Theories On What Happened to Caylee Part #8

olive said:

I think Casey killed Caylee out of rage. However, let's pretend it actually was some sort of accident. I still think Casey deserves the death penalty for her behavior after her daughter's death and the horrid way she disposed of her baby, and the way she lied to authorities, ruined thousands of lives, and wasted so many resources. Fry her.

Click to expand...

I totally agree.

BritsKate said:

BBM

Statistically that is not true. According to homicide trends compiled from 1976-2005 by the US Department of Justice -
Of all children under age 5 murdered:

31% were killed by fathers
29% were killed by mothers
23% were killed by male acquaintances
7% were killed by other relatives
3% were killed by strangers

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/children.cfm

Click to expand...

Where's the other 7% ?:waitasec:

Tulessa said:

Where's the other 7% ?:waitasec:

Click to expand...

Good question. Perhaps unsolved cases? It isn't referenced in that table but this is a different one that breaks it down both by year and relationship to victim.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/tables/kidsreltab.cfm

txsvicki said:

Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.

Click to expand...

I don't think she'd bother getting in the pool with her. Just put her in and walk away.

txsvicki said:

Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.

Click to expand...

That's a really good point that I hadn't considered before. If Casey wanted to murder Caylee and planned it for any length of time, you'd think she could have come up with something better than the story she gave. Something like what you've outlined above--I could definitely see her doing something like this.

Nothing makes sense with this case. I can't quite accept the prosecution's case exactly as they've laid it out, but I definitely don't buy the defense's story at all. I think there's got to be more to it that we'll just never be able to figure out. I mean, I could accept it was an accident--a drowning or something--if not for her total lack of grief and the outrageous lies used to cover it up. I could accept that it was premeditated with chloroform, if not for the fact that there are so many variables involved in that scenario (such as successfully making chloroform!) that I don't think Casey was capable of handling. I could accept that she killed her in a fit of rage, if not for the fact that a "soft kill"--whether with chloroform or duct tape--is an oddly slow way to kill someone in a fit of rage. (Aren't rage murders usually shooting, stabbing, or beating?) I guess I could buy that she drowned her purposefully, but then there's the duct tape . . .

And then, if it was premeditated, why?!! It was a terrible plan if she meditated on it for any length of time; her lies about the nanny reek of desperation, as if she didn't expect to have to explain to her mother where Caylee was so soon, and that's the best she could come up with on the fly. It's simply not a logical story to explain why your child has been missing 31 days and you haven't shown any signs of distress.

So, I guess I'm just stuck: I have no idea what happened to Caylee. I do think Casey was solely responsible, but I still have so many questions and uncertainties about the details.

txsvicki said:

Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.

Click to expand...

I think the key, for me, is that I think she'd want to be excused of any responsibility whatsoever. Even now, in the face of the DP she isn't willing to say that she had anything to do with it. The defense would have had a much stronger case if they just stuck to the drowning scenario.

Kelroy said:

That's a really good point that I hadn't considered before. If Casey wanted to murder Caylee and planned it for any length of time, you'd think she could have come up with something better than the story she gave. Something like what you've outlined above--I could definitely see her doing something like this.

Nothing makes sense with this case. I can't quite accept the prosecution's case exactly as they've laid it out, but I definitely don't buy the defense's story at all. I think there's got to be more to it that we'll just never be able to figure out. I mean, I could accept it was an accident--a drowning or something--if not for her total lack of grief and the outrageous lies used to cover it up. I could accept that it was premeditated with chloroform, if not for the fact that there are so many variables involved in that scenario (such as successfully making chloroform!) that I don't think Casey was capable of handling. I could accept that she killed her in a fit of rage, if not for the fact that a "soft kill"--whether with chloroform or duct tape--is an oddly slow way to kill someone in a fit of rage. (Aren't rage murders usually shooting, stabbing, or beating?) I guess I could buy that she drowned her purposefully, but then there's the duct tape . . .

And then, if it was premeditated, why?!! It was a terrible plan if she meditated on it for any length of time; her lies about the nanny reek of desperation, as if she didn't expect to have to explain to her mother where Caylee was so soon, and that's the best she could come up with on the fly. It's simply not a logical story to explain why your child has been missing 31 days and you haven't shown any signs of distress.

So, I guess I'm just stuck: I have no idea what happened to Caylee. I do think Casey was solely responsible, but I still have so many questions and uncertainties about the details.

Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat. And that's why I'm glad I'm not a juror in this case. If this forum is a fair representation of how the jury is seeing the case, my fellow jurors would not like me very much.

Something CA said on the stand is making me rethink the how Caylee died. CA said that the Pooh blanket disappeared like a week before Caylee did. So I asked myself why.

One thought goes to something else that CA said on the stand - that there were back yard stones as the floor in Caylee's playhouse. So what if, instead of ICA leaving Caylee in the trunk of her car while she did her thing, she had put the Pooh blanket on the ground in the playhouse, drugged Caylee up, and then left her sleeping in the playhouse.

If the family thought Caylee was with ICA, then no one would look in the playhouse for any reason. And because of all the issues she seemed to always have running out of gas, I think ICA wouldn't have chanced leaving Caylee in the trunk if she needed assistance getting more gas.

It's JMHO, but my best theory guess at the moment is that after George left for work the last day he saw Caylee, ICA drugged her, left her in the playhouse and then left to see TL. Because of the heat, Caylee quietly passed in her sleep in her playhouse, and ICA came back to the house to find Caylee died. She might have intended to tell CA that Caylee was playing in her house, and fell asleep, but that when she went back to check on her, she found her dead - which would explain the attempted phone calls to CA. But when she couldn't reach her mother, she decided to just leave Caylee there and come back after seeing TL for the night.

ICA came back to try to bury Caylee in the backyard and borrowed the neighbor's shovel to dig Caylee's grave. She put Caylee's body on the ground next to the playhouse, to try to remove the stones from under the playhouse to bury Caylee underneath. When she found it too difficult to dig a grave, she taped up Caylee's mouth and nose to stop the fluids, changed her clothes into fresh, dry ones, put Caylee into a garbage bad, and put her back into the playhouse until she could figure out where to put her body. Within a day or two, she remembered her old animal burial grounds, and decided to leave Caylee there. After dumping Caylee's body, she came back another day, and scrubbed the playhouse to get rid of any fluids - not realizing that some of the fluids had seeped into the ground next to the playhouse where she had laid her body, which is why the dogs "hit" next to the playhouse and not in it.

I'm now thinking the decomp in the trunk actually came from Caylee's clothes she was wearing when she died being thrown into the trunk by ICA in a hurry to go and get rid of them.

Not a complete thought yet, but I'm still marinating on the details....

Kelroy said:

Nothing makes sense with this case. I can't quite accept the prosecution's case exactly as they've laid it out, but I definitely don't buy the defense's story at all. I think there's got to be more to it that we'll just never be able to figure out. I mean, I could accept it was an accident--a drowning or something--if not for her total lack of grief and the outrageous lies used to cover it up. I could accept that it was premeditated with chloroform, if not for the fact that there are so many variables involved in that scenario (such as successfully making chloroform!) that I don't think Casey was capable of handling. I could accept that she killed her in a fit of rage, if not for the fact that a "soft kill"--whether with chloroform or duct tape--is an oddly slow way to kill someone in a fit of rage. (Aren't rage murders usually shooting, stabbing, or beating?) I guess I could buy that she drowned her purposefully, but then there's the duct tape . . . .

Click to expand...

What a great summary as to why this case is so interesting. It just doesn't make sense. But, if had to choose - I go with rage killing

An accident - she would have loved all the attention surrounding it and, there being no prior history of abuse and her parents on her side, she would not have been blamed.

Premeditated murder - she doesn't seem capable of thinking that far ahead; plus, she would have thought about how to dispose of the body - it would not have been in her trunk. What if she had traffic accident or stop?

That leaves rage killing. She had already been thinking about killing Caylee for her own reasons; so she had ideas about it. I don't think she struck at Caylee. She was angry at her mother, the baby, her life and finally just did it. It was the result of long-term tension and strain associated with Caylee and living with her parents and some trigger on June 15th.

If it was a rage killing, then she would get manslaughter, is that correct?

Tulessa said:

Where's the other 7% ?:waitasec:

Click to expand...

Imaginary nannies :maddening::loser:

The Shoat said:

What a great summary as to why this case is so interesting. It just doesn't make sense. But, if had to choose - I go with rage killing

An accident - she would have loved all the attention surrounding it and, there being no prior history of abuse and her parents on her side, she would not have been blamed.

Premeditated murder - she doesn't seem capable of thinking that far ahead; plus, she would have thought about how to dispose of the body - it would not have been in her trunk. What if she had traffic accident or stop?

That leaves rage killing. She had already been thinking about killing Caylee for her own reasons; so she had ideas about it. I don't think she struck at Caylee. She was angry at her mother, the baby, her life and finally just did it. It was the result of long-term tension and strain associated with Caylee and living with her parents and some trigger on June 15th.

Click to expand...

I vote for premeditated. She had a HOT date planned with TL and Cindy couldn't babysit

BG4pip said:

I'm in the same boat. And that's why I'm glad I'm not a juror in this case. If this forum is a fair representation of how the jury is seeing the case, my fellow jurors would not like me very much.

Click to expand...

They wouldn't like me much either, but I'd appreciate having you on *my* jury if I ever needed one.

Linda7NJ said:

I vote for premeditated. She had a HOT date planned with TL and Cindy couldn't babysit

Click to expand...

Jumping from "Cindy can't babysit" to murder seems like a huge leap to me. I just can't past the thought that she seemed to view herself as a masterful manipulator, why not try getting someone else to watch Caylee before resorting to murder? I'm not saying you're wrong, because goodness knows her mind was so twisted, maybe this did seem logical to her, but I guess that's the biggest problem in this case, that we don't really understand how her mind works. MOO

Silmarion said:

I can't stand her, and I hate the title "Tot Mom." It's disgusting. She doesn't know anymore than anyone else what happened to Caylee. But she loves publicity.

For all those blaming the mother and/or other members of the family, I recall the same stuff was said over and over about JonBenet's family. Some even blamed the little brother. In that case, they never even had enough evidence to go to trial. Yet they were blamed everywhere and on all the forums and those loony newspapers. The family was excoriated! I never believed it. Now they think new evidence (which they missed last time-what a surprise) shows it may have been an intruder.

It's a good thing they caught that nice next door neighbor, Westerfield in the[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] Danielle Van Dam trial. He wasn't even suspected, but something gave him away. Cause they put the mother through the meat grinder and blamed her.

Nobody knows what happened to poor little Caylee. I find it very difficult to believe anyone in the family did it. I haven't heard any motives strong enough for murdering a little child. I don't think that the police have done much of an investigation, concentrating only on Casey and possibly her dad or brother. While families are often involved, it's not proven that's always the case. Often as not, it's a stranger, neighbor or even a friend.

Nancy Grace is disgusting.
[/FONT]

Click to expand...

How do you explain the evidence? Particularly the decomp in Casey's car? I am not being ugly I sincerely want to know what you think.

The Shoat said:

What a great summary as to why this case is so interesting. It just doesn't make sense. But, if had to choose - I go with rage killing

An accident - she would have loved all the attention surrounding it and, there being no prior history of abuse and her parents on her side, she would not have been blamed.

Premeditated murder - she doesn't seem capable of thinking that far ahead; plus, she would have thought about how to dispose of the body - it would not have been in her trunk. What if she had traffic accident or stop?

That leaves rage killing. She had already been thinking about killing Caylee for her own reasons; so she had ideas about it. I don't think she struck at Caylee. She was angry at her mother, the baby, her life and finally just did it. It was the result of long-term tension and strain associated with Caylee and living with her parents and some trigger on June 15th.

Click to expand...

..but what if the accident involved ( like many suggest) a drugged Caylee?
If Caylee accidentally died of a drug overdose because KC wanted her to sleep through her date with TL than she would have a reason to cover up because CA would never forgive her.After all that theory may make the most sense.Maybe she did make chloroform after all.

thedeviledadvocate said:

Theory on what happened to Caylee.

When KC found Caylee's drowned body in the pool, she immediately went into the denial stage. She lay Caylee down near her little mailbox to play. Late that afternoon, she wrapped Caylee in her blanket, in a cocoon fashion and placed 3 pieces of duct tape on the blanket to ensure it didn't unfold, even placing a heart shaped sticker on the tape to show she loved her. While KC was wrapping Caylee in the blanket, a single strand of Caylee's hair caught on KC's watch. She placed the blanket wrapping Caylee, inside the laundry bag and carried her out to the car, placing her in the trunk. While placing her in the trunk, the single strand of hair slipped off her watch and fell into the trunk. She went back inside and gathered a few of Caylee's things and placed them in a plastic garbage bag. She had grabbed 2 bags, but only needed one and she placed it inside the first one. She then took this out to the trunk of her car. She drove around the corner to the wooded area. She took Caylee and the plastic bag with her things into the woods. She took the extra garbage bag out and laid it on the ground, somewhat under the log. She took the wrapped Caylee from the laundry bag and laid her on the garbage bag. She tied the plastic bag with her things so they wouldn't get lost, then took the plastic bag and the laundry bag and layed them beside her. In her denial stage, she thought she was laying Caylee down in a nice safe place, wrapped in a womblike way. She drove away and went to her boyfriends. Between the animals, bugs, and the tropical storm, the scene as KC had left it had changed drastically. The duct tape that had been keeping the blanket from unfolding, had been dislodged from animal activity, tropical storm, and deterioration, coming to rest next to Caylee's skull, and became attached to the hair mass and the mandible from root growth and weather conditions. The "garbage" in the trunk was not trash, but garbage (it became trash after being cleaned and placed in the drying room), was the cause of the horrendous odor.

Click to expand...

You sent me to read this and I did, I noticed though that you didn't address how GA, CA and LA wound up under the bus? Why caylee spent approx 3 days in the trunk? Why Casey laid her out in the yard and then LATER in the afternoon went back for her? Why Casey spent 31 days partying and stealing from her friends ( and please don't say it's because she had no money to live on, she's spent the last 2 years at least ripping her family off)?

Silmarion said:

I can't stand her, and I hate the title "Tot Mom." It's disgusting. She doesn't know anymore than anyone else what happened to Caylee. But she loves publicity.

For all those blaming the mother and/or other members of the family, I recall the same stuff was said over and over about JonBenet's family. Some even blamed the little brother. In that case, they never even had enough evidence to go to trial. Yet they were blamed everywhere and on all the forums and those loony newspapers. The family was excoriated! I never believed it. Now they think new evidence (which they missed last time-what a surprise) shows it may have been an intruder.

It's a good thing they caught that nice next door neighbor, Westerfield in the[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica, Arial] Danielle Van Dam trial. He wasn't even suspected, but something gave him away. Cause they put the mother through the meat grinder and blamed her.

Nobody knows what happened to poor little Caylee. I find it very difficult to believe anyone in the family did it. I haven't heard any motives strong enough for murdering a little child. I don't think that the police have done much of an investigation, concentrating only on Casey and possibly her dad or brother. While families are often involved, it's not proven that's always the case. Often as not, it's a stranger, neighbor or even a friend.

Nancy Grace is disgusting.
[/FONT]

Click to expand...

I don't think Le would have "focused" so much on Casey if the hadn't caught her in outright lies and if she had reported a kidnapping/accident or whatever on day 1. There was a very good reason Casey became LE's focus. And they tried every way possible to find a Zanny. They could only work with what Casey was feeding them. Everything pointed back to her having the last contact with Caylee. LE does make mistakes but Casey quickly made herself the primary suspect all by herself.

txsvicki said:

Casey seems to make herself a victim, so if Caylee drowned it would seem like she'd have said she only got out of the pool for a minute to sit on the patio then had one of those seizures or passed out only to awake to Caylee drowned. She could have even called Jesse up and pretended to have one. Something like that would still have made her a victim and excused any neglect. She's capable of cooking something up if would have worked.

Click to expand...

You're right. She could have cooked up something that could have worked but she is her own worst enemy. To admit Caylee died on the 16th she would have had to cancel her date with TonE. I seriously think she did not want to deal with reporting Caylee missing or dead earlier because then she would have had to play the greiving mother and miss out on all the parties. She truly was flying by the seat of her pants living minute by minute.ONly my opinion but that is how selfish I perceive her to be.

thedeviledadvocate said:

Theory on what happened to Caylee.

When KC found Caylee's drowned body in the pool, she immediately went into the denial stage. She lay Caylee down near her little mailbox to play. Late that afternoon, she wrapped Caylee in her blanket, in a cocoon fashion and placed 3 pieces of duct tape on the blanket to ensure it didn't unfold, even placing a heart shaped sticker on the tape to show she loved her. While KC was wrapping Caylee in the blanket, a single strand of Caylee's hair caught on KC's watch. She placed the blanket wrapping Caylee, inside the laundry bag and carried her out to the car, placing her in the trunk. While placing her in the trunk, the single strand of hair slipped off her watch and fell into the trunk. She went back inside and gathered a few of Caylee's things and placed them in a plastic garbage bag. She had grabbed 2 bags, but only needed one and she placed it inside the first one. She then took this out to the trunk of her car. She drove around the corner to the wooded area. She took Caylee and the plastic bag with her things into the woods. She took the extra garbage bag out and laid it on the ground, somewhat under the log. She took the wrapped Caylee from the laundry bag and laid her on the garbage bag. She tied the plastic bag with her things so they wouldn't get lost, then took the plastic bag and the laundry bag and layed them beside her. In her denial stage, she thought she was laying Caylee down in a nice safe place, wrapped in a womblike way. She drove away and went to her boyfriends. Between the animals, bugs, and the tropical storm, the scene as KC had left it had changed drastically. The duct tape that had been keeping the blanket from unfolding, had been dislodged from animal activity, tropical storm, and deterioration, coming to rest next to Caylee's skull, and became attached to the hair mass and the mandible from root growth and weather conditions. The "garbage" in the trunk was not trash, but garbage (it became trash after being cleaned and placed in the drying room), was the cause of the horrendous odor.

Click to expand...

Due respect here but, are you kidding? The duct tape just kind of floated around and found its' place in her hair and mandible? As far as the horrendous odor, if it was garbage turned trash after drying, why does the car still smell after 2 years!? Decomp is unmistakeable!! It doesn't smell anything like "garbage". C'mon......I can only support denial so far.