British student murdered in Perugia, 3 suspects

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lonetraveler said:
Since this trial began and Knox was on multiple headlines in newspapers, I wondered how it would have been if a young American student was murdered here in America by an Italian student. I doubt that many people would have heard about it. What do you think, if the players were switched, the countries switched? How do you think it would have played out?
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My personal feeling...i think had a young American student had been killed by a Italian that Nancy Grace would be leading people into a frenzy about it on her show and demanding the death penalty for the accused. ( If its allowed for a None American at least). It would maybe depend on how brutal the crime was...but im not so sure it would have been so big this side of the pond as the Meredith case has been.
 
lonetraveler said:
I've considered the circumstances surrounding the confession many times. It seems to me that if you felt that you were coerced into confessing then you would be even more emotional and angry about what you were going through, and yet, Knox was still without anger, without passion and showed a total lack of emotion or caring at all. I have not seen any pain at losing her roommate, nor compassion for the victim's family.
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Funny thing is..although she claimed in court she was beaten by the cops into confession she never even made an actual complaint about it to anyone so her allegation could be investigated. Why not get her lawyer to take pictures of any marks she had after this supposed beating?
 
dgfred said:
Ha, I know what you mean about the 90s!

-AK was a WITNESS before she accused Patrick L, from that point on she was at least a SUSPECT. AK demanded to speak to LE in the middle of the night and a couple of days later submitted a letter to them describing her 'thoughts' of what might have happened and what she was doing that night that she could remember. She also sent emails describing the day and night to family and friends. All of these statements are full of descrepancies and some outright lies imo. She was offered a translater and did not need one in her own opinion in the first interviews.

-The prosecution did not have to give a motive, mostly it was just speculation/theories/possible scenarios of what might have happened according to all the evidence and using logic.

-I don't think AK hated Meredith, maybe resentment/jealousy/dislike/indifference... probably some better descriptions anyway. I believe this may have started as a prank, as there has been some questions about AK doing this to another person in her past = pretending to kidnap a person or scare them while under disguise. I think it maybe started out that way to scare or intimidate Meredith... and escalated out of control.
I do believe Meredith was annoyed at AK's sanitary habits, activities with guys, and overall behavior... but not hate either.

-The evidence of clean-up and a staged break-in were large factors in case.
RG would not clean up other evidence and leave his all over the place. Why would a break-in be staged? How was this and the blood stains and Meredith's locked door not make AK suspicious when she first came home as she said? Why can RS and AK not remember exactly what they did that night except for proven lies? Why would they BOTH lie anyway, if innocent? There is AKs and Merediths DNA on a knife found at RS home... how could that happen if Meredith had eaten supper with RS as he claimed? Why would they both turn off their cell phones (unlike any other days) at the same time early that night? Where are the clothes and shoes she was wearing that night?
Much more stuff than you might imagine at first to consider imo.
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Wow. I forgot all of this evidence. It has been so long since I looked at the case!

dgfred said:
Try the Perugia Murder Trial site and you can cruise tons of stuff. I looked at both this site and sites supporting AK... so I am not just biased to one side or the other. I believe the evidence/lying shows they both had something to do with the murder... what I am not sure of exactly. I do not believe this is a witch-hunt after sifting through the evidence/logic/and statements. I do believe she had a fair... if extra long trial. Her defense team did absolutely nothing to refute the evidence presented against her... instead relying on emotional appeals for her to be innocent. Why makes one wonder. This is an interesting case, if one wishes to dig deep into the evidence and statements made.
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Thanks. I did not know some of this!

lonetraveler said:
I've considered the circumstances surrounding the confession many times. It seems to me that if you felt that you were coerced into confessing then you would be even more emotional and angry about what you were going through, and yet, Knox was still without anger, without passion and showed a total lack of emotion or caring at all. I have not seen any pain at losing her roommate, nor compassion for the victim's family.
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You are right. As you can probably tell, I leaned toward this being a fair verdict but was not sure. After reading all the posts and refreshing my memory about facts I have not read about for some time, I do think justice prevailed here. I hope Meredith's family can find some peace with these verdicts.
 
gitana1 said:
Wow. I forgot all of this evidence. It has been so long since I looked at the case!



Thanks. I did not know some of this!



You are right. As you can probably tell, I leaned toward this being a fair verdict but was not sure. After reading all the posts and refreshing my memory about facts I have not read about for some time, I do think justice prevailed here. I hope Meredith's family can find some peace with these verdicts.
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Gitana you should read this sometime :)

http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/C356/
 
dgfred said:
Thanks for giving that link. The Perugia Murder Trial site is also an excellent sourse of information on this case.
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Thanks i will look at it in the morning :) its 03.12 here now lol
 
well, I've been reading a lot & am seeing that there are Italians/Brits who think she's innocent and Americans who think she's guilty and vice versa

looks like we're all human and all over the board on this one

I wanted to say two things about the Italian policia/guards though

1. the women guards seem really, really kind - motherly-like

2. the uniforms are awful!
 
LadyL said:
well, I've been reading a lot & am seeing that there are Italians/Brits who think she's innocent and Americans who think she's guilty and vice versa

looks like we're all human and all over the board on this one

I wanted to say two things about the Italian policia/guards though

1. the women guards seem really, really kind - motherly-like

2. the uniforms are awful!
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To be totally honest..i dont know one person who thinks shes innocent and i know they was showing cheering tonight in the streets in Italy when the verdict was read out. Most comments ive seen here on media sites etc have thought she was guilty also although a couple havent admittedly.

I agree about the women guards btw :)
 
Isabella said:
Its also been reported that she threatened a guy with a knife in Italy.

I agree there is a difference in where you come from on whether you believe the verdict or not. It seems to me..that Americans..or some would rather put all the blame on a black guy from the Ivory Coast rather than accept a American girl could have been involved in this. And then because she is..then its like well Amandas not guilty its just the Italians are corrupt blah blah blah.
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Well, I'm an American who believes that that American is Guilty of murdering her British roommate in Italy regardless of why she did it!
 
WOW! What a weird case- and trial. That being said, I do think Ms. Knox is guilty... too many things she did (or didn't do) just don't add up to innocence. Doing cartwheels at the police station? Is she INSANE?? She did nothing, imo, to help her own case- lying, covering up, false accusations relying on racism, etc. I do think it's a shame that the jury wasn't at all kept from news reports/tabloids, but... she wasn't in America, and she knew it. She was familiar with other cultures and should not have depended on the US to "save" her; it doesn't work that way. I feel so sorry for her family, but even more so for poor Meredith's. BTW, does anyone know if "26 years" in Italy means 26 full years? Is there early parole possibilities??
 
Isabella said:
Because to say she wasnt given a fair trial because the Jurors may have read a paper in the 11 months is ludicrous especially when there are shows like Nancy around.
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I was on a jury a couple of years ago and we were instructed to stay away from media reports. I think it's necessary for a fair trial. The trial I was involved in didn't get any press I'm aware of, and it would be almost impossible to avoid hearing anything about this trial in Italy, but they should at least instruct the jury to do so. JMO

gitana1 said:
Italy is not like a third world country. It's not like being interrogated or incarcerated in Indonesia or Thailand, for example. But, I do get your meaning.
But the problem was not that AK was into sex, it was that she was into anything after her roommate had been murdered. As someone stated above, Italians are passionate people who wear their hearts on their sleeves and express themselves loudly and often. Her ability to be so cavalier about her friend's death as to plan sex and show no emotion after the fact would have convinced most Italians that she must be guilty.
On the other hand, she was only twenty and false confessions do occur. The younger the suspect and the longer the interrogation,the more chances of a false interrogation. So, it's possible.
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BBM

I can't imagine wanting to have sex after a sight like that had been burned into my memory. I think it would take some time. People do grieve differently but that seems hinky to me. It's almost like they got off on it.

I just finished watching Dateline and there are some things I didn't know before.

1. AK and RS's cellphones were found discarded. RS said he had called 911 before he actually did.

2. Computer forensic experts could find no evidence that RS was downloading movies at the time he claimed.

3. RG's hand print was found on a pillow.

4. When AK first came home she found the door open and proceeded to go in and take a shower without noticing the blood until she got out of the shower and dressed. (that doesn't pass the smell test. You come home find the door open, which is unusual, you don't notice anything wrong. You undress and take a shower. Get dressed and then notice the blood?! (In my best Judge Judy) If it doesn't make sense, it's not true!!)

5. Her multiple stories, which IMO, could be signs of coerced information. I don't think that happened but it does fit how things like that can happen JMO.

6. RS has a family member in the police there.

7. Her boss was jailed until they found RG's hand print.

8. Her nickname Foxy Knoxy was given to her for her soccer skills by her team.

9. Her boss was planning on firing her and rumor was he was going to hire Meredith.

I'm tired and that's all I can remember for now. :bedtime:
 
annmarie62 said:
WOW! What a weird case- and trial. That being said, I do think Ms. Knox is guilty... too many things she did (or didn't do) just don't add up to innocence. Doing cartwheels at the police station? Is she INSANE?? She did nothing, imo, to help her own case- lying, covering up, false accusations relying on racism, etc. I do think it's a shame that the jury wasn't at all kept from news reports/tabloids, but... she wasn't in America, and she knew it. She was familiar with other cultures and should not have depended on the US to "save" her; it doesn't work that way. I feel so sorry for her family, but even more so for poor Meredith's. BTW, does anyone know if "26 years" in Italy means 26 full years? Is there early parole possibilities??
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I THINK she has to do the whole 26 but i could be wrong tho.
 
Steely Dan said:
I was on a jury a couple of years ago and we were instructed to stay away from media reports. I think it's necessary for a fair trial. The trial I was involved in didn't get any press I'm aware of, and it would be almost impossible to avoid hearing anything about this trial in Italy, but they should at least instruct the jury to do so. JMO



BBM

I can't imagine wanting to have sex after a sight like that had been burned into my memory. I think it would take some time. People do grieve differently but that seems hinky to me. It's almost like they got off on it.

I just finished watching Dateline and there are some things I didn't know before.

1. AK and RS's cellphones were found discarded. RS said he had called 911 before he actually did.

2. Computer forensic experts could find no evidence that RS was downloading movies at the time he claimed.

3. RG's hand print was found on a pillow.

4. When AK first came home she found the door open and proceeded to go in and take a shower without noticing the blood until she got out of the shower and dressed. (that doesn't pass the smell test. You come home find the door open, which is unusual, you don't notice anything wrong. You undress and take a shower. Get dressed and then notice the blood?! (In my best Judge Judy) If it doesn't make sense, it's not true!!)

5. Her multiple stories, which IMO, could be signs of coerced information. I don't think that happened but it does fit how things like that can happen JMO.

6. RS has a family member in the police there.

7. Her boss was jailed until they found RG's hand print.

8. Her nickname Foxy Knoxy was given to her for her soccer skills by her team.

9. Her boss was planning on firing her and rumor was he was going to hire Meredith.

I'm tired and that's all I can remember for now. :bedtime:
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7 her Boss was arrested because Amanda lied and said it was him who had killed Meredith. Tonight she was ordered to pay him £36k
 
LinasK said:
Well, I'm an American who believes that that American is Guilty of murdering her British roommate in Italy regardless of why she did it!
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Isabella said "some" Americans take the position that she was railroaded. Also, I think she stated she was reading other boards which were lambasting Italy for it's decision. I don't think she's directing her comments to all Americans or to everyone on this board.

Bottom line, however, we Americans have the reputation around the world as a racist nation. Modern Europeans were very appalled and confused by segregation/Jim Crow laws, the images of civil rights protesters being hosed by LE, etc.. So, that has shaped their sentiment.
On going news about the KKK, hate crimes, Susan Smith type incidents, that kind of thing, helps shape European's views, rightly or wrongly, that we would rather have some black guy accused than a young white girl from the U.S..
Add to that a reputation for arrogance and imperialist zeal that we have in other countries and it makes sense why people in other nations believe we would refuse to accept the ruling of any foreign government on an American's guilt or innocence, regardless of evidence. I can't speak for Isabella and am not trying to but I can see the what people in other countries view as the motivation behind American protests of AK's innocence.
 
annmarie62 said:
WOW! What a weird case- and trial. That being said, I do think Ms. Knox is guilty... too many things she did (or didn't do) just don't add up to innocence. Doing cartwheels at the police station? Is she INSANE?? She did nothing, imo, to help her own case- lying, covering up, false accusations relying on racism, etc. I do think it's a shame that the jury wasn't at all kept from news reports/tabloids, but... she wasn't in America, and she knew it. She was familiar with other cultures and should not have depended on the US to "save" her; it doesn't work that way. I feel so sorry for her family, but even more so for poor Meredith's. BTW, does anyone know if "26 years" in Italy means 26 full years? Is there early parole possibilities??
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Good question. I bet not!
 
I for one think that she did not get a fair trial, the evidence did not indicate her guilty of murder and a huge injustice has occurred. I guess living in America, I expect certain things to be followed for a trial, but that doesn't happen in Italy.

I think from the time the investigators said "case closed", she was screwed.
 
By Marc Ramirez
Seattle Times staff reporter
Amanda Knox will be in prison for up to two years while attorneys appeal her conviction, a process that will not begin for at least 90 days, Italian attorney Alessandro Canali said.
Lawyers for Knox and Raffaele Sollecito, her former boyfriend, both found guilty of murdering roommate Meredith Kercher, will have just 45 days to file an appeal after a side judge in the just-concluded trial publishes the court's decision. Judges take about three months to do so, but can request more time.
An Italian appeals trial is conducted the same as the first, complete with jury. More evidence can be presented or requested.
A newly appointed prosecutor could ask for acquittal. "The prosecutor on appeal is not bound by the actions of the prosecutor in the first case," said Canali, a foreign law consultant in Seattle who practices law in Rome.
Knox's 26-year sentence was actually a good sign, he said, considering prosecutors asked for life imprisonment.
In contrast, he noted, Rudy Guede — found guilty of murdering and sexually assaulting Kercher — opted for a "fast-track" trial, which defendants who believe they will be convicted choose in exchange for a sentence one-third of the maximum.
"She got four years less without the benefit of the short trial," he said. So really, "she got 50 years less. Someone on the jury thought she was not on the same level as Guede."
more at link: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2010428769_webknoxappeal05m.html
 
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