunduz/6825480

It is what it is, look forward to hearing more from the enquiry, but as a supporter of MSF this is very disappointing as they do the work nobody else is willing to do. Sad.
 
Montjoy said:
rsbm

Perhaps you might get yourself verified here. Here's a question -- if you're going to speak authoritatively as a 'task force' member, why not get verified? And sure, things aren't always so cut and dried, but the scenario you present doesn't seem the least bit plausible to me. But who knows, much can happen in the fog of war. I don't know how anyone with no actual information can speak with 'certainty' about such an event, though.
Click to expand...

I could get verified as a military veteran who had been on different missions but not as a verified insider on the current operation in Afghanistan. As a trained soldier and veteran of NATO task forces in both Korea and Bosnia, I see different possible scenarios than a civilian may. Until the incident is fully investigated by authorities from multiple agencies we won't know who is responsible for what.
 
Mrs G Norris said:
A suspected US airstrike is a nice way of saying .. it was a US air strike.

It said the trauma centre in Kunduz was "hit several times during sustained bombing and was very badly damaged".

"The bombing continued for more than 30 minutes after American and Afghan military officials in Kabul and Washington were first informed," MSF said on Twitter.

"All parties to the conflict, including in Kabul and Washington, were clearly informed of the precise location (GPS coordinates) of the MSF facilities."

.. and ..

NATO said a US airstrike "may have" hit a hospital run by the medical charity in Kunduz.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-10-...lled-in-bombing-of-afghan-city-kunduz/6825480

It is what it is, look forward to hearing more from the enquiry, but as a supporter of MSF this is very disappointing as they do the work nobody else is willing to do. Sad.
Click to expand...

I agree, it is sad. Let's agree to disagree on sustained U.S. Bombing. Air strikes are conducted in intervals with multiple passes as long as return fire is being conducted. A Taliban insurgent is just as likely to fire an RPG at a plane and miss. MOO
 
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