trial thread: 3/23/2012

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If CM or TLM said money was owed to them by anyone how would the police be able to prove that? Do you really believe they went around questioning drug buyers and asked them, "Hey do you owe so and so for some ripped off drugs?" And of course they answer, "Sure". They testified already that G had gone back several times for more drugs from CM without TM with him.

I would think it would be very important to establish whether that debt was to the person who murdered Victoria. No judge is going to rule that the information cannot be disclosed if that is the case. It's not like they've kept CM and TLM's dealing a secret. No one asked TM if that debt was to CM or TLM. They didn't have to ask her who it was to, just to establish that it was not to CM or TLM. This is Derstine's defence for the reason for the whole thing. Why didn't he ask?

MOO
 
With regards to my previous post about the relationship between TLM and KS, I have to wonder if there is a connection to this:

London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP

Derstine asks McClintic about altercation she had with another inmate on Jan. 31 of this year.

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

McClintic asked for an inmate, then started beating on her. McClintic was "confronting her" about things she had said.

Adrian Morrow‏@AdrianMorrow

McClintic says the other inmate had been "saying things about her."

This was about two weeks after TLM confessed to her counselor that she was the one who murdered Tori and not MTR. Did she confess after all this time because this inmate had ratted her out and the counselor called her on it? Was the beating retaliation for the "things she said"? Could this inmate have been KS? It all seems to fit in my head.

JMO
 
TLM was given the mandatory sentence of life. She is ineligible for parole for 25 years. She can apply for parole after 25 years, but it would be unlikely parole would ever be granted by the parole board.

If she were to be granted parole, she would be closely monitored for the rest of her life, and have to report to a parole officer. Any breach of parole conditions and she would be returned to custody.

She will never be "free" again..........and it is unlikely she will ever be out of custody.

The only hope she has is a transfer to a medium or minimum security prison after many years of proving that she has rehabilitated herself and is worthy of trust.

What happens to MTR depends on the results of this trial.
 
MR said in his police interview that TLM did some babysitting, TLM had babysitting on her resume. It's not a stretch to surmise that TLM told MR that she was babysitting Tori.

MOO

Let's hope that when not if she gets out the baby sitting is not the first job she looks for.
 
My daughter's little one has been to two different schools and I pass by two other schools each morning on my way to work. At each school the driveway to the parking lot is blocked off by pylons and a guard both at the beginning and end of each school day. There are large signs also that are placed at the entrances saying "Student Safety Zone - No Vehicles Allowed". This is done each day to make sure that no students crossing the parking lot are in danger of being hit by a parent picking up their child with their car. Lots of parents park on side streets near the schools, walk to get their children and take them back to their parked vehicle.

Some children at the little one's school, including her, exit out the back of the school and cut across the school field via pathway to an opening in the fence ... and another street closer to their homes.

It therefore makes sense to me that TM may have directed MR to park away from the school because you can't get in the driveway to the parking lot anyways.

What is also interesting is that all of the children line up outside the school at dismissal time until their parent or babysitter comes up to the line and lets the teacher know that they are there ... the teacher then gives permission to the child to leave the line - not until. When I pick up, the teacher is notified ahead of time that I will be there - and the little one cannot leave the line until she has identified me as "BamaBamaBama!" lol! This rule is in effect for all jr and senior kindergarten and grades one and two children. Thank goodness!

JMO

I don't know if this is the practice at all schools, Cha, but it made me remember something that's been nagging at me.

If Tori went back into the school to get her earrings, she surely wouldn't have been one of the first kids to get out and probably not the only one who wasn't picked up by an adult. If the plan was for TLM to abduct the first child she saw (randomly), are we to believe that Tori, who was later getting out than a bunch of others, was the first one? Why wasn't TLM hanging around there much earlier when there were more kids to pick from? You can see in the video and stills released as evidence that Fyfe is just about deserted by the time they're seen walking together. Where are all the other kids? :waitasec: I cannot wrap my mind around that Tori was not specifically targeted.

JMO
 
:clap::clap::clap:

Originally Posted by Kamille
Sorry but no one so far has indicated that the supposed $400 "drug debt" of JG was owed to CM or TLM. And I would have thought Derstine would have established that when he had TM on the stand?

MOO

No sense posting tweets all day long if nobody is going to read and absorb them ... seriously .... tweet from TM testimony followed by tweet from TLM testimony both regarding the drug debt. TM says "someone" while TLM indicates "others" .... so some other ... Carol perhaps????




@AdrianMorrow
Tara McDonald says James Goris did have a drug debt: he ripped someone off for 20 or 30 pills worth $400. She had no debts.
__________________
The jury is returning. Ready to resume.

Derstine asks McClintic about providing theories of the crime. McClintic tells Det. Smyth, "James or Tara, I only met Tara like twice


RaffertyLFP: McClintic said she heard rumors about Stafford and McDonald. She said they did not owe her any drug money but they may owe money to others

Derstine asks McClintic about statements she made in video about Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford
 
Country roads are not usually that rough, and I am pretty sure there was actually a laneway back into that field, it wasn't necessarily rough. JMO

The sideroad they were on is paved, to get to the field, they turned onto a tractor path laneway.
 
MOO

I think MR stayed in touch with TLM'S mother while TLM was in custody was because he could have access to TLM'S home to remove evidence and keep track into what was going on with TLM through CM.
 
That's right, together. But they weren't together after April 12th. She was in and he was out. JMO

(BBM)

I'm aware of that. My links are in response to what I bolded "no hammer, no coats, none of Tori's clothes. All while she's in juvie."

So, not "all", probably not even any. According to my links, at least the hammer, a coat, and other clothing were discarded at the car wash before TLM was in juvie. But, of course, this all depends on which part of TLM's story one chooses to believe. All we know for certain is that none of these items have ever been found, as stated by the Crown.

JMO
 
There have been a few posters asking recently whether or not TLM and MR (if convicted) will be designated as a Dangerous Offender. As you can see from the following excerpt from Wikipedia, the answer is no and maybe ... the bolding is mine, since TLM has a first degree murder conviction under her belt, and with MR we shall see how the jury decides.

I sincerely hope that someone pursues such a designation for TLM - I don't like to wish bad on anyone, but hopefully the designation will not fall thru the cracks...



wikipedia.org/wiki/Dangerous_offender

In Canadian criminal law, a convicted person who is designated a dangerous offender may be subjected to an indeterminate prison sentence, whether or not the crime carries a life sentence, but this does not apply to convictions of first degree murder, second degree murder, high treason, and treason.[1] The purpose of the legislation is to detain offenders who are deemed too dangerous to be released into society because of their violent tendencies, but whose sentences would not necessarily keep them incarcerated under other legislation, such as the Correctional and Conditional Release Act. Under subsection 761(1) of the Criminal Code, the Parole Board of Canada is required to review the case of an offender with a dangerous offender label after seven years, and parole may be granted as circumstances warrant, but the offender would remain under supervision indefinitely. After the initial review, the Parole Board must conduct subsequent reviews every two years.[2] According to Corrections Canada, on average 24 dangerous offenders are admitted to the Canadian prison system each year. Paul Bernardo is one well-known dangerous offender. Canadian courts also have the option of designating convicts "long term offenders". A hearing is held after sentencing, and, if a judge rules the accused is likely to re-offend after release, a 10-year period of community supervision is required after the sentence is completed.
 
MOO

I think MR stayed in touch with TLM'S mother while TLM was in custody was because he could have access to TLM'S home to remove evidence and keep track into what was going on with TLM through CM.

This is possible. Which brings me back to the question of why he didn't remove TLM's journal with all that incriminating "script" of what she was going to say if she was questioned by LE. If he helped her write it, as she claims, surely the first thing he'd get rid of would be that journal. If he didn't know where it was, he could have asked her. Why was the notebook found by LE weeks after MR had chances to remove it? IMO, it's because he knew nothing about it. She wrote that all by her lonesome. Yet another lie by a pathological liar.

The clothes he lent her were also found by LE. Not nearly as incriminating as that journal, though. As his "girlfriend", having some of his clothes would be explainable. Her alibi? Not so much.

JMO
 
TLM was given the mandatory sentence of life. She is ineligible for parole for 25 years. She can apply for parole after 25 years, but it would be unlikely parole would ever be granted by the parole board.

If she were to be granted parole, she would be closely monitored for the rest of her life, and have to report to a parole officer. Any breach of parole conditions and she would be returned to custody.

She will never be "free" again..........and it is unlikely she will ever be out of custody.

The only hope she has is a transfer to a medium or minimum security prison after many years of proving that she has rehabilitated herself and is worthy of trust.

What happens to MTR depends on the results of this trial.



Here is the article I read previously that said she may be able to get parole after only 15 yrs
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/12/09/16486156.html
 
I'll let you look for that, Nettie, but this should be considered: TLM listed her sexual orientation on her TAGGED profile as "bi".

http://www.tagged.com/profile.html?uid=5410657570

Her best friend in detention was another inmate named Shipway, to whom she address a lot of gory letters that were read aloud in court.



Without a doubt, this is the same girl who was arrested for murder in August 2010.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2010/08/13/15012626.html

She liked to dress in men's clothing. As to how deep the relationship was between TLM and Shipway, you be the judge.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=508220848

Some background on this woman if anyone is interested:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/06/03/18234851.html

JMO

So TLM is self-admittedly bi .... not surprised actually since many inmates will turn to members of their own sex for comfort let's say and TLM had been incarcarated in juvie off and on for most of her teenage years.

Thanks for the links .... wow! Shipway and TLM were like peas in a pod ....

Here is an interesting sentence ... keeping in mind that this is Shipway's first offence in big people court

Shipway, who sat quietly and with little expression, was sentenced to five years in prison for stabbing Nicholas, 23, who died in the parking lot of the Second Stage housing complex for women in south London on Aug. 10, 2010.

She got FIVE YEARS for murder!!! Manslaughter mind you .... but TLM got LIFE.

This is also interesting - there were two men charged with her as accessories:

In March, Doxtator and Doxtator-Ireland each received the equivalent of two-year sentences for accessory to manslaughter.

In other words, they got off with time served....Great article - Shipway's life in many ways parallels TLMs.

JMO
 
This is possible. Which brings me back to the question of why he didn't remove TLM's journal with all that incriminating "script" of what she was going to say if she was questioned by LE. If he helped her write it, as she claims, surely the first thing he'd get rid of would be that journal. If he didn't know where it was, he could have asked her. Why was the notebook found by LE weeks after MR had chances to remove it? IMO, it's because he knew nothing about it. She wrote that all by her lonesome. Yet another lie by a pathological liar.

The clothes he lent her were also found by LE. Not nearly as incriminating as that journal, though. As his "girlfriend", having some of his clothes would be explainable. Her alibi? Not so much.

JMO

About that journal, if she really didn't know who Tori was when she abducted her, why the need to write it down? Wouldn't that be an easy one to remember?

MOO

AM980.ca‏@AM980_Court

McClintic wrote that she didn't know Tori Stafford on another page, was "trying to drill it" into her head.
 
Here is the article I read previously that said she may be able to get parole after only 15 yrs
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Crime/2010/12/09/16486156.html

Thanks for the link! Yup, that faint hope provision .... which I hope she never comes up for! I am praying that someone makes an application to have her designated as a Dangerous Offender because it is not automatic or mandatory in a Murder One conviction!!! We don't ever want TLM out wandering the streets again - keeping in mind that there was a warrant out for her arrest for a parole violation (failure to keep a court-ordered psychiatric appointment!) at the time she murdered TS.

Having a Dangerous Offender designation now would make sure that there is no faint hope for her of getting out after only 15 years, or 25 years for that matter, and in the unlikely event that she does attain her freedom that she is very carefully monitored for the rest of her life.

If this designation has not already been applied for, it is my opinion that a petition should be started to ensure that the designation is obtained ASAP!!! We do NOT want this to fall through the cracks!!!

The purpose of the legislation is to detain offenders who are deemed too dangerous to be released into society because of their violent tendencies, but whose sentences would not necessarily keep them incarcerated under other legislation
 
I am just listening to this MTR Interview, and I am just floored with the fact that he sat there and had that interview with LE, knowing full well Victoria was murdered, since Derstine has admitted that MTR "helped" TLM dispose of Victoria.

He immediately started spinning the story about TM, knowing full well "the missing girl" was dead.

Wow.

:goodpost: WG! Pretty sick eh?! Especially when he supposidly didn't murder Tori, he was just the horrified taxi driver. Wonder what Derstine really thinks? :what: He's getting paid no matter what the out come is, am I right?
 
Originally Posted by Kamille
Sorry but no one so far has indicated that the supposed $400 "drug debt" of JG was owed to CM or TLM. And I would have thought Derstine would have established that when he had TM on the stand?

MOO

No sense posting tweets all day long if nobody is going to read and absorb them ... seriously .... tweet from TM testimony followed by tweet from TLM testimony both regarding the drug debt. TM says "someone" while TLM indicates "others" .... so some other ... Carol perhaps????




@AdrianMorrow
Tara McDonald says James Goris did have a drug debt: he ripped someone off for 20 or 30 pills worth $400. She had no debts.
__________________
The jury is returning. Ready to resume.

Derstine asks McClintic about providing theories of the crime. McClintic tells Det. Smyth, "James or Tara, I only met Tara like twice


RaffertyLFP: McClintic said she heard rumors about Stafford and McDonald. She said they did not owe her any drug money but they may owe money to others

Derstine asks McClintic about statements she made in video about Tara McDonald and Rodney Stafford

Just a thought: Is JG attending this trial?
 
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