OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #4

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Oriah said:
<My initial feelings when learning about this case was voluntary disappearance by the family. But, then,I think they'd have to be criminal masterminds to set things up so well to pull this off & make it look like something nefarious happened to them. >

I am soooo with you on this.
I don't think they are/were criminal masterminds. Seems like there are a few people out there that are? But not many.
And I don't think the Jamisons were one of the few.
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A voluntary disappearance would most likely depend on help from others, others who might be a bit more acclimated to the realities involved in vanishing than would have been the Jamisons.

I'll hedge my bet a bit (or a whole bunch!) by defining "voluntary disappearance" to mean that the Jamisons willingly removed themselves from the area where they were last seen, with the intent of leaving the status quo behind; but it does not necessarily mean that any or all of the Jamisons are still alive today.
 
wfgodot said:
A voluntary disappearance would most likely depend on help from others, others who might be a bit more acclimated to the realities involved in vanishing than would have been the Jamisons.

I'll hedge my bet a bit (or a whole bunch!) by defining "voluntary disappearance" to mean that the Jamisons willingly removed themselves from the area where they were last seen, with the intent of leaving the status quo behind; but it does not necessarily mean that any or all of the Jamisons are still alive today.
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Ok, I'll bite here too. ;)
If you were going to voluntarily remove yourself and your family from somewhere...wouldn't you avoid a verifable last seen location- or at least space it out for as long a time frame as possible without arousing any suspicion?? I would.

Do we have a last seen location of each Jamison (either together or independent) prior to the last seen location of them all by the person on the mountain? That might be useful.
 
Soulmagent said:
I still think it was raining when the truck was drove in for the last time.
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Okay- so that puts us at...what day do you think the truck was driven in? I think it may have been driven in and out several times.
 
Oriah said:
Ok, I'll bite here too. ;)
If you were going to voluntarily remove yourself and your family from somewhere...wouldn't you avoid a verifable last seen location- or at least space it out for as long a time frame as possible without arousing any suspicion?? I would.
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If I were, or you were, to disappear secretly and voluntarily and to plan toward that end, yes, we would try to fulfill those dictates - verifiable location last seen, time frame concerns, etc. But you and I are not the Jamisons, who, according to a published report, saw spirits on the roof and inside their house, and sought to combat them with magic bullets, etc.

The Jamisons perhaps were seeking to leave the grid of logic itself.
 
wfgodot said:
If I were, or you were, to disappear secretly and voluntarily and to plan toward that end, yes, we would try to fulfill those dictates - verifiable location last seen, time frame concerns, etc. But you and I are not the Jamisons, who, according to a published report, saw spirits on the roof and inside their house, and sought to combat them with magic bullets, etc.

The Jamisons perhaps were seeking to leave the grid of logic itself.
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I agree.

But then again the statement about the spirits, demons, magic bullets etc...was made by the pastor of this church. Who it would seem is a believer in such. The belief structure of the church confuses me even more, because who know's what they were talking about? But that's neither here nor there.

I mean, let's suppose I was raised Catholic. I suppose I could say to the priest at my local church that I needed to go to confession because I needed to be forgiven for my sins, shortly before I disappeared. Then if someone asked this priest about my last conversation with him, he'd say "Well, this parishioner was recently seeking absolution for a sin they felt they committed." If someone had been murdered that I was associated with during the time frame of my disappearance- I can imagine that would make news.

Maybe these things just don't make a lot of sense to me in general, but I don't want to give them too much merit until I know the source itself.

*Bangs head on wall again.*

Which is why I'd like to see physical evidence of the Jamisons talking/acting/seeing/hearing etc these spirits. You know?
 
Oriah said:
I agree.

But then again the statement about the spirits, demons, magic bullets etc...was made by the pastor of this church. Who it would seem is a believer in such. The belief structure of the church confuses me even more, because who know's what they were talking about? But that's neither here nor there.

I mean, let's suppose I was raised Catholic. I suppose I could say to the priest at my local church that I needed to go to confession because I needed to be forgiven for my sins, shortly before I disappeared. Then if someone asked this priest about my last conversation with him, he'd say "Well, this parishioner was recently seeking absolution for a sin they felt they committed." If someone had been murdered that I was associated with during the time frame of my disappearance- I can imagine that would make news.

Maybe these things just don't make a lot of sense to me in general, but I don't want to give them too much merit until I know the source itself.

*Bangs head on wall again.*

Which is why I'd like to see physical evidence of the Jamisons talking/acting/seeing/hearing etc these spirits. You know?
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I think that the Jamisons had gone beyond the parameters of the belief system represented by the pastor, and that he spoke to investigators out of concern for their sanity. "Magic bullets" and "the Satanic bible" are not items resorted to by even the more extreme manifestations of the Christian faith.

Yes, I know what you mean. I regularly criticize OK law enforcement, and am not above doubting the word of a person of the cloth. But, in this case, after having followed the Jamison saga for months before the Sunday Oklahoman article, I wasn't surprised at all by the content of that article, and tend to accept it as true.
 
Thank you very much for the warm welcome. :hug:
I really enjoy reading all of your ideas about this strange case. So many good points and interesting theories. I hope LE is putting as much heart into this family as you all are doing.

Soulmagent said:
I still think it was raining when the truck was drove in for the last time.
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I agree with you. Again this is just my own views but reading about the areas/terrain they where driving and viewing the photos the condition of the truck seems to match up. The photos in my opinion show the truck had wide Mud Terrain tires which pick up more mud on wet dirt then all terrain tires. The deeper grooves allow for the mud to pack and there is a wider area for the mud to have to escape. My truck has wide mud terrains as well and they end up looking just like that until I hit the pavement and they have the chance to self clean.

What I find interesting is the reports from LE on their strange activity. If this is correct, if they did wander strangely at their home and seemed to have mental issues, they could have gotten lost in those woods. You don't need to go far. Head into the treeline just a small amount, turn around and you can't see where you started. Everything is the same and it's disorienting. If you walk in the wrong direction to find your way out you are SOL. You have to have your wits about you. It doesn't sound like either of these adults had that, if LE is correct.

The briefcase could have been dropped off anywhere they went that day. LE claims the truck was found at the second location on the GPS so they could have been anywhere before hand and dropped the case.

I have a thought, do any of you think the strange activity at home and decline of their mental states could be due to something toxic at the house? Black mold or something? I find it odd that both of them where acting weird.
 
MandyLeigh said:
Thank you very much for the warm welcome. :hug:
I really enjoy reading all of your ideas about this strange case. So many good points and interesting theories. I hope LE is putting as much heart into this family as you all are doing.



I agree with you. Again this is just my own views but reading about the areas/terrain they where driving and viewing the photos the condition of the truck seems to match up. The photos in my opinion show the truck had wide Mud Terrain tires which pick up more mud on wet dirt then all terrain tires. The deeper grooves allow for the mud to pack and there is a wider area for the mud to have to escape. My truck has wide mud terrains as well and they end up looking just like that until I hit the pavement and they have the chance to self clean.

What I find interesting is the reports from LE on their strange activity. If this is correct, if they did wander strangely at their home and seemed to have mental issues, they could have gotten lost in those woods. You don't need to go far. Head into the treeline just a small amount, turn around and you can't see where you started. Everything is the same and it's disorienting. If you walk in the wrong direction to find your way out you are SOL. You have to have your wits about you. It doesn't sound like either of these adults had that, if LE is correct.

The briefcase could have been dropped off anywhere they went that day. LE claims the truck was found at the second location on the GPS so they could have been anywhere before hand and dropped the case.

I have a thought, do any of you think the strange activity at home and decline of their mental states could be due to something toxic at the house? Black mold or something? I find it odd that both of them where acting weird.
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Hi Mandy, and welcome again! A fresh look at these kinds of cases is awesome. :)

The wandering in a lost scenario I completely get and it's not unfamiliar at all for LE or SAR to encounter in a missing persons case. But then where the heck would they have wandered?
If you gps the location on the truck, the picture of Madyson, the surrounding grid, and the elevation changes involved- it doesn't seem likely that they would have been able to really wander very far where sar would not have found them.
But then again...wouldn't be the first time by far that sar didn't find someone where they 'should' be. If there was serious inclement weather involved then I could possibly see it. But there wasn't at the time, and with three people...jeez.
Again, idk.
Beating my head on a wall AGAIN!

The Jamisons are somewhere, that's for sure.
 
The jamions were seen by many other people the day they went missing. IIRC, the neighbors in Eufaula saw them pulling out that morning. They stopped at a the same gas station both days and the same lady rung them up both days, she remembers seeing all 3 of them, they got lost along the way and asked for directions to county line road and that lady remembers all 3 of them, and last but not least the guy that lives near the property who spoke with them for 45 minutes that morning. IIRC the gas station was the only charge made on the credit card. But there is nothing saying they didn't stop some where else and pay cash. I am not sure if that helps.

Welcome MandyLeigh! It is nice to have a set of fresh eyes on the case. Most of us are recovering from concussions after repeated head beating against walls.
 
Oriah said:
Hi Mandy, and welcome again! A fresh look at these kinds of cases is awesome. :)

The wandering in a lost scenario I completely get and it's not unfamiliar at all for LE or SAR to encounter in a missing persons case. But then where the heck would they have wandered?
If you gps the location on the truck, the picture of Madyson, the surrounding grid, and the elevation changes involved- it doesn't seem likely that they would have been able to really wander very far where sar would not have found them.
But then again...wouldn't be the first time by far that sar didn't find someone where they 'should' be. If there was serious inclement weather involved then I could possibly see it. But there wasn't at the time, and with three people...jeez.
Again, idk.
Beating my head on a wall AGAIN!

The Jamisons are somewhere, that's for sure.
Click to expand...

Ha, I agree with the head on the wall thing. It's a real brain twister. And creepy with all the talk of haunted houses and strange happenings in the home. :alien:

You know what I think really messes things up? Time. There was such a huge period of time that went by where nothing was done, no one was looking for them. Then when SAR is finally called, it was cut short due to hunting. I am not comfortable that all possibilities have been looked into. I doubt all mines and sink holes where looked into. I just can't shake that possibility that something is out there. Some piece of evidence.

I also can't forget that there is a child lost here. Whatever these two parents where doing a little girl went down with them. That fact breaks my heart.
 
mtrooper said:
The jamions were seen by many other people the day they went missing. IIRC, the neighbors in Eufaula saw them pulling out that morning. They stopped at a the same gas station both days and the same lady rung them up both days, she remembers seeing all 3 of them, they got lost along the way and asked for directions to county line road and that lady remembers all 3 of them, and last but not least the guy that lives near the property who spoke with them for 45 minutes that morning. IIRC the gas station was the only charge made on the credit card. But there is nothing saying they didn't stop some where else and pay cash. I am not sure if that helps.

Welcome MandyLeigh! It is nice to have a set of fresh eyes on the case. Most of us are recovering from concussions after repeated head beating against walls.
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Thanks mtrooper. I actually meant prior to that fateful day (and the day before when they went looking for the property.) Like- say, three days before that.
And speaking of gas...we still don't know how much gas was in the truck when found, correct?
 
MandyLeigh said:
Ha, I agree with the head on the wall thing. It's a real brain twister. And creepy with all the talk of haunted houses and strange happenings in the home. :alien:

You know what I think really messes things up? Time. There was such a huge period of time that went by where nothing was done, no one was looking for them. Then when SAR is finally called, it was cut short due to hunting. I am not comfortable that all possibilities have been looked into. I doubt all mines and sink holes where looked into. I just can't shake that possibility that something is out there. Some piece of evidence.

I also can't forget that there is a child lost here. Whatever these two parents where doing a little girl went down with them. That fact breaks my heart.
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Madyson is what breaks my heart too.

And couldn't agree with you more- there is something on that mountain that can help solve this case.
 
Oriah said:
[/B]

Madyson is what breaks my heart too.

And couldn't agree with you more- there is something on that mountain that can help solve this case.
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I agree 110%.

I can't help but feel that way. Sherilyn and Bobby had the opportunity to make choices. If they made good or bad decisions that's on them, but Madyson had no choice in the matter. There were obvious problems at home, enough problems that Sherilyns son left to go live with his dad (along with other reasons). Leaving Madyson without a big brother. There were problems at school, bad enough that they un-enrolled her and wanted to home school her. Her grandma and grandpa were fighting and divorcing, at one point Star moves in with Bobby and Sherilyn and Bob Sr. threatens to kill all of them except Madyson. Who did this poor child have to go to? It seems like there was turmoil all around her. It makes my heart ache.
 
A couple of random thoughts here ...

Anyone remember how long after the Jamisons were last seen before they were officially reported missing and LE started looking for them? I'm curious about the security/surveillance camera at the Jamison house. To have captured the Jamisons leaving and not coming back, a tape would have run out after a period of time, and if it was continual looping, images of their leaving would have been recorded over.

On another note, if Sheriff Beauchamp is correct that the money is thought to have come from SSA (which should be easily verifiable through that agency), that would appear to discredit Star's claims that Bobby removed that amount from her safe, and about he and Sherry getting a divorce. There is nothing to indicate that Bobby or Sherilyn had filed for divorce, and in fact they were looking at buying property. IF there was $$ in Star's safe, was it Bobby's settlement money from Bob Sr? If so, that money does not appear to be accounted for.
 
sillybilly said:
A couple of random thoughts here ...

Anyone remember how long after the Jamisons were last seen before they were officially reported missing and LE started looking for them? I'm curious about the security/surveillance camera at the Jamison house. To have captured the Jamisons leaving and not coming back, a tape would have run out after a period of time, and if it was continual looping, images of their leaving would have been recorded over.

On another note, if Sheriff Beauchamp is correct that the money is thought to have come from SSA (which should be easily verifiable through that agency), that would appear to discredit Star's claims that Bobby removed that amount from her safe, and about he and Sherry getting a divorce. There is nothing to indicate that Bobby or Sherilyn had filed for divorce, and in fact they were looking at buying property. IF there was $$ in Star's safe, was it Bobby's settlement money from Bob Sr? If so, that money does not appear to be accounted for.
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I wondered the exact same thing about the surveillance video, which is why I'd like to know the brand and model; and it sure would be nice if the FBI would release it. And also why I wanted to know when they were last seen, before when they were last seen. ;)

Thank you for that astute post.
 
sillybilly said:
A couple of random thoughts here ...

Anyone remember how long after the Jamisons were last seen before they were officially reported missing and LE started looking for them? I'm curious about the security/surveillance camera at the Jamison house. To have captured the Jamisons leaving and not coming back, a tape would have run out after a period of time, and if it was continual looping, images of their leaving would have been recorded over.

On another note, if Sheriff Beauchamp is correct that the money is thought to have come from SSA (which should be easily verifiable through that agency), that would appear to discredit Star's claims that Bobby removed that amount from her safe, and about he and Sherry getting a divorce. There is nothing to indicate that Bobby or Sherilyn had filed for divorce, and in fact they were looking at buying property. IF there was $$ in Star's safe, was it Bobby's settlement money from Bob Sr? If so, that money does not appear to be accounted for.
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Glad you posted this.
 
The Jamisons were never really reported missing persay. When the truck was found they sent LE out to the house for a well being check. Then they were able to tell that the Jamisons had not been home for some time. But no one ever reported them missing.

From what I understand of the video system, it recorded on a computer hard drive that was located in the bedroom closet. I don't know much about the system itself. Honestly, I don't know if it would record over itself or not. Sorry I can't be much help on that one.

As far as SSA, Star was trying to get the information from them, but they can be lets just say less than helpful. If LE has the reciepts from SSA, then they already have the confirmation they would need. I am not sure what is going on with the whole money in the safe thing. I do know that there marriage was up and down. It really would not suprise me if divorce came up a lot, and then for what ever reason they changed their mind. It sounds like they were pretty upbeat and were looking for property at the time they went missing. So they must have patched things up. All speculation on my part, for what its worth.
 
mtrooper said:
The Jamisons were never really reported missing persay. When the truck was found they sent LE out to the house for a well being check. Then they were able to tell that the Jamisons had not been home for some time. But no one ever reported them missing.

From what I understand of the video system, it recorded on a computer hard drive that was located in the bedroom closet. I don't know much about the system itself. Honestly, I don't know if it would record over itself or not. Sorry I can't be much help on that one.

As far as SSA, Star was trying to get the information from them, but they can be lets just say less than helpful. If LE has the reciepts from SSA, then they already have the confirmation they would need. I am not sure what is going on with the whole money in the safe thing. I do know that there marriage was up and down. It really would not suprise me if divorce came up a lot, and then for what ever reason they changed their mind. It sounds like they were pretty upbeat and were looking for property at the time they went missing. So they must have patched things up. All speculation on my part, for what its worth.
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Thanks mtrooper.

Couldn't resist commenting on the 'well-being check' ;)

I can only hope that was an actual well being check. Not an 'LE-style' well-being check, lol.
 
mtrooper said:
Sorry I am coming in a little late here tonight. As far as the dog goes, I know that the people who found the truck on the mountain thought that it was in pretty bad shape. They kept it for a few days before they met up with Starlet to give it to her. The guy that watched the dog became pretty attached to her in that time. Anyways, I will call tomorrow and ask him what shape the truck was in. I know when I was out there in May the truck was in pretty good shape, but Colton had already cleaned it out. I am not sure, but I would think that the residual stink would still be lingering. But then again, if the dog didn't have anyway to eat (I know there was a soft sided cooler on the floor that she was getting water from) then it might not poop. The only way I can make it fit in my head logistically is if the dog was just too small to reach the dash where the chips were. She is a pretty small dog. Think how tortureous that would be, starving and food was just out of reach. It is kinda hard to tell in the pictures, it looks like a lot of stuff got shuffled around the first night, so who knows what was where the next day when they took the pictures.

The windows of the truck were rolled up, and yes they broke them to get in, with concern for the dog. They knew that they had been up on the 8th, and then the truck being found, they assumed the dog/truck had been there the whole time.

Another thought (which I really don't need any more than I already have) is that Bobby's set of keys have not been found. Despite news reports stating the keys were found in the ignition....I guess if someone was a dog lover they could bring the dog food if they had Bobby's keys. including Bobby. I did think at one point that maybe the Jamison's were camping out in one of the numerous cabins that are up there, but the FBI did check the cabins out...and I am not sure Sherilyn could resist the temptation to spray paint somthing while she was there. I kinda feel like it was her calling card, for lack of a better term.

I know that they had looked at other properties, I wonder if she left her calling card at any of them. There were cans of spray paint in the back of the truck, and IIRC in the cab of the truck as well.

I guess what gets me is why not leave the window cracked for the dog? I ALWAYS crack my window. And Bobby had window flares on all 4 windows, so why wouldn't you...Its not like rain could get in.

And I also thought about this earlier. I know the weather was HOT on the 8th (80's), but I wonder if it would be cooler on the mountain because of the elevation. Oriah do you recall what the elevation is up there? And how much of a difference would that make in the temperature?

Sorry for the novel.
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Ha! Pulling old post out of nowhere.

I was rereading( in a very non specific order) I happened to see this post about the neighbor having the dog. What?? Why??

If the dog was near death and went to the vet then how did the neighbor get to care for it for a few days? The dog would have been impounded and adpoted if not claimed for 30 days or picked up by next of kin because the dog is the property of the Jamisons and was found in their truck. Not lost or roaming free. The LE agency would have known to call in animal control to get the dog the care it needed. So why did the neighbor have this dog that could be a clue in a case.
 
Dog did not go to vet, she stayed with someone on the mountain until star could make it to meet them. I guess I never even thought about animal control.

Thanks for the insight. I will see what I can find out.
 
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