Long Easter Weekend Thread (Apr. 5, 6, 7, 8, & 9, 2012)

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I agree Alison that some comments on here can be upsetting. <modsnip>. (Those are the ones that I think could be upsetting to the family!)

BUT I do appreciate being able to come to a place where I can access a multitude of viewpoints.
<modsnip>!
I consider myself an intelligent, analytical and compassionate person...but I almost DAILY hear someone else's viewpoint that keeps me from jumping to a premature conclusion.

JMO

I agree with my bolded sections above. I am perfectly find with the humour that is being posted here as it has been three VERY long years to get justice for an innocent little girl who was savagely beaten, tortured, raped and murdered by two very sick individuals. Tori's family has been dissected in the worst possible way and they were never able to grieve properly for their precious child because of disgusting accusations by others who partook to medley into Tori's families private lives. It has been a long three year for sure, to get where we are at today and getting justice for Tori. Some of us feel happy with the evidence being brought forward by the Crown, and we chose to share our happiness and humour. <modsnip>.:moo:

<modsnip>. HTH
 
Have you all heard of Occam's Razor? Basically it states that the explanation that makes the fewest assumptions is usually correct. No, it's not foolproof, but I also feel that many of these excuses being made for MTR are unreasonable. He drove the car. He drove past the school (repeatedly). He was with TLM. He lied to the police. He was there when a little girl was murdered.

I don't really buy the drug debt theory, so therefore I don't buy that TLM kidnapped her for that purpose. And let's face it, when a man is involved in a kidnapping of a child that is not his own, it's usually for sexual purposes.

So we can assume:

-MTR was an innocent dupe who had no idea what was going on until it was too late
-he had no idea why TLM really wanted to stop at the Home Depot (and why in Guelph? Isn't there one in Woodstock or at least London?)
-he was unaware of the social protocol that you just don't take a strange child in your car--or ANY child, without their parent's explicit permission.
-he was also unaware that driving said child far out of town went even further against the social protocol
-he was waiting in the parking lot of the retirement home because...there was too much traffic? Nobody seems to want to touch that one
-he drove out in the country just for the hell of it--again, with that strange child in his car
-he pulled into a VERY secluded spot just so that TLM could talk to Tori without him present
-he walked far enough away that not only could he not hear them talking, but he also couldn't hear or see TLM viciously murdering Tori with a hammer, using more force than was necessary to kill her
-he was also far enough away that he couldn't hear Tori screaming
-he didn't hear or see his trunk open for TLM to obtain the murder weapon and garbage bags
-he was terrified of her even though he was quite muscular at the time, and almost certainly stronger than her
-instead of backing away slowly from the murderous maniac, jumping in his car, locking the doors, and taking off without her, he helped her clean up this vicious murder of a child
-not only did he help her clean it up, but he also then drove her back to her town, dropped her off far from her own house (would you take that chance of ticking off a maniac by leaving her to walk home in shoes that didn't fit if you were afraid of her? I wouldn't), and then tried to help her disguise her identity
-he kept it all a secret and didn't help her family get closure even though he was simply an innocent dupe and didn't have anything more shameful than that to hide
-her blood was found in his car because...she had a nosebleed?
-he got rid of the seat because he suddenly decided, after participating in cleaning up a murder, that it would be a fine time to spruce up his car
-he had TLM discard chunks of the seat because...you got me with that one. <modsnip>
No, that's too many assumptions for me to make. I think this case is a lot simpler than that.

We can also assume that he was abducted by aliens, his car seat was beamed up into their ship never to be seen again, and he was a victim of their mind control and that's why he did nothing, before or after. But is it reasonable? No.

And that's why I think it's unreasonable to keep trying to explain this all away. Taken together, it looks clear to me.

:woohoo:Awesome post!!!!!!!! IMO
 
As do I. However he did admit to being there and assisting in some way, which IMO makes it concrete but does not mean others have the same thought process or value system as I do. I am referring to what seems to be consistant head butting over the littlest of things, not the need for pertinent, valuable information. Just was frustrated at the moment sorry :).

:slapfight::woot::grouphug:
 
Why leave a child to rot? Why leave a child to rot while her mother stands in front of a camera day after day to be scrutinized and crucified by the public while one is also an abuser of drugs? Why leave a child to rot while shifting blame to the rotting child's mother and boyfriend? Inexcusable. How can this behaviour be defended? He was there. He knew who the missing little girl was. She was the one under the hundred pound rocks that he lifted and dropped onto her body. Whether he raped her, murdered her or not. Tori was there and he was zipping around town, for 6 weeks as he continued to live his life as if nothing even happened. JMO MOO

And what defense lawyer, after hearing the story of what "really happened" and knowing the charges against his client, would advise the client to remain silent and wait 3 years to tell the story. Because they might not ever find the body so that would be a good thing right?

When they would know that by co-operating and telling LE what "really happened" and leading them to the crime scene and the victim at that time would likely have exonerated their client from everything but accessory and maybe obstruction charges which they could have pled down to the minimum penalty because their client had "no previous record".

They could have proven right there and then that TLM was a murderer who took her cues from Necro and duped that poor guy into driving her and the girl she was babysitting to a secluded place of her choosing and murdering her...over a drug debt.

:waitasec:

MOO
 
You mean MR's mother dictated that whole "Things 4 Carol" note to MR and he wrote all that down? Honestly not trying to be sarcastic here, but was there something wrong with her that she couldn't write the note herself? The two bottom additions ("coffee table" and "end table") were written with a different pen, presumably on another day. It makes no sense to me that he wrote this on two separate occasions while being dictated to. Also, "2 lamps" has been crossed off, meaning that she either changed her mind, or that this had already been donated.

Who do you think wrote the smaller note? It couldn't have been JW if the writing matches the previous one. If it was a reminder by MR to himself, why would he write "you can bring the pants back tomorrow"? I would just write, "bring the pants back tomorrow", no "you" necessary.

I maintain that both these notes were written by DM.

Just MOO.

IMO I believe the purpose of the note was to show the jurors that there was a connection between the McClintic family and the Rafferty/Murphy family. MR claimed to not really know TLM. I don't think it was meant to be a "I spy" game. Just kidding :blowkiss:
 
JMO but any little girl who is abducted and there is a male involved, the motive is sexual.
 
Back to the condoms. What kind of man keeps them in his car? I am wondering if MR ever picked up sex trade workers or traded drugs for sex etc.
I would think guys, the "playah" kind, would keep one or two in their wallet. Not in the car.

Re: Money in a plastic bag
Rut roh?
People who work for a living usually get paid by cheque or direct deposit. They also usually don't cash those cheques for large sums of money or withdraw large amounts. Most people also keep money in their wallet.

There's no doubt in my mind MR was a small time drug dealer.

MR's past fascinates me.

There are a couple of predator/sex offender books by Aanna Salter that were recommended to me. Thought I would pass that on to others here.
I found two of them at my local library.

Happy Easter weekend everybody. May we take a moment on Sunday to remember our angel Tori who has brought us all together to stand strong behind her family with justice as our common goal.
 
Oh, but it does have bearing on this case and trust me, I know very well about the Bernado "debacle"... in fact, I know up close and personal - as I'm related to one of Bernardo and Homolka's victims. I've lived it. That's the problem. That's why I hope beyond hope that *IF* MR is guilty of 1st degree murder it will be proven BEYOND A SHADOW OF DOUBT. **IF** he's guilty - I pray there will be solid DNA evidence that will keep him in jail for the rest of his life. It's not enough under our laws to put him away and keep him there based on circumstancial evidence. <modsnip>- even without the all of the facts. But <modsnip>... only to see the killer serve a partial sentence and then be set free to enjoy the rest of her life... as we have with KH. This is why I sincerely hope that **IF** MR is guilty - there has been enough sharing of information between the forces that they get the job done right and keep in in jail... but so far I'm afraid it just isn't there.... not yet

Beyond a shadow of doubt is not the same as reasonable doubt. Big difference. IMO is is more reasonable to conclude that an 8 year old child found without pants, dead in the middle of an isolated field was raped by a man and not the product of a drug/gang war.

I am so sorry for your loss, but what if Karla hadn't confessed? JMO
 
Allison's post

:goodpost: And God forbid it should ever be any of our own children, grandchildren, children of friends, acquaintances. Tor was a random child who could have been anyone's little girl. I pray no one in Tori's family reads here. <modsnip>, JMHO.


I don't think there are many here who are "supporting MR...it's just that the only witness to all the acts he is accused of is a known , druggie & liar and self confessed murderer... who has lied and changed her story too many times to be given any credibility..her writings.. killing her dog.. beating up of her Mother.. etc. etc. etc.... so far all we know about MR and his involvement is the video at a few places...I don't think his lawyer has stated that he was there...he only made a suggestion to buck her lies....so to sum up...many on here are giving him the benefit of doubt UNTIL we have all evidence presented... then I am sure IF proven that he did indeed help swing the hammer then I am sure many will decide at that time...for me, the fact that he was there (if proven) will be enough for me to accept that he should be punished and serve a jail sentence...I am not on here to make fun of him nor pretend I know him or his character....I do think he was doing something with those drugs, whether selling them or using them...I detest when I read others being very descriptive of a possible rape of that child and how it was done etc... and <modsnip>... this case is almost the worse that I have ever read about or followed ( I thought RW was satan but from what I have read about TLM to date (whether true or not) well he has a partner... everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I appreciate that and what I write is my belief and I am not trying to sway anyone into my court.....:moo:
 
IMO I believe the purpose of the note was to show the jurors that there was a connection between the McClintic family and the Rafferty/Murphy family. MR claimed to not really know TLM. I don't think it was meant to be a "I spy" game. Just kidding :blowkiss:

Right. And it also shows that MR told the truth during his May 15 interview with LE when he said that he and his mom were trying to help CM out by taking her furniture "and stuff". I would imagine that DM would need physical help unloading the larger pieces and MR was recruited for muscle. He may have lied about other things, but we now know that this wasn't one of them. <modsnip>
JMO
 
Why leave a child to rot? Why leave a child to rot while her mother stands in front of a camera day after day to be scrutinized and crucified by the public while one is also an abuser of drugs? Why leave a child to rot while shifting blame to the rotting child's mother and boyfriend? Inexcusable. How can this behaviour be defended? He was there. He knew who the missing little girl was. She was the one under the hundred pound rocks that he lifted and dropped onto her body. Whether he raped her, murdered her or not. Tori was there and he was zipping around town, for 6 weeks as he continued to live his life as if nothing even happened. JMO MOO

Well said Matou. :blowkiss:

How would people decide right now if this is all we get for evidence? Seems some posters are looking for that smoking gun. Right now as it stands the defense is admitting MR was present at the crime scene and he drove an abducted eight year old little girl in his car over two hours away from her school, home and family. He help bury her tiny beaten body by placing it in garbage bags and tossing boulders on top of her and never came forward for six week, which may have been forever if LE did not arrest him. We know he has lied to LE and was given all these weeks to fess up but he didn't.

<modsnip> Any why would be helpful. Just wondering. MOO
 
Beyond a shadow of doubt is not the same as reasonable doubt. Big difference. IMO is is more reasonable to conclude that an 8 year old child found without pants, dead in the middle of an isolated field was raped by a man and not the product of a drug/gang war.

I am so sorry for your loss, but what if Karla hadn't confessed? JMO

:clap::clap::tyou: And she was transported there in his car...
 
Right. And it also shows that MR told the truth during his May 15 interview with LE when he said that he and his mom were trying to help CM out by taking her furniture "and stuff". I would imagine that DM would need physical help unloading the larger pieces and MR was recruited for muscle. He may have lied about other things, but we now know that this wasn't one of them. <modsnip>
JMO

I was one that said "whatever" when MR stated that his family was helping CM by donating furniture etc. I figured he was just trying to make himself look like a caring person. After todays evidence/pics of the list and TLM's house etc I believe him and his mom did donate the items to CM. BUT, I feel he did it to please TLM (caring for her mom while she couldn't) to stay on her good side to keep the story as planned....that MR was not there or involved - (remember the journal version -if mike not spotted) He still lied in his interview a few times!!
 
Why leave a child to rot? Why leave a child to rot while her mother stands in front of a camera day after day to be scrutinized and crucified by the public while one is also an abuser of drugs? Why leave a child to rot while shifting blame to the rotting child's mother and boyfriend? Inexcusable. How can this behaviour be defended? He was there. He knew who the missing little girl was. She was the one under the hundred pound rocks that he lifted and dropped onto her body. Whether he raped her, murdered her or not. Tori was there and he was zipping around town, for 6 weeks as he continued to live his life as if nothing even happened. JMO MOO

You are right and I don't disagree. It is inexcusable to anyone like you and me. He was/is a coward and he is not you or me. Whether he was afraid of TLM and her alleged friends in low places, or whether he was afraid of spending the rest of his life in prison, he was afraid. That will be his excuse. Not mine, not yours, but probably his. He had two choices - admit culpability by giving up Tori's location and spend a very long time in jail, or keep his mouth shut and hope he'd never be found out. A simple choice, really, when one's own life is on the line - for a coward.

JMO
 
:jail:
Why leave a child to rot? Why leave a child to rot while her mother stands in front of a camera day after day to be scrutinized and crucified by the public while one is also an abuser of drugs? Why leave a child to rot while shifting blame to the rotting child's mother and boyfriend? Inexcusable. How can this behaviour be defended? He was there. He knew who the missing little girl was. She was the one under the hundred pound rocks that he lifted and dropped onto her body. Whether he raped her, murdered her or not. Tori was there and he was zipping around town, for 6 weeks as he continued to live his life as if nothing even happened. JMO MOO

Yes he does deserve to spend his life in prison for allowing Tori to lay alone under a pile of rocks while her parents, family and the entire nation suffered but does he serve his time as a child rapist murderer or worse a chicken sh%t afraid of a wannabe gangsta girl.
 
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