Similarities to other Cases. Melinda Duckett, Diane Downs and more

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You are correct only one was killed. One was paralyzed. The one that was paralyzed was the one old enough to testify.

Yes, the summary was wrong. And I fell asleep halfway through! DOOH!! It was fascinating to see her talk...just like KC. Laughing while re-enacting what happened. :furious:
 
Thank you, Nancy, the interview on whether Diane was a psychopath or not was interesting. Describes KC big time IMO

I agree, as far as the definition of a sociopath, ICA fits those descriptions, IMO..

Which her mother, CA has stated from the start. ICA is a pathological liar and sociopath..and momma should know best! JMHO

Justice for Caylee
 
You are correct only one was killed. One was paralyzed. The one that was paralyzed was the one old enough to testify.

Christie was the oldest of the children (9 at the time) and the one that testified that her mother was the one that shot them. Danny was 3 when the shootings occurred and he's the one that was paralyzed from the chest down. It was the middle child (age 7 - can't remember her name) that died. That's the way I understand it, anyway. The prosecutor ended up adopting Christie and Danny.

It was a most compelling program and I definitely see a lot of parallels between Diane Downs and KC.
 
Cheryl was the one that died..

.she is the one Diane describes with blood gushing from her mouth...and then says...I was hurt too..."I couldn't tie my damn shoes for..." I can't remember how long...I wanted to slap her face...just like when KC gets that smug little giggle....
 
IIRC the three children were around 8, 7, & 3 yrs old. The 7 year old died & the 3 year old was paralyzed. It was the oldest child who testified against her.

I missed this 20/20. I wish I would have seen it. Small Sacrifices was the first true crime book I ever read. Does anyone know if it's online?

You can watch the full episode online here. ABC usually makes full episodes available a few hours after the west coast broadcast :)
 
Just finished watching the 20/20 episode....I have even less doubts in my mind of KC and her Narcissistic, sociopathic, behavior.

And the letters...Rebecca, Dianes daughter by birth alone....wrote copius letter...I wonder if we were to look at some of them if they would compare to KC's

Starting out with normal things...then something said that is way out there...

or just the flip-flop back and forth between Caylee and football and really not acting like she lost her daughter...and that someone took that adorable girl and killed her...she is more concern about getting phone numbers or making sure her blouse is open or closed or whatever she is doing...

I don't think KC has anymore empathy in her than Diane does....but KC is kept quieter than Diane...
 
You can watch the full episode online here. ABC usually makes full episodes available a few hours after the west coast broadcast :)

That was a powerful show. Diane and Casey are very alike in my opinion, both really scary sociopaths.

Becky seems like an amazingly strong woman. I wish her all the best.
 
Their are aspects of the aforementioned cases that do remind me of KC's case. Obviously there are a few caveats:
1) KC's case is similar in a lot of respects to Susan Smith's case. Both women claimed their child/ren were abducted by a person of a different race. KC claimed that a hispanic nanny named Zanny whom she knew fairly well had done the deed. Susan claimed a black male carjacked her and left with her kids in the car. But apart from the false abduction story line this is where the two cases separate ways. Susan immediately reported her children "missing." KC didn't report Caylee "missing" by her own admission for 31 one days. Susan when confronted with repeated interrogation and story inconsistencies eventually fessed up to the crime and led authorities to her babies' watery grave. KC has doggedly stuck to the same "the nanny took her" story regardless of whether certain details have changed (the park vs. the Sawgrass or Zanny alone vs Zanny and her sister Sam). KC has claimed to have been abused sexually by two male relatives (an outcry I totally do not believe in the slightest) and Susan Smith did also claim to have been sexually abused by a male relative (an outcry that did receive substantial consideration at trial during the mitigation phase). Both women however, did seem to look at their children as a burden and a detriment to their social life particularly with men.

I mentioned Susan Smith because it is the most similar to the KC case as some of the others. There is a great book by a sketch artist (who did the unibomber sketch) who attempted several times to meet with Susan Smith during the critical time when the children were thought merely missing/carjacked by a stranger and was turned away multiple times. Many people connected to the case, including AMW, thought it odd that Susan refused to meet with the very people who could help find her children.

What KC totally reminds me of (and as always she is entitled to the presumption of innoncence under our laws. I don't have to believe she is innocent but she is entitled) is the men of late, whose wives just go missing. Like that Peterson guy (not Scott--though Scott reminds me a lot of KC too) or that Joshua Powell guy (who is also not charged with anything but whom I believe knows damn well what happened to his missing wife).

The Joshua Powell story has elements of the bizarre and not making much of the sense...much like KC's proven lies. Josh claims he took his children camping in the dead of night (a Sunday night no less when he is supposed to work on Monday in a few short hours) in freezing tempatures and low and behold comes home to find his wife "missing." The same wife who appparently was actively involved in marriage counseling and was coincidentally looking to leave the marriage before she "vanishes"

I don't know what that means...but KC's crime (I believe she murdered Caylee and disposed of her remains and concocted this whole ridiculous story all on her own) reminds me more of the men who kill their wives...dispose of the body (more cleverly than she did) and who escape being charged with a crime until said remains are found. KC just wasn't as clever in the disposal or in her behavior. Also, most of the men in this situation typically report their wives missing immediately so as to deflect suspicion off of themselves. This is where KC's immaturity and sense of entitlement created the opposite set of circumstances. She didn't report it because she didn't care. She lives in the moment and if ever held to task she would just shirk the responsibility like she always has (stealing, lying, graduation from highschool, getting pregnant, working, etc...). I truly believe she thought that eventually Cindy, George, Lee ect...were just going to wake up one morning and go, "Caylee who?" and KC would be free to go about her "business" whatever that truly is.

Sorry for all of the long commentary.

Hey fellow WS's!!!! Finally back after about a month. Long story.
 
Their are aspects of the aforementioned cases that do remind me of KC's case. Obviously there are a few caveats:
1) KC's case is similar in a lot of respects to Susan Smith's case. Both women claimed their child/ren were abducted by a person of a different race. KC claimed that a hispanic nanny named Zanny whom she knew fairly well had done the deed. Susan claimed a black male carjacked her and left with her kids in the car. But apart from the false abduction story line this is where the two cases separate ways. Susan immediately reported her children "missing." KC didn't report Caylee "missing" by her own admission for 31 one days. Susan when confronted with repeated interrogation and story inconsistencies eventually fessed up to the crime and led authorities to her babies' watery grave. KC has doggedly stuck to the same "the nanny took her" story regardless of whether certain details have changed (the park vs. the Sawgrass or Zanny alone vs Zanny and her sister Sam). KC has claimed to have been abused sexually by two male relatives (an outcry I totally do not believe in the slightest) and Susan Smith did also claim to have been sexually abused by a male relative (an outcry that did receive substantial consideration at trial during the mitigation phase). Both women however, did seem to look at their children as a burden and a detriment to their social life particularly with men.

I mentioned Susan Smith because it is the most similar to the KC case as some of the others. There is a great book by a sketch artist (who did the unibomber sketch) who attempted several times to meet with Susan Smith during the critical time when the children were thought merely missing/carjacked by a stranger and was turned away multiple times. Many people connected to the case, including AMW, thought it odd that Susan refused to meet with the very people who could help find her children.

What KC totally reminds me of (and as always she is entitled to the presumption of innoncence under our laws. I don't have to believe she is innocent but she is entitled) is the men of late, whose wives just go missing. Like that Peterson guy (not Scott--though Scott reminds me a lot of KC too) or that Joshua Powell guy (who is also not charged with anything but whom I believe knows damn well what happened to his missing wife).

The Joshua Powell story has elements of the bizarre and not making much of the sense...much like KC's proven lies. Josh claims he took his children camping in the dead of night (a Sunday night no less when he is supposed to work on Monday in a few short hours) in freezing tempatures and low and behold comes home to find his wife "missing." The same wife who appparently was actively involved in marriage counseling and was coincidentally looking to leave the marriage before she "vanishes"

I don't know what that means...but KC's crime (I believe she murdered Caylee and disposed of her remains and concocted this whole ridiculous story all on her own) reminds me more of the men who kill their wives...dispose of the body (more cleverly than she did) and who escape being charged with a crime until said remains are found. KC just wasn't as clever in the disposal or in her behavior. Also, most of the men in this situation typically report their wives missing immediately so as to deflect suspicion off of themselves. This is where KC's immaturity and sense of entitlement created the opposite set of circumstances. She didn't report it because she didn't care. She lives in the moment and if ever held to task she would just shirk the responsibility like she always has (stealing, lying, graduation from highschool, getting pregnant, working, etc...). I truly believe she thought that eventually Cindy, George, Lee ect...were just going to wake up one morning and go, "Caylee who?" and KC would be free to go about her "business" whatever that truly is.

Sorry for all of the long commentary.

Hey fellow WS's!!!! Finally back after about a month. Long story.

Missed you! Glad to see you haven't permanently wandered off like some others I enjoyed reading. Welcome back! :dance:
 
On another thread about pictures of Caylee, coco puff wrote this:

How can any juror look at any of these photos and remember that KC wrote to her inmate friend in jail that she is kind of glad that Caylee is dead so she doesn't have to live in this horrible world (paraprase)....... Yet two letters later, she says see wants to get pregnant at the same time with said inmate friend. truly unbelievable....
(thanks for the post coco puff!)

What KC wrote to her jail friend reminds so much of Diane. KC saying that Caylee is better off because she doesn't have to live in this world is just like Diane saying her kids are the lucky ones and shes the unlucky one. KC talking about getting pregnant some day is like how Diane did get pregnant because conceiving babies is just so easy. It's as if neither one of them has any concept of the miracle and responsibility of bringing a new life into the world. I think that babies are just another possession to these two women like a new toy to use and then discard. They're both sad, sorry excuses for women, IMO. And just like Diane, I bet that KC will never admit to anything, take responsibility for her actions or show any remorse whatsoever.
 
Missed you! Glad to see you haven't permanently wandered off like some others I enjoyed reading. Welcome back! :dance:

:woohoo: Thanks. Just dealing with some health issues (minor but required traveling and many tests and biopsies) and a computer that was infiltrated by the win32 virus. Nasty little bugger.

I was reading through this thread though and there are certainly some similarities between this case and other cases.

With some glaring caveats:
1. None of the accused waited a full month to tell anyone anything.
2. Most women accused of killing their children while many used an intruder/stranger story eventually tried some type of mental defect/insanity.

I would tend to think that because KC didn't come forward and because she is still not taking any responsibility for what she knows and did...it is because as many have said she lives in her own world. She lives in the moment. She, I believe, truly thinks she has fans all over the world...that she is loved, popular and famous (not notorious or infamous) and that by fall of next year she will be tripping the life fantastic on the beaches of Miami...

I don't think that there has ever been a case, though, where a mother (KC) has so thoroughly forgotten her own child...like a discarded cigarette butt thrown out of a car window on a road trip. KC's lack of affect, while not indicative of insanity, is disturbing...when it comes to Caylee.

When she got on the phone with the 911 operator (clearly being forced to speak to the operator by Cindy) she spoke about Caylee as though you would a telephone solicitor you hung up on, "Yeah...I tried looking for her...it was stupid...uh...yeah...my daughter is missing...yeah a little girl...oh have a told you about my tiny hands and great breasts? No...I haven't seen my kid...hope she is okay...do you have Tony's number?" Naturally, this is not what KC said...clearly, if you have seen the transcripts...but it is what the general feel of what she said...obviously I took liberties with it...but still..sounds just like her from her own words and letters.
 
And not sure if with your troubles you've had the opportunity to read some of the jailhouse transcripts, but ICA really struggles when trying to find common ground with Robin, who is distraught about being separated with her children.

ICA will say things like - I miss my Cays and think of her, but I might make myself start crying and I wonder what's for lunch last week we had some kind of mystery meat you should just eat junk food like I do I don't know how I would survive in here without my bean dip.

Of course I am adlibbing here, but you get the drift. Robin was truly despondent about not being with her children. ICA's thoughts of Caylee were of less value to her than her lunch or her junk food.

I think she's going to have a lot of years to think about what's for lunch and no more worries you might miss it because you have to appear at a hearing to try to save your life.
 
Their are aspects of the aforementioned cases that do remind me of KC's case. Obviously there are a few caveats:
1) KC's case is similar in a lot of respects to Susan Smith's case. Both women claimed their child/ren were abducted by a person of a different race. KC claimed that a hispanic nanny named Zanny whom she knew fairly well had done the deed. Susan claimed a black male carjacked her and left with her kids in the car. But apart from the false abduction story line this is where the two cases separate ways. Susan immediately reported her children "missing." KC didn't report Caylee "missing" by her own admission for 31 one days. Susan when confronted with repeated interrogation and story inconsistencies eventually fessed up to the crime and led authorities to her babies' watery grave. KC has doggedly stuck to the same "the nanny took her" story regardless of whether certain details have changed (the park vs. the Sawgrass or Zanny alone vs Zanny and her sister Sam). KC has claimed to have been abused sexually by two male relatives (an outcry I totally do not believe in the slightest) and Susan Smith did also claim to have been sexually abused by a male relative (an outcry that did receive substantial consideration at trial during the mitigation phase). Both women however, did seem to look at their children as a burden and a detriment to their social life particularly with men.

I mentioned Susan Smith because it is the most similar to the KC case as some of the others. There is a great book by a sketch artist (who did the unibomber sketch) who attempted several times to meet with Susan Smith during the critical time when the children were thought merely missing/carjacked by a stranger and was turned away multiple times. Many people connected to the case, including AMW, thought it odd that Susan refused to meet with the very people who could help find her children.

What KC totally reminds me of (and as always she is entitled to the presumption of innoncence under our laws. I don't have to believe she is innocent but she is entitled) is the men of late, whose wives just go missing. Like that Peterson guy (not Scott--though Scott reminds me a lot of KC too) or that Joshua Powell guy (who is also not charged with anything but whom I believe knows damn well what happened to his missing wife).

The Joshua Powell story has elements of the bizarre and not making much of the sense...much like KC's proven lies. Josh claims he took his children camping in the dead of night (a Sunday night no less when he is supposed to work on Monday in a few short hours) in freezing tempatures and low and behold comes home to find his wife "missing." The same wife who appparently was actively involved in marriage counseling and was coincidentally looking to leave the marriage before she "vanishes"

I don't know what that means...but KC's crime (I believe she murdered Caylee and disposed of her remains and concocted this whole ridiculous story all on her own) reminds me more of the men who kill their wives...dispose of the body (more cleverly than she did) and who escape being charged with a crime until said remains are found. KC just wasn't as clever in the disposal or in her behavior. Also, most of the men in this situation typically report their wives missing immediately so as to deflect suspicion off of themselves. This is where KC's immaturity and sense of entitlement created the opposite set of circumstances. She didn't report it because she didn't care. She lives in the moment and if ever held to task she would just shirk the responsibility like she always has (stealing, lying, graduation from highschool, getting pregnant, working, etc...). I truly believe she thought that eventually Cindy, George, Lee ect...were just going to wake up one morning and go, "Caylee who?" and KC would be free to go about her "business" whatever that truly is.

Sorry for all of the long commentary.

Hey fellow WS's!!!! Finally back after about a month. Long story.

I hope you're feeling better!
I agree with what you've written-- I didn't know about Susan Smith's refusal to meet with a forensic sketch artist!-- very interesting. That definitely reminds me of Casey's refusal to meaningfully assist investigators while Caylee was "missing."

And I also see the similarities between Casey and men like Josh Powell. I read the book
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Erased-Missing-Women-Murdered-Wives/dp/0787996394"]Erased: Missing Women, Murdered Wives[/ame] by Marilee Strong and the killers profiled simply wanted to erase or delete their loved ones once they were no longer useful to them, or to cover up an unplanned homicide because they didn't want to deal with the aftermath/consequences. They not only wanted the spouse gone, but they don't want to be bothered by the pesky investigators and the annoying concern/grief of others. Definitely reminded me of Casey.
 
I think I have had waaay to much time while I have been sick..but watch Diane in the interviews in the above link...

then...

If you dare...

watch this one of CA

http://www.wftv.com/video/18149829/index.html

not making conclusions here...just saying...

Whoa. Cindy's intonation and speaking style really do sound a lot like Diane Downs. Odd. I forgot how grating that particular Cindy interview was. eek!
 
I hope you're feeling better!
I agree with what you've written-- I didn't know about Susan Smith's refusal to meet with a forensic sketch artist!-- very interesting. That definitely reminds me of Casey's refusal to meaningfully assist investigators while Caylee was "missing."

And I also see the similarities between Casey and men like Josh Powell. I read the book
Erased: Missing Women, Murdered Wives by Marilee Strong and the killers profiled simply wanted to erase or delete their loved ones once they were no longer useful to them, or to cover up an unplanned homicide because they didn't want to deal with the aftermath/consequences. They not only wanted the spouse gone, but they don't want to be bothered by the pesky investigators and the annoying concern/grief of others. Definitely reminded me of Casey.

TY! Very wonderfully put. ITA.

517qs2Hr5dL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg


The book is called Portraits of Guilt by Jeanne Boylan. She attempted on a few ocassions to meet with Susan Smith and was turned away. The chapter in the book on this is fascinating. I recommend it for anyone interested in this aspect of true crime.

I do tend to think that Casey operates more like male killers than female killers. The big reason: lack of an insanity plea...She if anything reminds me of Scott Peterson or Joshua Powell. Probably more Scott than JP since he has not been charged with anything...yet. The lies. The narcissism. The lack of the remorse. The actions not fitting with the verbal...all similar to Scott.
 
IIRC, Diane Downs didn't not enter an insanity plea...she is still proclaiming her innocence.

Her escape, she said was to find the killer...

So maybe both DD and KC are more like men killers.

But I think the biggest reason is the detachedness(is that a word)....the coldness...the not really in touch with reality
 
IIRC, Diane Downs didn't not enter an insanity plea...she is still proclaiming her innocence.

Her escape, she said was to find the killer...

So maybe both DD and KC are more like men killers.

But I think the biggest reason is the detachedness(is that a word)....the coldness...the not really in touch with reality

ITA! That was my main point...you just put it more succinctly...:)

I do think of KC and perhaps DD as well as being more like their male counterparts in this instance. I remember reading an FBI study back in 2005 and (will look for a link ya'll to post) and it said men and women were fairly even in the murder category (like 30-31%) and that crimewise...women tended to commit the crime of shoplifting and murder as regularly as the men.

What made me think of KC as being more like a male...were comments in one of the interviews with an ex-bf...that said sexually she tended to respond more like a male...little or non-existent foreplay before the act and then after the act jumping into her clothes and leaving...not an after the act snuggler. This does not mean to suggest that any one person who acts like this is more like a male or that all males are like this or that anyone who doesn't like foreplay or snuggling is a certain way...I am just looking at KC as a whole and she tends to behave more or less like her male counterparts in this arena...

OJ...still looking for the "real" killer(s).
Scott Peterson's parents are still trying to get him off of death row. Proclaiming his innocence while going down the proverbial financial tubes...remind you of anyone you know?
Joshua Powell is doggedly sticking to his story of camping on Sunday, in the dead of night, in freezing temps with two very small children...

I wonder if there are any somewhat recent cases of men that fit KC's case better, I just can't think of the one that pops into my brain...it was a cop...a recent story...but he even eventually led cops to his girlfriend's body...one of many GF's even though he was married. In this case, the baby was left home alone after he took the GF from the house...I think her mother found the child after he/she had been alone in the house for like two days or so...though I agree there are elements of the DD and Susan Smith cases that do fit...
 
TY! Very wonderfully put. ITA.

517qs2Hr5dL._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-sticker-arrow-click,TopRight,35,-76_AA300_SH20_OU01_.jpg


The book is called Portraits of Guilt by Jeanne Boylan. She attempted on a few ocassions to meet with Susan Smith and was turned away. The chapter in the book on this is fascinating. I recommend it for anyone interested in this aspect of true crime.

I do tend to think that Casey operates more like male killers than female killers. The big reason: lack of an insanity plea...She if anything reminds me of Scott Peterson or Joshua Powell. Probably more Scott than JP since he has not been charged with anything...yet. The lies. The narcissism. The lack of the remorse. The actions not fitting with the verbal...all similar to Scott.

Thank you for mentioning both books. I did read Erased which was startling and incomprehensible, but haven't read Portraits of Guilt, so will pick that up also. I think my interest in people who commit these kinds of crimes started when I read "The Bad Seed" when I was quite young and it gave me nightmares for quite a long time.
 
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