Shootin' From the Lip--Part 3

Hey, everybody.

I decided to start this thread because I've reached what can only be referred to as the final straw. Ever since I started studying this case (way back before my voice had fully changed), I've been bombarded relentlessly with the line that there's no way a mother could do what was done to JB. Well, as if we NEEDED another example as to the fallacy of that argument, there was a case earlier this week in Ohio that really set me off:

http://www.19actionnews.com/story/2...-1-year-old-elaina-steinfurth-takes-plea-deal

In a nutshell, an Ohio woman named Angela Steinfurth and her boyfriend Steven King Jr killed the woman's 18-month-old daughter Elaina and tried to hide her body inside the garage. But it's the details that made me start this thread. Just a few points:

--The mother threw the girl against a wall because she couldn't stand the crying. This inflicted life-threatening injuries.

--In defiance of the claim that a mother's natural reaction would be to seek help, Steinfurth and King apparently decided that this was cause for sexual activity. (That REALLY leaped out at me.)

--Almost a day later, when the boyfriend realized that the girl was near death, instead of calling for help, he smothered her to death and hid her in a box out in the garage. They then proceeded to lead the police and public on a wild goose chase.

When I learned about this one, I went into a rage. This case flies directly in the face of a lot of claims the Ramseys and their supporters have hung their hats on. And to those people, I ask this question: how many innocent little angels have to die?! Because as far as I'm concerned, the Ramseys and their propaganda ministers are partly to blame for Elaina's death, as well as the deaths of Caylee Anthony and a host of others. Why? Because they've exposed one of the dirtiest, most dangerous secrets of American justice: that even if you ARE guilty, someone out there will be soft enough, dumb enough, or just flat bitter enough at law enforcement to believe you. And when that person is a juror or a lawyer agitating for appeals and acquittals, God help the victims. I can't help but wonder how many "parents" have killed their children because they thought, "Hey! So-and-so got away with it! Why can't I?"

Also, I usually don't bring personal disputes into the conversations here on WS, but I'll make a limited exception this one time, because I think it's necessary. And in case anyone thinks I'm doing this purely out of pride or ego, there is a method to my madness. Recently, my theory about what happened to JBR was derided as, and I quote, "pure fantasy" without a shred of fact behind it. To those people I would say this: what happened to Elaina is pretty much what I think happened to JBR, and IT is DAMN SURE not fantasy! It happened!

And on a personal note, I would not have spent FIVE YEARS of my life and $1000+ of my own money so people could read "fantasy." And I DAMN WELL wouldn't think of charging them for it!

This Dragon is breathing fire!

SuperDave,

I hear you. I know your book isn't fantasy. I am so upset by this case right now that I think I need to just walk away. It's just too much.

As RDI's we know we are held up to different standards and that is not fair. Our sources are never good enough. Never mind that they come from the investigators...We need the case file in order to be credible. Even if we had the case file, we would be told how wrong we are. We just can't win...

Hang in there. We got you here!

IDI get away with stating scenarios and what not without any shred of evidence to back it up and cling to some tiny DNA evidence that even the DA who exonerated the Ramsey's stated may not even be from the killer. The dismiss anything and everything that those who were close to the case have said by saying things like "well….he was out to get the Ramsey's from the get go, so his opinions don't matter." It IS frustrating because there is SO MUCH that points to RDI. Justice will probably never be served for JB because the R's have gotten people to buy their cockamamy IDI claims.

If I see the letters DNA again, I might have to run away...LOL

Hey Dave:

Just pointing out a little tidbit of a common denominator between the Steinfurth baby and JBR---and it's this: there was a heart drawn on JBR's hand and there was a heart drawn on the box they found baby Steinfurth in.

Strange and sad. If I had to guess, this points to the *mothers*.


moo

SuperDave,

Thank you. Thank you for your commitment towards finding justice for JonBenet, and for seeing through the many attempts made by the Ramsey defense team to spin & alter the true facts of the case. Your voice has always been one of the strongest on the forum, and I believe you have the patience of a saint-- I really cant remember any occasion where you've gotten angry or disrespectful towards someone holding a different pov..

Where can I buy a copy of your book? Im sorry if this info has already been posted; Ive searched but havent been successful, & Im so looking forward to reading it!!

I'm frustrated to the point of ignoring the JBR forum altogether for a while. I cannot abide willful ignorance in the face of facts and evidence, simply because the 'believer' doesn't WANT it to have been an R that committed this crime. Heck, I know *I* don't want to believe a family member, who is supposed to love, protect, and care for the little children, could ever murder OR cover up the murder of their baby. It hurts my heart to think of, but I know without a doubt based on FACTS and EVIDENCE combined with the outlandish behavior of the R's that it's true. ONE of them killed (or mortally injured) that baby girl, and then they all proceeded to hide that crime.

Rageface.

ATasteOfHoney said:

Hey Dave:

Just pointing out a little tidbit of a common denominator between the Steinfurth baby and JBR---and it's this: there was a heart drawn on JBR's hand and there was a heart drawn on the box they found baby Steinfurth in.

Strange and sad. If I had to guess, this points to the *mothers*.


moo

Click to expand...

Investigators in the Caylee Anthony case also believe that a little red heart sticker was placed over the mouth area on the bags she was put in.

renah said:

SuperDave,...Where can I buy a copy of your book?...Im so looking forward to reading it!!

Click to expand...

Ditto.

P.S. Lemme know if I outta formally introduce myself before jumpin' in on this here bandwagon.

Welcome to the forums!!

Tawny said:

I'm frustrated to the point of ignoring the JBR forum altogether for a while. I cannot abide willful ignorance in the face of facts and evidence, simply because the 'believer' doesn't WANT it to have been an R that committed this crime. Heck, I know *I* don't want to believe a family member, who is supposed to love, protect, and care for the little children, could ever murder OR cover up the murder of their baby. It hurts my heart to think of, but I know without a doubt based on FACTS and EVIDENCE combined with the outlandish behavior of the R's that it's true. ONE of them killed (or mortally injured) that baby girl, and then they all proceeded to hide that crime.

Rageface.

Click to expand...

I feel what you're saying, but have to remind myself that the "believer" IMO...may be just that and who am I to talk them out of "lala land", where parents (especially well connected wealthy parents) don't ever harm their children. If that's where they want to be, let them stay there.

I've been following this case since I first read an article in 1997 Vanity Fair. I believe there's a thread back in the archives here somewhere with a link to it. Eye opening. And some people (IDI) were offended by the article because an LE leaked the info that created it.

Some people will NEVER be satisfied by any amount of evidence.

And welcome to MeanDonnaJean as well. I hope you aren't too mean!

TroyinTX said:

...and cling to some tiny DNA evidence that even the DA who exonerated the Ramsey's stated may not even be from the killer....

Click to expand...

This thought hit me last week or so about the miniscule samples of 2 males/1 female DNA found underneath JBR's fingernails:

The entire family was at a dinner party Christmas night. There may have been other kids there both male & female that JBR was playing with. With the way that kids....like little kids who use their fingers/hands to wipe their snotty little noses...chase/grab/pinch/tag/scratch, etc. each other while running around on a holiday high, perhaps that fingernail DNA resulted from some good ol' fashioned kids-with-a-winter-cold harmless fun.

We have been told that after the dinner party JBR fell asleep in the car on the way home and was then carried upstairs to bed. Since she WAS half asleep at that point we can probably assume that she did NOT wash up nor take a bath/shower before PR put on her nightclothes and tucked her in. So JBR went to sleep with unwashed hands/body. Also, I believe we can safely assume that perhaps some, or perhaps even all of the ADULTS at that party might have been DNA tested, but doing DNA testing on a bunch of little KIDS? I highly doubt it.....but, I could be wrong. It sure wouldn't be the first time in my 57 years here on this earth ;-)

And if we REALLY wanna spin this scenario outta control, since JBR probably DIDN'T bathe before bedtime and there WAS a "mixed presence of male DNA" from the blood sample found in her underwear, who knows whether any adult(s) at that party had any one-on-one "alone time" with JBR. Hey, ya never know. Nothing surprises me anymore about this case.

And lastly, I do wonder about one thing:

Does anyone know of any other child kidnappings/homicides that occurred in the Boulder area subsequent to, and even more importantly, strikingly similar to JBR's? Hmmmmm, none ya say?

Well then, so much for PR's theory about a baby killer on the loose

Tawny said:

Welcome to the forums!!

Click to expand...

Was that welcome directed at lil' ol' ME, Tawny?

If so then, I THANK YOU KINDLY!

CherCher said:

And welcome to MeanDonnaJean as well. I hope you aren't too mean!

Click to expand...

And I thank YOU as well, CherCher.

I only get mean if and when I have to

MeanDonnaJean said:

This thought hit me last week or so about the miniscule samples of 2 males/1 female DNA found underneath JBR's fingernails:

The entire family was at a dinner party Christmas night. There may have been other kids there both male & female that JBR was playing with. With the way that kids....like little kids who use their fingers/hands to wipe their snotty little noses...chase/grab/pinch/tag/scratch, etc. each other while running around on a holiday high, perhaps that fingernail DNA resulted from some good ol' fashioned kids-with-a-winter-cold harmless fun.

We have been told that after the dinner party JBR fell asleep in the car on the way home and was then carried upstairs to bed. Since she WAS half asleep at that point we can probably assume that she did NOT wash up nor take a bath/shower before PR put on her nightclothes and tucked her in. So JBR went to sleep with unwashed hands/body. Also, I believe we can safely assume that perhaps some, or perhaps even all of the ADULTS at that party might have been DNA tested, but doing DNA testing on a bunch of little KIDS? I highly doubt it.....but, I could be wrong. It sure wouldn't be the first time in my 57 years here on this earth ;-)

And if we REALLY wanna spin this scenario outta control, since JBR probably DIDN'T bathe before bedtime and there WAS a "mixed presence of male DNA" from the blood sample found in her underwear, who knows whether any adult(s) at that party had any one-on-one "alone time" with JBR. Hey, ya never know. Nothing surprises me anymore about this case.

And lastly, I do wonder about one thing:

Does anyone know of any other child kidnappings/homicides that occurred in the Boulder area subsequent to, and even more importantly, strikingly similar to JBR's? Hmmmmm, none ya say?

Well then, so much for PR's theory about a baby killer on the loose

Click to expand...

There are five unsolved murders in Colorado of little girls between ages 4-9. They are:

Melissa Bennett: 1984: Killed during home invasion along with her mother and father
Cherelle Morehouse: 1984: Killed during arson along with her sister
Tracy Neef: 1983: Abducted and murdered after her mother dropped her off at school
Sarah Skiba: 1999: She went missing along with her father and his employee. Their bodies were never found, but LE found evidence indicating they are dead, and it's now a homicide investigation
and of course, JonBenet.

MeanDonnaJean said:

Ditto.

P.S. Lemme know if I outta formally introduce myself before jumpin' in on this here bandwagon.

Click to expand...

Hi, MeanDonnaJean! (I like that name!) It's considered polite to introduce oneself, but it's not necessary.

As to the question, the book's not available yet. I'm due to speak to the publisher's layout manager any time now.

CherCher said:

I feel what you're saying, but have to remind myself that the "believer" IMO...may be just that and who am I to talk them out of "lala land", where parents (especially well connected wealthy parents) don't ever harm their children. If that's where they want to be, let them stay there.

Click to expand...

I used to think that, too, CherCher. But when Casey Anthony walked free, something snapped in my brain.

Some people will NEVER be satisfied by any amount of evidence.

Click to expand...

That is one of the sad truths of American justice, CherCher: no matter how strong the evidence is, SOMEONE out there will believe you. It's practically a cottage industry:

--Mumia Abu-Jamal

--Leonard Peltier

--Dzhokar Tsarnaev

and the list goes on and on. I guess you can add JR and PR to that list.

I did not even consider her coming into contact with a bunch of other little kids who would never have been tested (who would even think to do that?) and subsequently having their DNA transfer to her. Didn't even occur to me.

tweezybird said:

Investigators in the Caylee Anthony case also believe that a little red heart sticker was placed over the mouth area on the bags she was put in.

Click to expand...

Excellent point, tweezy! So that makes three connections of a "heart" in death: Caylee, JBR, and the Steinfurth baby.

So very sad indeed....and very "telling".

:twocents: