AZ - Thomas Kemp executed for '92 murder of Tucson college student

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This creep died a better death than what he put his victims through.

So what if he shaked. Wonder if his victim shaked while he was raping and murdering them.
 
AnaTeresa said:
Again, the issue is a far greater one than the one specific defendant. It's a constitutional issue whether the drug used may violate the cruel and usual punishment prohibition of the constitution.

And the death penalty - any punishment really - goes far beyond deterrence. The judicial system is constantly trying to balance different theories of retributivism and utilitarianism, balancing the rights of an individual, society, the government, etc. The sociological ideas of punishment are fairly complex and more nuanced than simply eye for an eye.
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Hmmmm ..... I never said anything about an eye for an eye. A person knows that if they rape and murder someone the penalty can be the death penalty, so yes, it is meant to deter individuals from raping and murdering. The ones who don't 'get it' well, they 'get it' eventually.

Sorry, not one iota of sympathy from me on this one, except I am sorry for his victims and the families who must go on without them.
 
wonders said:
As usual I can't keep my fingers shut.
I think lethal injection is probably like going under in surgery, you don't feel anything. It's to bad his victims felt everything. IMO he was just a coward.
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Yeah in some ways he managed to make his death the easiest of all. No pain and humiliation from cancer, no surprise and pain from a heart attack. No pain from a knife or gunshot wound. No general pain and unwellness like from pneumonia. He watched them insert an IV then he went to sleep. Very inhumane after the life he lived.
 
AnaTeresa said:
Again, I don't know how many times I have to say this but it is not about THIS particular defendant. I'm with the lawyer in being concerned that the method used in executions in that state may be unconstitutional and that further inquiry should be made about the drugs being used and who is administering them. This is a bigger issue than this one man. Far, far bigger.
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Again? There is no way to determine whether or not LI is painful and I suspect you know that, so I suspect you're not anti LI per se, but anti DP and are using the prospect of painful lethal injections to bolster an argument against the DP, which seems to be falling on deaf eyes.
 
TrackerSam said:
Again? There is no way to determine whether or not LI is painful and I suspect you know that, so I suspect you're not anti LI per se, but anti DP and are using the prospect of painful lethal injections to bolster an argument against the DP, which seems to be falling on deaf eyes.
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No, I'm not anti-LI, nor am I necessarily anti-DP. I believe that there are individuals who do deserve the death penalty. However, I am concerned with applying the death penalty as things are now, given the numbers of innocent people in prison or even on death row. However, whether or not the death penalty should be used is not the issue here.

What I'm concerned with is the constitution and its prohibition against cruel and unusual punishment. There have been previous instances of lethal injection not "taking" and causing extreme pain. On paper, lethal injection actually sounds the most in line with our constitutional provision against cruel and unusual punishment, however because of issues with certain choices of drugs/lack of medical professionals, it can cross the line. As it stands right now, I simply think there should be further inquiry into the drug(s) used and the manner in which they are administered.
 
Under that reasoning though we are probably being unconstituional by not putting death row inmates to death immediately after conviction. Why some death row inmates have died of cancer. Very painful. Heart attacks and pneumonia have also taken death row inmates and those have varying degrees of illness and pain. And we allowed that.

Death is never easy, no matter how it is done. Even dying naturally usually has some pain and discomfort, even with pain meds. So there will always be some possibility that they will feel something. Even if it is only a pinprick of the needle being inserted.

The question is to what degree is it acceptable. I certainly agree that a poorly maintained electric chair that set the inmate on fire is inhumane. But a medication that puts the inmate to sleep while it is causing the body damage severe enough to terminate their lives? Is it really inhumane if they sleep through it?
 
wonders said:
As usual I can't keep my fingers shut.
I think lethal injection is probably like going under in surgery, you don't feel anything. It's to bad his victims felt everything. IMO he was just a coward.
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I really don't care about this man. There are people who wake up during surgery and feel pain and can't express it. Unfortunately, this happens! Because one injection works on one "patient" and not another is an issue of science, and not the constitution. Clearly not all inmates shake who are executed. This isn't the first time, and probably won't be the last.

Patients say it feels like being trapped in a corpse: They awake during surgery, unable to move or scream. Some remember hearing their surgeons talk, and a few recall feeling intense pain.

IMHO I think this sounds like a metabolic issue and not the prison trying to make sure this guy suffered.

MOO

Mel

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23597612/ns/health-health_care/t/people-year-wake-during-surgery/
 
mysteriew said:
Under that reasoning though we are probably being unconstituional by not putting death row inmates to death immediately after conviction. Why some death row inmates have died of cancer. Very painful. Heart attacks and pneumonia have also taken death row inmates and those have varying degrees of illness and pain. And we allowed that.

Death is never easy, no matter how it is done. Even dying naturally usually has some pain and discomfort, even with pain meds. So there will always be some possibility that they will feel something. Even if it is only a pinprick of the needle being inserted.

The question is to what degree is it acceptable. I certainly agree that a poorly maintained electric chair that set the inmate on fire is inhumane. But a medication that puts the inmate to sleep while it is causing the body damage severe enough to terminate their lives? Is it really inhumane if they sleep through it?
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In the examples you cited of heart attacks or illness, that's not caused by the government. The government cannot inflict cruel and unusual punishment. Withholding treatment for illness would be cruel and unusual punushment, yes, but the inmate contracting said illness is not.

And the problem with lethal injection is that with some drugs or methods, the inmate is not simply going to sleep while death is being carried out. I strongly encourage you to read more about lethal injection and some of the issues there have been in its administration.
 
AnaTeresa said:
In the examples you cited of heart attacks or illness, that's not caused by the government. The government cannot inflict cruel and unusual punishment. Withholding treatment for illness would be cruel and unusual punushment, yes, but the inmate contracting said illness is not.

And the problem with lethal injection is that with some drugs or methods, the inmate is not simply going to sleep while death is being carried out. I strongly encourage you to read more about lethal injection and some of the issues there have been in its administration.
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Why would we read more about it? I don't care if it's painful as long as it's lethal. I think most of us feel that way. Why so much compassion for the murderer while never once mentioning the victim? Why? Constitution - yea we got that.
 
AnaTeresa said:
In the examples you cited of heart attacks or illness, that's not caused by the government. The government cannot inflict cruel and unusual punishment. Withholding treatment for illness would be cruel and unusual punushment, yes, but the inmate contracting said illness is not.

And the problem with lethal injection is that with some drugs or methods, the inmate is not simply going to sleep while death is being carried out. I strongly encourage you to read more about lethal injection and some of the issues there have been in its administration.
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I believe the American Heart association says a lack of exercise contributes to heart disease for some people. It is hard to get meaningful excercise in a cell. So should we not confine them?
 
Melanie said:
I really don't care about this man. There are people who wake up during surgery and feel pain and can't express it. Unfortunately, this happens! Because one injection works on one "patient" and not another is an issue of science, and not the constitution. Clearly not all inmates shake who are executed. This isn't the first time, and probably won't be the last.

Patients say it feels like being trapped in a corpse: They awake during surgery, unable to move or scream. Some remember hearing their surgeons talk, and a few recall feeling intense pain.

IMHO I think this sounds like a metabolic issue and not the prison trying to make sure this guy suffered.

MOO

Mel

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23597612/ns/health-health_care/t/people-year-wake-during-surgery/
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I have heard of this as well. But I think it's rare. I've had many surgeries and it has never happen to me (thank everything that is good). However, I woke up during a colonoscopy once and is was quite uncomfortable.
IDK, I feel if you have the guts to torture, rape and murder another human being then you better be gutsy enough to face your own death.
I don't give a fig if he was shaking. He was a coward and probably was the first to cry mommy when he was caught. I watch a lot of Extended Stay on msmbc on Saturday's, and the majority of these prisoners are the biggest babies I've ever seen with their whinnig about everything. It makes me sick, what did they expect the Ritz. I mean come on.
No sympathy from me what-so-ever.

ETA: Last week on Extended Stay I think it was there was a guy who was getting released. He likes being in prison because he dosent have all the pressure that normal people have, ya know, paying rent etc. So he'll be back.
 
In the olden days they used to string them up from a tree, no worry about pain. Sounds good to me!
 
AnaTeresa said:
In the examples you cited of heart attacks or illness, that's not caused by the government. The government cannot inflict cruel and unusual punishment. Withholding treatment for illness would be cruel and unusual punushment, yes, but the inmate contracting said illness is not.

And the problem with lethal injection is that with some drugs or methods, the inmate is not simply going to sleep while death is being carried out. I strongly encourage you to read more about lethal injection and some of the issues there have been in its administration.
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Pain? Would you vote against abortion? How about partial birth abortion?
If someone violates another person's civil rights by murdering them, do they not forfeit their own rights? LI may cause a moments pain. A murderer causes his victim's family a lifetime of pain. You should read up on it.
 
mysteriew said:
I believe the American Heart association says a lack of exercise contributes to heart disease for some people. It is hard to get meaningful excercise in a cell. So should we not confine them?
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BBM
Oh not at all. You wouldn't believe what these people come up with in their cells to exercise. And let me tell you they are buff.
I encourage all of you to watch Extended Stay on Saturday night's, It will open your eyes to a lot of things that go on in prison.
 
These threads always demonstrate why the death penalty is barbarous: not just because it is cruel to its victims, but because it brings out the absolute worst in almost everyone else.
 
Nova said:
These threads always demonstrate why the death penalty is barbarous: not just because it is cruel to its victims, but because it brings out the absolute worst in almost everyone else.
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Seriously. Lynchings? I don't know about anyone else but that's not an era that I want to return to.

Off topic: I'm not sure where you've been, Nova, but it sure is nice to have you back! :)
 
Melanie said:
I really don't care about this man. There are people who wake up during surgery and feel pain and can't express it. Unfortunately, this happens! Because one injection works on one "patient" and not another is an issue of science, and not the constitution. Clearly not all inmates shake who are executed. This isn't the first time, and probably won't be the last.

Patients say it feels like being trapped in a corpse: They awake during surgery, unable to move or scream. Some remember hearing their surgeons talk, and a few recall feeling intense pain.

IMHO I think this sounds like a metabolic issue and not the prison trying to make sure this guy suffered.

MOO

Mel

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23597612/ns/health-health_care/t/people-year-wake-during-surgery/
Click to expand...

Wow, the waking up during surgery happened to me. The paralyzing drug worked but the one to put me under and to keep me from feeling pain didnt. I was feeling every cut of the knife into my back and could not talk, move or tell them. Luckily the anesthesiologist saw my vital signs were going crazy and quickly gave me a huge dose to put me under again. Come to find out, redheads require MORE anesthesia, usually at least 25% more than others, Weird but true.

But as for the executed criminal who was "shaking". Heck he could have been laughing for all we know. I know I shake the bed when I am looking at funny stuff on the internet and trying not to wake up Mr. Swamp with my giggling.

What he experienced was nothing more than any person getting an IV does. I still have zero sympathy for him.

He could have been shaking with anger that he was getting what he deserved and could not hurt anyone anymore.
 
AnaTeresa said:
In the examples you cited of heart attacks or illness, that's not caused by the government. The government cannot inflict cruel and unusual punishment. Withholding treatment for illness would be cruel and unusual punushment, yes, but the inmate contracting said illness is not.

And the problem with lethal injection is that with some drugs or methods, the inmate is not simply going to sleep while death is being carried out. I strongly encourage you to read more about lethal injection and some of the issues there have been in its administration.
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Nova said:
These threads always demonstrate why the death penalty is barbarous: not just because it is cruel to its victims, but because it brings out the absolute worst in almost everyone else.
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I agree with you both but I understand how incredibly difficult it is for many people to look at the issue objectively. Even though I'm theoretically against the death penalty, everyday I read about people who I think the firing squad is too good for.

I watched a show ... I forget the name ... where a man was a prison guard (supervisor or something) and his job was to walk the prisoners through their final day, right up to strapping them to the table where they would die. He ended up retiring early with (I think) PTSD and/or other emotional issues. It took its toll, naturally.

Like someone else said, I don't want to go back to the 'town square hanging' days but the human race hasn't really evolved beyond that if we still have state-sanctioned murder.

I struggle with this internal debate constantly so I 'get' both sides because I'm conflicted.
 
ChasingMoxie said:
Seriously. Lynchings? I don't know about anyone else but that's not an era that I want to return to.

Off topic: I'm not sure where you've been, Nova, but it sure is nice to have you back! :)
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Thank you, Moxie, but I haven't been gone. WS is so big nowadays, it seems quite possible to spend considerable time here and never run into old friends.

Thanks for asking about me and, yes, please, let's don't go back to lynchings!
 
LadyL said:
I agree with you both but I understand how incredibly difficult it is for many people to look at the issue objectively. Even though I'm theoretically against the death penalty, everyday I read about people who I think the firing squad is too good for....
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You'll get no argument from me, LadyL. I oppose the d.p. because of what it does to us as a society and because it has become patently obvious that we execute innocent people all too often.

It's not that I don't know how horrible some people can be. I've spent too much time here at WS to be naive about that! LOL.
 
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