What Is the Defense Strategy?

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STATE v. MIZELL

Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions. . .
The State is incorrect, however, in its characterization of PTSD as diminished capacity evidence in this case.   We view the PTSD evidence offered in this case as state-of-mind evidence, quite analogous to battered spouse syndrome (BSS) testimony that has in fact been approved many times.   BSS testimony has been admitted to support a claim of self-defense.   See State v. Hickson, 630 So.2d 172, 173 (Fla.1993) (holding that “an expert can generally describe [BSS] and the characteristics of a person suffering from the syndrome and can express an opinion in response to hypothetical questions predicated on facts in evidence․”).  PTSD evidence, as offered in this case, is not inadmissible as diminished capacity evidence. . .
In this case, the trial court laid down five very specific conditions on the admissibility of PTSD evidence.   These conditions were designed to avoid the problems that have arisen in other cases.   Specifically, the court's order will prevent a trial scenario in which a psychologist may skillfully present the defendant's testimony by the backdoor, negating the State's right to cross-examination.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/fl-district-court-of-appeal/1188746.html

Obviously, this would not be his first go around with this defense!!

Woot! Good find. Reading it a little I did find the one hugely problematic element of it for the defense.

Defense counsel proposed to offer expert trial testimony from Dr. Harry Krop, a licensed clinical psychologist.   Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions.   The State objected to the prospect of such expert testimony and filed a motion in limine to prevent its admission.   The trial court denied the motion, outlining very specific conditions under which the defense would be able to offer the PTSD evidence:

1.  The Defendant must lay a predicate by testifying,

2.  Thereafter, Dr. Krop may testify as to the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

3. Dr. Krop may reveal the Defendant's alleged background but may not vouch for it.

4. Dr. Krop may not refer to the Battered Wife's Syndrome.

5. Dr. Krop may not offer an opinion as to the validity of self-defense in this case.

So here we have an established test for using the "state of mind" PTSD approach that mandates that the defendent take the stand before any such evidence may be presented. Oh that should be fun!
 
Caylee being the product of a rape is possibly the best (sad) idea anyone came up with. This has my mind spinning uncontrollably.

Casey is raped and becomes pregnant with Caylee. She denies and denies to herself that she is pregnant until the denial can no longer be hidden (her expanding stomach). Cindy confronts Casey about being pregnant and Casey tells her the whole story of the rape. Cindy doesn't believe Casey and even goes as far as blaming Casey for the rape (Casey's letters about Lee being the one to sexually abuse her... she always has a little bit of truth). Casey desperately wants nothing to do with Caylee and wants to give her up for adoption, but Cindy will have none of it and Casey is forced to have a child that she could never love... that when she looks at Caylee all she can see is the rape... the violence.... the rage... the hurt. When Casey murdered Caylee... she was actually murdering her rapist and that once she was rid of the harm that was done to her... she was free... hence the Beautiful Life and she never looked back.

IMO....Casey knows exactly who the father is of Caylee.
After seeing & talking to ------ at a party she broke down for an hour or so.

Every time she looks at Caylee she sees his face...A rejecting one.
 
She didn't want to look "bad" in her parents eyes? She financially raped Cindy blind for years! Sure, stealing isn't as bad as murder, but Casey could care less about her parents. She lied about so many things (graduation, work, etc...) and didn't care. She accused her parents of some awful things to her friends before any of this happened. Casey is hell bent on destroying her parents... she blames them for where she is at today. She is willing to torture them at this trial. So she doesn't care one bit how "bad" she appears to her parents.
 
Caylee being the product of a rape is possibly the best (sad) idea anyone came up with. This has my mind spinning uncontrollably.

Casey is raped and becomes pregnant with Caylee. She denies and denies to herself that she is pregnant until the denial can no longer be hidden (her expanding stomach). Cindy confronts Casey about being pregnant and Casey tells her the whole story of the rape. Cindy doesn't believe Casey and even goes as far as blaming Casey for the rape (Casey's letters about Lee being the one to sexually abuse her... she always has a little bit of truth). Casey desperately wants nothing to do with Caylee and wants to give her up for adoption, but Cindy will have none of it and Casey is forced to have a child that she could never love... that when she looks at Caylee all she can see is the rape... the violence.... the rage... the hurt. When Casey murdered Caylee... she was actually murdering her rapist and that once she was rid of the harm that was done to her... she was free... hence the Beautiful Life and she never looked back.

HOWEVER, there are witnesses from Casey's childhood which testify to Casey being a pathological liar all of her life. So they will not be able to target the rape as a source of the PTSD. They would have to say it stemmed from the Anthony's themselves and her childhood. I think that will be harder to do.
 
IMO....Casey knows exactly who the father is of Caylee.
After seeing & talking to ------ at a party she broke down for an hour or so.

Every time she looks at Caylee she sees his face...A rejecting one.

I know Casey knows. I am just trying to see what the defense can use in her defense. It's hard to defend a cold, calculated murderer... which I believe she is. I do not believe Caylee's death was an accident.

Are you saying Brandon Snow is Caylee's father? I thought that she had a miscarriage and that was why she broke down at the party?
 
Woot! Good find. Reading it a little I did find the one hugely problematic element of it for the defense.

Defense counsel proposed to offer expert trial testimony from Dr. Harry Krop, a licensed clinical psychologist.   Dr. Krop would testify that Mizell has been diagnosed with PTSD, and he would explain what PTSD is and how PTSD affects an individual's perceptions.   The State objected to the prospect of such expert testimony and filed a motion in limine to prevent its admission.   The trial court denied the motion, outlining very specific conditions under which the defense would be able to offer the PTSD evidence:

1.  The Defendant must lay a predicate by testifying,

2.  Thereafter, Dr. Krop may testify as to the Post Traumatic Stress Disorder.

3. Dr. Krop may reveal the Defendant's alleged background but may not vouch for it.

4. Dr. Krop may not refer to the Battered Wife's Syndrome.

5. Dr. Krop may not offer an opinion as to the validity of self-defense in this case.

So here we have an established test for using the "state of mind" PTSD approach that mandates that the defendent take the stand before any such evidence may be presented. Oh that should be fun!

I agree but believe the defense team will try to avoid putting her on the stand by arguing it isn't necessary since they're only using it as "state of mind" and not diminished capacity. . . Not that I believe it will fly with HHJP ~ but I think that's where they'll try to go with this. moo.
 
HOWEVER, there are witnesses from Casey's childhood which testify to Casey being a pathological liar all of her life. So they will not be able to target the rape as a source of the PTSD. They would have to say it stemmed from the Anthony's themselves and her childhood. I think that will be harder to do.

I am not saying that I believe that happened for one moment. I just think it is one of the better ideas brought up here by a member that the defense can use in Casey's defense. It does not mean a jury is going to buy it... which I don't think they will.
 
IMO....Casey knows exactly who the father is of Caylee.
After seeing & talking to ------ at a party she broke down for an hour or so.

Every time she looks at Caylee she sees his face...A rejecting one.

Agree - Beatrice - I think ICA at least has a good idea - but we are playing what if - what if ICA lies (no surprise here) and says yes, she was raped. If one of her mitigation people got the rape story out of her, and passed it on to Ann Finnell, then that may have precipitated the concept of this PTSS defense.

Certainly many stories the defense has come up with is enlarging on a word or two out of ICA's mouth. The point of that word or two being a lie seems to have nothing to do with it.
 
I am not saying that I believe that happened for one moment. I just think it is one of the better ideas brought up here by a member that the defense can use in Casey's defense. It does not mean a jury is going to buy it... which I don't think they will.

I know you don't believe it---didn't mean to imply that , sorry.

And I agree totally that it is the best defense so far. I HOPE they do not find a juror that will believe it, but people DO send Casey snack money. So you never know.
 
I agree but believe the defense team will try to avoid putting her on the stand by arguing it isn't necessary since they're only using it as "state of mind" and not diminished capacity. . . Not that I believe it will fly with HHJP ~ but I think that's where they'll try to go with this. moo.

But IF these lies and these 'ugly coping' behaviors are going to become part of the defense strategy, then they do not have to keep her off the stand. They may want her to testify because she can tell the jury how horrible PTSD is and how her life was so very hard. Maybe that is why she is so engaged in the testimony so far and takes so many notes. I bety she WANTS to testify because she knows everyone will believe her.
 
I know you don't believe it---didn't mean to imply that , sorry.

And I agree totally that it is the best defense so far. I HOPE they do not find a juror that will believe it, but people DO send Casey snack money. So you never know.

Oh, I know you weren't implying that. No need to say you're sorry.

Even if they find "one" juror to believe it, that doesn't mean that Casey goes free... which is a good thing. One juror will simply give Casey the mistrial she so desperately wants. Then we'll have to do it all over again.
 
One of the main side effects of 'ptsd' is sex and love addiction. The obsession with love and sex to the detriment of one's own daily life. So they may try and use Tony as a prop here as well. imo

But but but but did the defense not make a motion to exclude all the sex stuff w/ Tony R and TonE L? And did not the prosecution agree to limit inquiry to just the nature of the relationship? (Yeah, we had sex, but no details.)

So how do they get this in?

Did the defense shoot themselves in the foot again?

Does the defense have any feet left to shoot?
 
Yes, I agree it is the best possible "throw this one at the wall and see if it sticks" DT theories the defense could come up with. We are holding our breath to see if they actually will - but I'm not positive this is what they have got up their sleeves. Remember several posters came up with it, not the DT. :great:

Why not? Because it's clever - it's well thought out, it has some possibilities....it just doesn't sound like the DT - so maybe it's AF's influence.:waitasec:

Baez came up with SODDI and........well, soddi and.........:loser:
 
One of the main side effects of 'ptsd' is sex and love addiction. The obsession with love and sex to the detriment of one's own daily life. So they may try and use Tony as a prop here as well. imo

I've suffered from PTSD for over 5 years and been in therapy for it almost all that time. I have participated in 3 group therapy sessions with different people.
None of them showed any kind of excessive sexual behavior. They were mostly very withdrawn, like me. It was at the beginning of my therapy, and I didn't like talking about what happened to me (finding my son's body after he died) with others - I still relive it everyday.

I think that if the trauma that caused a person to have PTSD was sexual abuse, they might present those types of symptoms as a result, but I don't think it would be classified as PTSD.

I'm not a therapist, only a sufferer.
I guess a doctor could say that any behavior was a symptom of PTSD - they have varying opinions..
I'll try to remember to ask my therapist about it at my appointment this week.

Also, I don't think AF said they were claiming PTSD - I, along with others here - kind of assumed it because the Dr. they want bring in is a PTSD specialist. They could be claiming something different...maybe.

I also agree that the DT could be trying to use the Dr. as ICA's testimony. PTSD - at least on all my disability forms - is classified as a disorder, not mental illness.
They can't claim diminished capacity as that is not allowed in FL per what HHBP said at the hearing.

jmo
 
But but but but did the defense not make a motion to exclude all the sex stuff w/ Tony R and TonE L? And did not the prosecution agree to limit inquiry to just the nature of the relationship? (Yeah, we had sex, but no details.)

So how do they get this in?

Did the defense shoot themselves in the foot again?

Does the defense have any feet left to shoot?



:dunno:

:skip: :skip: :skip: :heartluv:
 
But but but but did the defense not make a motion to exclude all the sex stuff w/ Tony R and TonE L? And did not the prosecution agree to limit inquiry to just the nature of the relationship? (Yeah, we had sex, but no details.)

So how do they get this in?

Did the defense shoot themselves in the foot again?

Does the defense have any feet left to shoot?

The jury is not going to know about all the stuff the defense tried to get thrown out... the same way they will not know about all the stuff that would be thrown out. So I believe the defense has multiple stradegies based on what is coming in and what isn't coming in. So they will work around what they need to work around.

It's risky to not have one solid stradegy because I think the jury is going to think they are batty. I think they are simply going to try and prove to the jury that so many things are possible in this case... accident... someone else did it... Casey did it... but... but... but... she was a severely abused young woman... a tainted soul, if you will.

It's going to get really ugly.
 
Hmmm...If LE have the the name of Caylee's daddy then the rape is a no go, I believe at one point LE said they knew who the father was..if I could find where they said that!!! waaay back in 2008/2009
 
The jury is not going to know about all the stuff the defense tried to get thrown out... the same way they will not know about all the stuff that would be thrown out. So I believe the defense has multiple stradegies based on what is coming in and what isn't coming in. So they will work around what they need to work around.

It's risky to not have one solid stradegy because I think the jury is going to think they are batty. I think they are simply going to try and prove to the jury that so many things are possible in this case... accident... someone else did it... Casey did it... but... but... but... she was a severely abused young woman... a tainted soul, if you will.

It's going to get really ugly.

I think it's already very ugly.

Does anyone know if the SA can use the mental evaluation HHJS was looking at - in the early on video where he raised his eyebrows and looked startled or something? Does the SA have access to it and can they use it?
 
I've suffered from PTSD for over 5 years and been in therapy for it almost all that time. I have participated in 3 group therapy sessions with different people.
None of them showed any kind of excessive sexual behavior. They were mostly very withdrawn, like me. It was at the beginning of my therapy, and I didn't like talking about what happened to me (finding my son's body after he died) with others - I still relive it everyday.

I think that if the trauma that caused a person to have PTSD was sexual abuse, they might present those types of symptoms as a result, but I don't think it would be classified as PTSD.

I'm not a therapist, only a sufferer.
I guess a doctor could say that any behavior was a symptom of PTSD - they have varying opinions..
I'll try to remember to ask my therapist about it at my appointment this week.

Also, I don't think AF said they were claiming PTSD - I, along with others here - kind of assumed it because the Dr. they want bring in is a PTSD specialist. They could be claiming something different...maybe.

I also agree that the DT could be trying to use the Dr. as ICA's testimony. PTSD - at least on all my disability forms - is classified as a disorder, not mental illness.
They can't claim diminished capacity as that is not allowed in FL per what HHBP said at the hearing.

jmo

I am so very sorry for your loss and your trauma. I am glad that you were able to seek help for your situation. It must have been very difficult.

Thank you for sharing what you know about PTSD firsthand. I only know what I cut and pasted for various websites. Dr. Weitz apparently treats women who were sexually abused and act out in sexual ways. So that is why I specified that 'side effect.'

But I agree with you that 'anything' could get lumped into that diagnosis by the DT. I know we do not know for sure thay is what they have up their sleeve, but it seems pretty likely given the main players they recently brought into the mix. We will have to wait and see.

God Bless You and I hope you can find some peace in your life after all of the turmoil.
kate
 
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