GUILTY UK - Joanna Yeates, 25, Clifton, Bristol, 17 Dec 2010 #12

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naturally suspicious said:
how much do we know about what happened in aberdeen road very early in the morning of the arrest...
it was reported that vt was clearing his windscreen of frost at 2am...

presumably, that speeded up his arrest and charge...

it may account for fact that no bail applied for....
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The windscreen clearing was a forum member's son IIRC who was up very early and noticed police gathering outside. I think VT was arrested in a 2am raid inside Aberdeen road.
 
Robin Hood said:
The windscreen clearing was a forum member's son IIRC who was up very early and noticed police gathering outside. I think VT was arrested in a 2am raid inside Aberdeen road.
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Yes, it was a member of the Digital Spy forum's son who commented that after the arrest, the area was full of police & they watched him(the son) de-ice his car.

Apparently, 1 in 8 people charged with murder are granted bail - I can't remember where I read that figure though so will have to trawl through my internet history.

Suicide watch is a matter of routine when someone first enters prison; it's part of the reception process so I wouldn't read too much into that. That said, VT if released on bail, would probably be more at risk from killing himself which of course would obstruct the course of justice. Given that he was moved from prison in Bristol because of the strength of feeling locally, he could well be in danger if released. Basically, any harm that he came to on release could obstruct the course of justice. He feels safe in prison, why ask for bail if his life would be in danger from himself or others?
 
veggiefan said:
Does it? In Bristol, LE gave enough details of VT's arrest to make his full name instantly obvious to the world. This has resulted in his family, friends and colleagues coming forward to speak of his good character, the press discovering that he has no criminal record, and even the Crown Prosecutor saying in court that "he is a man of good character both in this country and, as I understand, in Holland."

In contrast, Olaf H remains anonymous, as I understand it (although I haven't been following the case).
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Well, yes. Apparently Olaf H was a family man whose hobby was gardening. The German police have ruled out his involvement with any prior offences. And incidentally Olaf H is only 'anonymous' to the extent that he hasn't been named by the German media. A certain 32 year old man was arrested by the British police and within a few hours his name was all over the internet. I imagine that if you were German it would be possible to identify which 45 year old former executive at Deutsche Telecom if you put your mind to it.

In any case, I think we're in danger of drifting off at a tangent here. I only pointed out the Olaf H story in response to a post by Missjones who apparently had a problem in accepting VT as a suspect because he was "not a rapist has a good clean record in Holland as well as in the UK, worked hard to get the PHd and good job .... ". (Although the same poster appears to have been quite happy to accept GR as a suspect, despite the fact that he (presumably) is not a rapist, has a good clean record in the UK, worked hard to qualify as an architect and get a good job etc. The only point I was trying to make was that sometimes apparently respectable people turn out to have done some very bad things indeed.

Like that perfectly respectable doctor Harold Shipman who is believed to be responsible for maybe a hundred or more murders.
One of the reasons why he got 'away with it' for so long was because people in general (and the authorities in particular) found it so hard to accept that such a thing was possible.
 
bos said:
Suicide watch is a matter of routine when someone first enters prison; it's part of the reception process so I wouldn't read too much into that. That said, VT if released on bail, would probably be more at risk from killing himself which of course would obstruct the course of justice. Given that he was moved from prison in Bristol because of the strength of feeling locally, he could well be in danger if released. Basically, any harm that he came to on release could obstruct the course of justice. He feels safe in prison, why ask for bail if his life would be in danger from himself or others?
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It might be worth noting that, as the CPS puts it, "bail may not be granted to someone charged with murder unless the court is of the opinion that there is no significant risk that, if released on bail, that person would commit an offence that would be likely to cause physical or mental injury to another person."

And in order to ensure that they do not cause any injury to another person (which naturally includes themselves) it is a "requirement that the defendant undergoes examination by 2 medical practitioners, one of whom has been approved for the purposes of s.12 Mental Health Act 1983".

There are, of course, good reasons why a defendant might not want to jump through that particular hoop.
 
naturally suspicious said:
it was reported that vt was clearing his windscreen of frost at 2am...
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Robin Hood said:
The windscreen clearing was a forum member's son IIRC who was up very early and noticed police gathering outside. I think
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bos said:
Yes, it was a member of the Digital Spy forum's son who commented that after the arrest, the area was full of police & they watched him(the son) de-ice his car.
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Actually I think it was this post that started the de-icing rumour ;)

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - UK - Joanna Yeates, Clifton, Bristol, 17 December 2010 - #7
 
Morning all

Sorry to be a pain, could someone post the link to the photo map of the exact spot Jo was found? The one where it was circled I think - I think it was one of philb's posts, I can't remember, also, would it be a good idea to link to it in the first post of threads for easy reference for future?
 
aneurin said:
It might be worth noting that, as the CPS puts it, "bail may not be granted to someone charged with murder unless the court is of the opinion that there is no significant risk that, if released on bail, that person would commit an offence that would be likely to cause physical or mental injury to another person."

And in order to ensure that they do not cause any injury to another person (which naturally includes themselves) it is a "requirement that the defendant undergoes examination by 2 medical practitioners, one of whom has been approved for the purposes of s.12 Mental Health Act 1983".

There are, of course, good reasons why a defendant might not want to jump through that particular hoop.
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There'll be a psychiatric report on him done somewhere down the line anyway, regardless of any bail app reasons. It could also be a reason why bail hasn't yet been applied for too - they're waiting for the reports to be done, which can take time to do.

What's interesting though is that they didn't object on grounds they felt him to be a risk to anyone else if released on bail. They raised concerns they fear he could abscond and/or could possibly try to or interfere with witnesses but no apparent concerns as to him being violent or having murderous tendencies which might come to the fore again (I use "again" here meaning they suspect he's killed one person but don't seem concerned currently that he might kill another one if released)
 
saggymoon said:
Sorry to be a pain, could someone post the link to the photo map of the exact spot Jo was found? The one where it was circled I think - I think it was one of philb's posts, I can't remember, also, would it be a good idea to link to it in the first post of threads for easy reference for future?
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The exact spot is still a matter of conjecture and argument. The police have never disclosed exactly where she was found.
 
saggymoon said:
Morning all

Sorry to be a pain, could someone post the link to the photo map of the exact spot Jo was found? The one where it was circled I think - I think it was one of philb's posts, I can't remember, also, would it be a good idea to link to it in the first post of threads for easy reference for future?
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Currently, there isn't consensus here on where the exact spot was. The police indicated the spot via their crime-watch reconstruction and the place where they took the parents. However, prior to that, a newspaper published an aerial photo with the quarry entrance circled. Personally, I'm going with the police-generated evidence but there are other conclusions.
 
So, is it true one in eight people charged with murder are released on bail?
Are people generally happy with this?
Will murder eventually be classed as a misdemenour?
Why bother going to all the trouble of hunting down killers if they are let out on bail?
Can someone explain to me why it is a good idea to have murderers out on bail?

Do you think Joanna Yeates family would be happy if VT was out on bail?
 
Myserty64 said:
Do you think Joanna Yeates family would be happy if VT was out on bail?
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If I was in their position, I know I wouldn't be too happy and would see it as a concern for many reasons...

We have no clue really if VT is innocent or guilty... but just the fact that he was charged for murder and is about to stand trial means that the police have something against him... Otherwise why charge him for such?
 
Robin Hood said:
The windscreen clearing was a forum member's son IIRC who was up very early and noticed police gathering outside. I think VT was arrested in a 2am raid inside Aberdeen road.
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Yes, it was reported that police removed three wheelie bins and a mountain bike for forensic testing, from Aberdeen Road. There was no mention of any car, or it would have been taken as well.
 
whiterum said:
Yes, it was reported that police removed three wheelie bins and a mountain bike for forensic testing, from Aberdeen Road. There was no mention of any car, or it would have been taken as well.
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So can we assume they already had the car ? was it one of CJ's or had they got permission to move EW's ? Google maps from 2010 appears to show a light blue Fiat Panda 4 X 4 on the drive.
 
Blue Bottle said:
If I was in their position, I know I wouldn't be too happy and would see it as a concern for many reasons...

We have no clue really if VT is innocent or guilty... but just the fact that he was charged for murder and is about to stand trial means that the police have something against him... Otherwise why charge him for such?
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In trying to envision what might have happened that night to better understand what evidence there might be, and without trying to read too much into what we know, it seems that Joanna was attacked in her flat, and that there was a scream heard at around the same time. We know that she was removed from the flat at some point. We also have the clue about her being transported in some sort of bag, like maybe a bike bag for travel. I am wondering if there was some evidence of Joanna in a travel bag belonging to VT, or if there is actual evidence of her in VT's flat.

We know that VT is a bright guy, but it is usually bright people that are sometimes really dumb about obvious things. It's quite possible that VT never expected the entire building to be turned upside down because of the disappearance, and it could be the fact that Joanna was taken away in a travel bag that caused police to first look at travel bags belonging to residents of the building. Really bright people sometimes under-estimate others, and VT could have made a mistake because he made the wrong assumptions.

I think it's quite possible that VT had a bike travel bag, and that it would easily contain a small person. I also think that VT would not part with his bike bag, even if he used it in a crime.
 
Myserty64 said:
So, is it true one in eight people charged with murder are released on bail?
Are people generally happy with this?
Will murder eventually be classed as a misdemenour?
Why bother going to all the trouble of hunting down killers if they are let out on bail?
Can someone explain to me why it is a good idea to have murderers out on bail?

Do you think Joanna Yeates family would be happy if VT was out on bail?
Click to expand...

The presumption of innocence means that until a conviction, people are innocent. Innocent people cannot be locked up. However, sometimes there are enough concerns about an accused whereby he or she is given extremely high/impossible/challenging bail conditions ... such that the accused cannot meet the conditions.
 
Robin Hood said:
So can we assume they already had the car ? was it one of CJ's or had they got permission to move EW's ? Google maps from 2010 appears to show a light blue Fiat Panda 4 X 4 on the drive.
Click to expand...
Is it the 4x4? It looks more like the standard Panda to me (but I'm no car expert!)
 
bees said:
Is it the 4x4? It looks more like the standard Panda to me (but I'm no car expert!)
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I must admit I wasn't 100% sure, try Googling images of Fiat Panda 4x4 and see what comes up. I would post the pics myself but struggle somewhat.
 
Robin Hood said:
I must admit I wasn't 100% sure, try Googling images of Fiat Panda 4x4 and see what comes up. I would post the pics myself but struggle somewhat.
Click to expand...

fiat_panda_4x4_rear_14_09_04.jpg


The bumper on the 4x4 above looks different to the one on google street view.

Below is a Fiat Panda that isn't a 4x4 - I think the bumper looks more like the one on street view.

4295b-car-fiat-panda-2.jpg
 
The above blue one with the black bumper looks like a pull out cycle carrier. Interesting photos though, thanks for posting them.
 
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