NH NH - Maura Murray, 21, Haverhill, 9 Feb 2004 - # 8

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
My opinions only, no facts here:

I personally believe that Maura was abducted or voluntarily (but should not have) entered a vehicle where the dog or dogs lost her scent. Considering the time of year and the relative remoteness, I believe that the perpetrator was local or at least raised locally. I do not consider anyone officially named as a witness in this case to be a suspect regarding the ACTUAL criminal act, and trust me, I look very carefully at each person. The named witnesses are just tired of being hounded by the press and innumerable amateur sleuths and psychics that probably keep calling them at all hours.

Maura is a physically-fit woman and no punk kid or old timer would be able to push her around. I guess if I was asked who to look for, I would suggest a male in their early twenties to mid-thirties, raised in the local area but not necessarily a permanent resident at the time of the crime, and with a previous criminal record that is suggestive of harming a woman.

Bye the bye, I have posted a possible scenario in the Jamison family case tonight also, for those who are following that.

The McStay family case still remains a "three-pipe" problem for me (with apologies to Sherlock Holmes and his bad smoking habits). I am reviewing maps at the moment and smoking my curved pipe in the den. Watson is asleep as usual.
 
I see JR has visited FM abandoned house
Nov 4th blog:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

Sad scene to be sure. I won't draw any conclusions about the place since we don't know what it was like when MM was living there. What we see now bespeaks, if anything, of someone heartbroken IMO. Again, so sad...
 
Mr. Noatak said:
My opinions only, no facts here:

I personally believe that Maura was abducted or voluntarily (but should not have) entered a vehicle where the dog or dogs lost her scent. Considering the time of year and the relative remoteness, I believe that the perpetrator was local or at least raised locally. I do not consider anyone officially named as a witness in this case to be a suspect regarding the ACTUAL criminal act, and trust me, I look very carefully at each person. The named witnesses are just tired of being hounded by the press and innumerable amateur sleuths and psychics that probably keep calling them at all hours.

Maura is a physically-fit woman and no punk kid or old timer would be able to push her around. I guess if I was asked who to look for, I would suggest a male in their early twenties to mid-thirties, raised in the local area but not
necessarily a permanent resident at the time of the crime, and with a previous criminal record that is suggestive of harming a woman.

Bye the bye, I have posted a possible scenario in the Jamison family case tonight also, for those who are following that.

The McStay family case still remains a "three-pipe" problem for me (with apologies to Sherlock Holmes and his bad smoking habits). I am reviewing maps at the moment and smoking my curved pipe in the den. Watson is asleep as usual.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% on this theory (age of perp, local person, etc.). I still think it is possible that she had an accident or succumbed to the elements, but if she was abducted, your theory makes a lot of sense.
 
OldSteve said:
I see JR has visited FM abandoned house
Nov 4th blog:
http://mauramurray.blogspot.com/

Sad scene to be sure. I won't draw any conclusions about the place since we don't know what it was like when MM was living there. What we see now bespeaks, if anything, of someone heartbroken IMO. Again, so sad...
Click to expand...

As others have pointed out, we don't know who may have occupied the premises since Mr. Murray left it, or how long ago that was. IMO it has absolutely no bearing on anything.
 
I know everyone has their theories. Actually this is more of a thought than a theory. What if Maura is alive? What if Fred had found out sometime later? Maybe a year or more and Maura does not want to "come out"? Fred may feel the need to keep up the fight so to speak as to not make it look suspicious because he all of the sudden stopped looking or caring. Fred did feel as though Maura ran away in the beginning did he not and after some time he is now totally against any type of publicity and supposedly contacting her friends in hopes of having them not cooperate with Mr Renner. Now, Fred could feel that Mr Renners intentions are not honerable, but if I were him and this is just me I would have sat down with him made friends and "used" him to help find out what the heck happened to my daughter! I have no idea as to what happened to Maura, but I DO NOT believe that she got into a car willingly. I find it somewhat hard to believe that anyone would out run her to force her in a car.

I know a lot of people on here think that what ever Maura actions were before she disappeared have nothing to do with what happened to her, but I disagree that we should just ignore her actions up to the point of when she went missing. The rag in the tail pipe still bugs the heck out of me. In my opinion some one went to the trouble to stuff a rag up inside her tail pipe. This would would most likely stall a car that was running on 3 cylinders. I find it VERY hard to believe that Maura drove all that way with a rag stuffed in her tailpipe. Maybe Marua's accident had to do with her car stalling out going round a turn than from her drinking. Remember people that this was not just a girl who had a fender bender and disappeared. This was a girl who had many many serious life issues leading up to that accident. Two car wrecks within days, possibly pregnant, a cheating boyfriend I'm sure I am missing some things and there are probabley a few more that none of us know about. I really feel terrible for this girl. Personally I hope she is alive and well. Maybe she has had a child or two and doesn't ever want to have the media all over her life if one did find out she was alive. Maybe Mr Renner should look into whether Fred has done any traveling to Canada or anywhere else lately in the very small chance that if Maura is still alive and Fred goes and visits her on occasion. OK sorry for the long "thought" that I just had. lol
 
Thirty years ago, a woman who was an experienced distance runner and an Olympic calibre fencer was abducted and murdered while carrying groceries home in a nice neighborhood of Pittsburgh. Female joggers have been abducted and murdered in daylight, steps from their own homes, and while talking to their significant other on the phone. Maura had just had an accident that deployed her airbag and cracked the windshield ofher car. She had been driving. It was cold and dark and she was not familiar with the area. She may have been drinking. Any of these factors would make her more vulnerable to a male who might have seen an opportunity to abduct a woman. In the best of scenarios, woman are at a disadvantage if attacked by a larger male. And of course, if she was abducted, more than one person might have been involved.
 
telemag said:
I know everyone has their theories. Actually this is more of a thought than a theory. What if Maura is alive? What if Fred had found out sometime later? Maybe a year or more and Maura does not want to "come out"? Fred may feel the need to keep up the fight so to speak as to not make it look suspicious because he all of the sudden stopped looking or caring. Fred did feel as though Maura ran away in the beginning did he not and after some time he is now totally against any type of publicity and supposedly contacting her friends in hopes of having them not cooperate with Mr Renner. Now, Fred could feel that Mr Renners intentions are not honerable, but if I were him and this is just me I would have sat down with him made friends and "used" him to help find out what the heck happened to my daughter! I have no idea as to what happened to Maura, but I DO NOT believe that she got into a car willingly. I find it somewhat hard to believe that anyone would out run her to force her in a car.

I know a lot of people on here think that what ever Maura actions were before she disappeared have nothing to do with what happened to her, but I disagree that we should just ignore her actions up to the point of when she went missing. The rag in the tail pipe still bugs the heck out of me. In my opinion some one went to the trouble to stuff a rag up inside her tail pipe. This would would most likely stall a car that was running on 3 cylinders. I find it VERY
hard to believe that Maura drove all that way with a rag stuffed in her tailpipe. Maybe Marua's accident had to do with her car stalling out going round a turn than from her drinking. Remember people that this was not just a girl who had a fender bender and disappeared. This was a girl who had many many serious life issues leading up to that accident. Two car wrecks within days, possibly pregnant, a cheating boyfriend I'm sure I am missing some things and there are probabley a few more that none of us know about. I really feel terrible for this girl. Personally I hope she is alive and well. Maybe she has had a child or
two and doesn't ever want to have the media all over her life if one did find out she was alive. Maybe Mr Renner should look into whether Fred has done any traveling to Canada or anywhere else lately in the very small chance that if Maura is still alive and Fred goes and visits her on occasion. OK sorry for the long "thought" that I just had. lol
Click to expand...

Who didn't have some kind of drama going in their lives at age 21? IMO, we shouldn't forget that she did have enough of her act together to be on her university's honor roll. I really don't know what to think about her possible issues prior to her cracking up her dad's car. Sometimes, I think her actions before her disappearance may have been exaggerated, because we are seeking a reason for her disappearance and her trip to NH. Maybe it just comes down to her having been hormonal, upset with herself, and mad at the world for a few days. I do think it was possible she was abducted, but my theory is that she accepted a ride. I think she knew it was risky--she wasn't dumb, but I theorize that she took the risk to get away from the scene. However, I think it is also possible she had an accident while running or sucumbed to the elements. I would be very surprised if she was just hiding out somewhere. Anything is possible, but I have a hard time believing that she wouldn't contact someone, especially her mother. Her mother passed away from cancer a couple of years ago.
 
goodgirl65 said:
I kinda dismiss this possibility because i would think that if she was hit by a car some evidence oF that would have been found by now...I think its doubtful that if she did get hit that the driver would have taken her body away, unless of course she was still alive and the driver put her in the car, ostensibly to take her to hospital, but then she died on the way. The driver panicked, perhaps dumped her body; I would think more likely the driver would have either called 911 or just taken off from the scene.

JMO
Click to expand...

Your Quoting just about every word i said about this very thing. Her being hit by a car and then a few different theories about what happend right after that..I Said the same thing way back in the beginning Threads.
 
As to the rag in the tailpipe, maybe Maura made a stop somewhere not long before she got to the area where she had the accident, such as she maybe stopped at a convenience store for a snack, to use the restroom, etc. And maybe somebody there had his eye on her. He could have stuffed the rag in the tailpipe while she was inside, knowing the car would stall out a little ways up the road. Then all he had to do was come driving along later and "rescue" her. She didn't want the police on the scene, probably because she was at least somewhat under the influence, so if this guy was a normal-looking dude, non-threatening in appearance, who offered to take her somewhere up the road where she could get cell phone reception, she might have climbed in the car with him. (After all, one of the reasons Ted Bundy was so successful is because he was young, preppy, and good-looking.) He may have even known she'd been drinking because he could have cased out the car when he put the rag in. That way he would have known she'd be more likely to accept a ride and therefore avoid the police and a possible DUI. The main problem I see with this scenario is that her dad claimed the rag came from her own trunk. I do not understand her dad's explanation for the rag at all. I can't think why anyone would believe stuffing a rag up the tailpipe would help with any kind of automotive problems.
 
dogperson said:
As to the rag in the tailpipe, maybe Maura made a stop somewhere not long before she got to the area where she had the accident, such as she maybe stopped at a convenience store for a snack, to use the restroom, etc. And maybe somebody there had his eye on her. He could have stuffed the rag in the tailpipe while she was inside, knowing the car would stall out a little ways up the road. Then all he had to do was come driving along later and "rescue" her. She didn't want the police on the scene, probably because she was at least somewhat under the influence, so if this guy was a normal-looking dude, non-threatening in appearance, who offered to take her somewhere up the road where she could get cell phone reception, she might have climbed in the car with him. (After all, one of the reasons Ted Bundy was so successful is because he was young, preppy, and good-looking.) He may have even known she'd been drinking because he could have cased out the car when he put the rag in. That way he would have known she'd be more likely to accept a ride and therefore avoid the police and a possible DUI. The main problem I see with this scenario is that her dad claimed the rag came from her own trunk. I do not understand her dad's explanation for the rag at all. I can't think why anyone would believe stuffing a rag up the tailpipe would help with any kind of automotive problems.
Click to expand...

I totally agree that this is a very possible scenario. You would have to be a complete moron to stuff a rag up inside the tail pipe of a car running on 3 cylinders, sorry but come on.
 
I wonder if that rag was in her tailpipe days before she got into these car accidents. She could have had an exhaust leak, which maybe the reason her car didn't stall on her way up to NH. If someone stuffed it in her exhaust pipe at a gas station or at any of her other stops, the car should have stalled right away after she shifted into drive--not on the curve in NH (she wouldn't have got that far). I'm thinking that it maybe the actual reason her car was not running right in the first place and the reason she wanted a new one. I could be way off base, but the thought occurred to me. Someone could have put the rag in her tailpipe WEEKS before her ride up to NH. The rag would have definitely affected her car's performance. Perhaps, the "running on only 3 cylinders" was just a someone's guess and it was not from a thorough diagnosis of the car's problems.
 
Snipped:

telemag said:
I know everyone has their theories. Actually this is more of a thought than a theory. What if Maura is alive? What if Fred had found out sometime later? .......
Maybe Mr Renner should look into whether Fred has done any traveling to Canada or anywhere else lately in the very small chance that if Maura is still alive and Fred goes and visits her on occasion. OK sorry for the long "thought" that I just had. lol
Click to expand...

Your mind plays tricks on you when you run away - at least that's my experience. (Sorry to personalize here.)
As a young man I took off with another on a cross-country get away from family.
Funny, after a time you start to miss everyone - you just can't get them out of your mind... Maybe it was just me, but cannot see Maura being on the run for years... too much family left behind...
 
McSpy said:
I wonder if that rag was in her tailpipe days before she got into these car accidents. She could have had an exhaust leak, which maybe the reason her car didn't stall on her way up to NH. If someone stuffed it in her exhaust pipe at a gas station or at any of her other stops, the car should have stalled right away after she shifted into drive--not on the curve in NH (she wouldn't have got that far). I'm thinking that it maybe the actual reason her car was not running right in the first place and the reason she wanted a new one. I could be way off base, but the thought occurred to me. Someone could have put the rag in her tailpipe WEEKS before her ride up to NH. The rag would have definitely affected her car's performance. Perhaps, the "running on only 3 cylinders" was just a someone's guess and it was not from a thorough diagnosis of the car's problems.
Click to expand...

So many good posts to respond to -

Good point about how long the rag had been in the tail pipe... too late now to analyze, maybe not.... would have to check how much exhaust soot had build up on it... In fact if the rag were really clean would show it placed in pipe after car had be turned off...
The rag - was it simply placed my MM as a warning after car crashed? Was it visible if that's the case?
Using the rag to disable the car after it had stopped at the gas station by some seedy character... problems with that. Perp would have to have found it in the kit Fred had packed for her... Also, why do that, not knowing how far or where her car would stop. Simply following her car to remote spot and bumping into it or cutting off seems more likely. No signs of that.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
Thirty years ago, a woman who was an experienced distance runner and an Olympic calibre fencer was abducted and murdered while carrying groceries home in a nice neighborhood of Pittsburgh. Female joggers have been abducted and murdered in daylight, steps from their own homes, and while talking to their significant other on the phone. Maura had just had an accident that deployed her airbag and cracked the windshield ofher car. She had been driving. It was cold and dark and she was not familiar with the area. She may have been drinking. Any of these factors would make her more vulnerable to a male who might have seen an opportunity to abduct a woman. In the best of scenarios, woman are at a disadvantage if attacked by a larger male. And of course, if she was abducted, more than one person might have been involved.
Click to expand...

OT, but having read Pittsburgh is a good place to retire to, I'm always interested in things like this.... Also, as strong and fit as my spouse was back in the day when we ran at night, she was always says lets not jog here or there it was too isolated... thinking back, she was right!
 
I thought a rag in a tail pipe meant a suicide attempt...
 
minazoe said:
I thought a rag in a tail pipe meant a suicide attempt...
Click to expand...

I didn't think of that one. Would it work? Would it build up fumes in the car if you sat there for an extended period with all the windows rolled up? I've heard stories of tailpipes being blocked by snowdrifts, following an accident, where people have died from carbon monoxide while they sat in their cars with the motor running afterwards waiting for help. So it could be possible. I don't know a lot about auto exhaust systems. Following your line of thought, though, could she have been pushed beyond her limit with this accident on top of whatever else her problems were, and tried to make a suicide attempt there by the side of the road but had to abandon that plan when the bus driver came along?
I seem to recall seeing in Mr. Renner's blog that the rag was stuffed "way up in there" so it probably was not visible to other motorists if that's the case. If I were going to use a rag to prevent other motorists from hitting me in the dark, I would close one end of it into the trunk lid where it would be most visible from behind. That way it could hang down the back of the car at the level where another motorist's headlights would hit it. Putting it down low in the tailpipe would make it harder to see, plus the risk of the wind blowing it away if it was hanging out the end.
I just am not buying her dad's story of why the rag was in the tailpipe, unless for some reason he really believed a thing like that would help it run. Like maybe he didn't know a lot about cars and had heard that somewhere.
And if someone previous to that night stuffed the rag from her own trunk into the tailpipe, why did they do it and how did they have access to her trunk? Are we 100% certain this was ever her rag to begin with or something her dad said for some reason?
Just throwing random ideas out here. I actually have no concrete opinions on this case but wish I did. At first I really believed she ran on up the road, not realizing she was becoming hypothermic, crawling into a makeshift shelter and dying. But now I have my doubts.
 
In a case I found just last week, Steve Reed was listed as missing and his car was found. His remains were found months after an intial search only 100 feet away from there his truck had been discovered. With the dense wooded area, I wouldn't be surprised to find that Maura's remains may be right where she was last known to be, but she just hasn't been found yet. Hoping I am wrong!
 
yes, I feel like she may have fliped out when the car crashed and may have taken some pills along with booze and then stuffed the pipe...she may have become disoriented and wandered off...hypothermia and booze...deadly.
 
and another thought

Her Father was so bloody hard on her over the first accident...he feels responsible...thus intense denial.

I would like to have the sister testify with a grand jury under oath.

I think Maura was suicidal...and the big emotional phone call is something they don't want to discuss because they don't want responsibility for Maura's disappearance. And the sister will not implicate her father or herself for being part of the cause.

maybe Maura was pregnant or about to lose something very important to her and the trifecta of incidents were just too much for her.
 
With all the bits and pieces of information that have been uncovered in recent months about Maura's case, I still have not come across one shred of information that leads me away from the suicide theory.

I think Maura was headed that fateful Monday night to a hiking trail/mountain area by herself (not to meet anyone and not to start a new life).

I don't think the second wreck was either planned or staged, but I also don't think that second wreck would've been enough to change Maura's mind on completing whatever task she was setting out to complete.

She didn't have hardly any money, yet she drives a verified unreliable car almost three hours away from her campus. (with not even enough money to spend more than one or two nights in a motel)

Her search directions (Burlington, Berkshires, White Mountains) that were discovered off her computer hard drive and from hand written notes found in her car - all came from different areas not even that close to one another (first big clue that Maura had no specific destination in mind, yet a specific physical object destination (mountain, hiking trails). that is the common link between the three different areas Maura is known to mapquest or inquire about.

Who knows for sure what kind of drama was going on in Maura's life, but at her age at the time she went missing, things such as relationships weigh pretty heavy on a person.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 75 more.
Total: 3,504 (members: 76, guests: 3,428)

Online statistics

Members online
76
Guests online
3,428
Total visitors
3,504
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,284
Messages
17,966,658
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top