TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #4

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Regarding the hearing on Friday-I wonder in what circumstances a GAL would be appointed in a probate situation like this one? I mean it couldnt hurt at all to have a guardian take legal custody (not physical) of these little ones and determine who is the better parent, even though Gail maybe absent.

The kids are at an age where any judge worth his/her salt would ask them what they think and feel about custody...at least that is what would happen here as in the NorthEast.

Can any locals weigh in?

I think a GAL can advocate for counseling for the children. I'm almost sure but would hope a legal expert could weigh in on this.

This is the main issue I am afraid will fall through the cracks.

I am confused by the mention of probate. I thought probate dealt only with situations where a person was deceased. Surely that has not been legally assumed at this time....

As I think of it, though, the idea that the case would move in that direction would explain the choice of Chancery over Circuit, for the legal separation proceedings. If I'm not mistaken, probate is definitely Chancery and NEVER Circuit. Circuit, on the other hand, presides over many more divorce cases than Chancery.
 
Remember the time difference....

I can't get over thinking there was someone in wait for her when she got home. :banghead: If not in the garage or woods, maybe inside somewhere, since the house is so large. I wonder if they have a basement?

Maybe Gail's siblings and friends are busy gathering info for court on Friday? Is that possible?

My only problem with this theory is that the person lying in wait would have to have done this without the kids knowing, or surely they'd be talking about it and completely traumatized by watching their mom get kidnapped. And we might know about it (at least we'd know a little something more about what happened to Gail)! How could he (or she) grab Gail without the kids seeing or hearing anything? Seems like it might take too much planning, and just be too chancy.
 
I think a GAL can advocate for counseling for the children. I'm almost sure but would hope a legal expert could weigh in on this.

This is the main issue I am afraid will fall through the cracks.

I am confused by the mention of probate. I thought probate dealt only with situations where a person was deceased. Surely that has not been legally assumed at this time....

As I think of it, though, the idea that the case would move in that direction would explain the choice of Chancery over Circuit, for the legal separation proceedings. If I'm not mistaken, probate is definitely Chancery and NEVER Circuit. Circuit, on the other hand, presides over many more divorce cases than Chancery.

My apologies Pearl-here we have Probate and Family Court, so that is how I refer to it. Sorry on the confusion!

I do think a GAL would be a good conservative move, so that there is no rush to judgement on anyone's part.
 
I dont know how I feel about the lying in wait theory-I guess it depends on whether or not she got out of the car to let the kiddos into the house....
 
I dont know how I feel about the lying in wait theory-I guess it depends on whether or not she got out of the car to let the kiddos into the house....

And where he or she was lying in wait. I know it probably would have to be a "he" but you never know.
 
Oh agreed Columbo-Gail could have been on her way down the mountain and stopped....
 
Besides the GAL idea, here's another possibility that would be "out of the box." I don't know enough about the program to have "information," but I sure do have questions! The website refers to use of CASA's by juvenile court judges in cases of child abuse/neglect, but I wonder if that is really the full extent of the program. Could judges in other courts make use of this program in other circumstances, such as this one? Not instead of a GAL. From the little bit of reading I've done in the past 30 minutes (not exactly extensive research), in some states GALs and CASAs are the same or close to the same. In Tennessee, however, CASAs are not attorneys. I think I read in one of the articles I skimmed, that a CASA's report is accessible to the judge but NOT EVEN THE ATTORNEYS!

Ideally, I think these children should have the benefit of every program that might help them. I see value in both programs and wonder if the children could have both.

What I really worry about is that the children are not going to have any outlet to talk about WHATEVER they need to talk about. If they have to worry about whether or not dad would approve of what they say, counseling will do no good. That's why I think the counseling decisions need to be taken completely out of dad's control in this case. A safe situation where they can know that what they say won't be piped straight through to dad. Even if dad is guilty of nothing, he is still under scrutiny to the nth degree and HAS to be concerned that the children say nothing that could hurt him, even by twisting what they say.

Here's the Tennessee CASA link: http://www.tncasa.org/. Also: http://casa-nashville.org/faq.htm

I hope SOMEBODY is doing something to intervene legally for the children--separate from what dad is doing to cover his own rear end.
 
I wonder if it will be continued again...I doubt another 30 days would hurt anyone. JMO.
 
Re: Great concern regarding upcoming court hearings..petitions..motions..rulings..etc..*Especially with regard of the two minor children, their behalf, well-being, and custody arrangements..

I really wish we had one of our great legal eagles here peeping in on Gail's thread.. We certainly could use their knowledge and experience to help us possibly understand more about what may be going on, what is to come, and what are the chances of certain rulings, etc, etc..Is anyone by chance pals with any of our great verified WS lawyers? If so, maybe one could ask if when he/she had time could they peep in and take a look at some of our concerns and questions about these upcoming court proceedings..

And then those of use that had specific or particular questions to ask about that our verified lawyers could help us understand we could post those concerns or questions??..Just thinking aloud..

I just really need to have clarification about exactly what would be the procedure for moving forward with this divorce/separation, R.O., and of course most importantly how would they handle the two children's custody?

Do they proceed as if Gail is willingly choosing to be absent from her children's lives without even phone communications..as well as willingly be absent to any/all of these court procedures..again especially the ones concerning her children??

With there being no evidence of foul play[that we know of] and with Matt proceeding as if she has willingly chosen to disappear herself..will the courts follow suit in proceeding in the same manner as if Gail has every opportunity to be present for the court proceedings and is continuing to choose to not be present for them???

I just cannot imagine the courts actually proceeding in this way?? But what is the option? IMO the option would be to proceed as if Gail is not willingly choosing to be absent therefor that would indicate some form of foul play having taken place that is keeping her from being present..[and personally this is my belief]..but we are talking about court and judicial proceeding that alot of it is cut and dry..black and white.. so, therefor how could they proceed as if she was a victim of foul play but yet would not Matt's counsel argue that there is zero proof of any foul play where Gail is concerned and demand that they must proceed at this point with Gail willingly choosing to not participate and/or be present..until something as far as evidence points or indicates something different as in proof that some type of foul play is definitely involved [prohibiting Gail from being present and participating fully in her children's lives, best interests, and ultimate custody decision...

Until I know for certain what exactly this procedure would be I cannot for certain[or really even for purposes of theorizing]even begin decide what I feel may or may not happen in these upcoming procedures..

For example with the GAL.. This IMO completely depends on how the courts choose to proceed[i.e. Gail willingly Missing or Gail met with Foul play]whether or not a GAL even comes into play in this case.. Meaning if they proceed with the presumption of Gail choosing not to be present then a GAL most likely wouldn't be assigned..unless something such as Gail's family had a very valid and provable claim or reason that the children would somehow be in harms way and therefor not in their best interest to be with dad full time[this IMO highly unlikely here in TN whereas extended family members, even Grandparents have no rights when it comes to custody OR EVEN A VISITATION SCHEDULE!!..They have zero rights to those kids or their upbringing.. I know this personally, first hand experience]..

But if the court chose to proceed as if Gail had nmet with foul play and is being prohibited from being present and participating...well...that is just a whole another ball game entirely and completely...

Hope that all made sense :)

But we do need clarification on a couple of these most important upcoming court proceedings, filings, motions, hearings, etc... KWIM?
 
My only problem with this theory is that the person lying in wait would have to have done this without the kids knowing, or surely they'd be talking about it and completely traumatized by watching their mom get kidnapped. And we might know about it (at least we'd know a little something more about what happened to Gail)! How could he (or she) grab Gail without the kids seeing or hearing anything? Seems like it might take too much planning, and just be too chancy.

My thought is the kids went into the house and got occupied doing what kids normally do after a long trip.....get on their electronics, etc. MP had called her previously and said he wanted to meet with her to talk w/o the kids...for a short time and then "someone" was waiting for her in hiding and when she came into the house to unload... someone got into the jeep, then surprised her. They could have been in the woods or had access to the garage before she got there. She prolly would've left the keys in the ignition since she would been leaving again. Curious if the dogs were inside or outside dogs. They could have threatened her and had a weapon. Told her if she didn't do as told there was someone watching the kids and they would be hurt. ??? I hope I'm wrong.
 
They have a big house near lots of woods, and I think it's quite possible that someone could hide either inside or outside.

If they had a weapon it wouldn't matter what they told her about the kids, she wouldn't scream and alert them.

What's disturbing is that scenario would imply someone who knew the layout of the house and possibly Gail's habits - the way she would come back out to unload the car while the kids went upstairs, for instance. And in that scenario, they would have to know what time she was coming home, or a rough estimate.
 
And where he or she was lying in wait. I know it probably would have to be a "he" but you never know.

You know, a few years ago I would have agreed with you, but after being in the city again, you now learn that females can be just as bold and ruthless. Times have changed and there is an increase in crimes involving females. They carry weapons as well and have the same drug problems and motivations as males. Although GP normally wouldn't have contact with the above, we don't know who, what or why someone else would have.

Signal Mountain seems like a fairly safe area, and I would imagine theft, buglary, etc, is the most common crime because of the upper middle class residing there. I even doubt many shady characters from the city would even bother to go to the trouble of having to exit the mountain again. Sounds and looks like a very nice area to live....you have the convenience and niceties of the city with the option of getting away from it all within a few minutes for recreation in the beautiful mountains. If I could I'd be there for the Bessie Smith Festival? next month and see the sights that SM provides I would. I've only driven around and thru Chattanooga within my travels and unfortunately the only thing I can recall is one heck of a thunderstorm and pounding rain...with the thought if I should pull over. Bad boom booms for sure.
 
They have a big house near lots of woods, and I think it's quite possible that someone could hide either inside or outside.

If they had a weapon it wouldn't matter what they told her about the kids, she wouldn't scream and alert them.

What's disturbing is that scenario would imply someone who knew the layout of the house and possibly Gail's habits - the way she would come back out to unload the car while the kids went upstairs, for instance. And in that scenario, they would have to know what time she was coming home, or a rough estimate.

bolded by me.

That is the disturbing part.....It's hard to consider what it would imply. :sick:
 
Re: hollyblue's post inquiring if Arlene had ever made it to Signal Mtn as was said she woukd to help search..

At the following link you'll find that yes, Arlene has been In Signal Mtn doing all she in her power can do to find Gail.. And it also includes a picture of Arlene in Signal as she is handing out flyers.. I believe it wS said they'd already handed out 10,000 Gail Missing flyers..

Here's the link..
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/may/07/police-searching-missing-signal-woman/?print

Hope that Helps!! :)

She was also back there last week for a few days.
 
Re: Great concern regarding upcoming court hearings..petitions..motions..rulings..etc..*Especially with regard of the two minor children, their behalf, well-being, and custody arrangements..

I really wish we had one of our great legal eagles here peeping in on Gail's thread.. We certainly could use their knowledge and experience to help us possibly understand more about what may be going on, what is to come, and what are the chances of certain rulings, etc, etc..Is anyone by chance pals with any of our great verified WS lawyers? If so, maybe one could ask if when he/she had time could they peep in and take a look at some of our concerns and questions about these upcoming court proceedings..

And then those of use that had specific or particular questions to ask about that our verified lawyers could help us understand we could post those concerns or questions??..Just thinking aloud..

Hope that all made sense :)

But we do need clarification on a couple of these most important upcoming court proceedings, filings, motions, hearings, etc... KWIM?

RSBM:

I think that's a great idea Smooth. The whole court system is a big ? for me....especially when it comes to children's interest. I've only viewed one case with a GAL involvement and that was when both parents and all the children had been murdered with the exception of one 3 yr old that miraculously survived.

I know there is AZLawyer... and gitana1 helped us on the Hailey Dunn threads. Maybe JBean or Believe09 can put in a word for us with someone.
 
She was also back there last week for a few days.

It was mentioned in the media she would be there for 3 weeks. I wonder why she only stayed a few days? I wish we had something more to know--- if it's pointing toward her leaving or foul play. It's troubling and nerve racking for me....I can't imagine what her family and friends are going thru. I feel for you Mac and feel so helpless from my puter. Hang in there.....were all here for all of you.

On her FB page, they are checking off airports and their parking lots. I hope they check all the malls, all the colleges/universities and all the hospitals also.

Everytime I go out I check the many isles of the parking lots at the grocery store or Walmarts, the cars at gas stations and convenience stores for that big red jeep. Although I'm much further west of SM, Interstate 40 goes right thru here and I know it could be a one road shot from there to here since 40 spans the whole country.
 
Humpf?

" Far too many rumors are circulating right now in Tennessee with missing women like Shelley Mook and Gail Palmgren, and it never helps when the panic is intensified by shoddy reporting."


http:///viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979391578
 
The question of why he did not retain a top FAMILY LAW attorney for this angle has stayed on my mind. What I have decided I think about all these filings is that he knows she isn't coming back and that the filings are all for show. The filings would seem to indicate he is preparing to be in a strong legal position when she returns, but if that were truly the case, I don't think he would retain a criminal lawyer to manage his family law case. I think it's all a smoke screen. I continue to think the man has the money to do whatever he thinks is to his advantage. If there were no chance Gail would return, then the filings would be pointless. He doesn't want his actions to indicate he knows she won't return. My opinion.

I agree Pearl. I'm surprised that BH has even taken the case, since he is considered a CRIMINAL DEFENSE attorney. Usually in law circles, if they aren't considered an expert in the field for something that might be this high profile, they want no part of it; they don't want to even think about possibly losing a case. Instead, they would refer you to their colleague/law school friend who is an expert in DIVORCE and CHILD CUSTODY law. JMHO.
 
I agree Pearl. I'm surprised that BH has even taken the case, since he is considered a CRIMINAL DEFENSE attorney. Usually in law circles, if they aren't considered an expert in the field for something that might be this high profile, they want no part of it; they don't want to even think about possibly losing a case. Instead, they would refer you to their colleague/law school friend who is an expert in DIVORCE and CHILD CUSTODY law. JMHO.

From all I hear, I think BH is a smart fellow. My theory is that he's looking at the big picture and the divorce filings are just a technicality. It's not hard to win a case by default.
 
My thought is the kids went into the house and got occupied doing what kids normally do after a long trip.....get on their electronics, etc. MP had called her previously and said he wanted to meet with her to talk w/o the kids...for a short time and then "someone" was waiting for her in hiding and when she came into the house to unload... someone got into the jeep, then surprised her. They could have been in the woods or had access to the garage before she got there. She prolly would've left the keys in the ignition since she would been leaving again. Curious if the dogs were inside or outside dogs. They could have threatened her and had a weapon. Told her if she didn't do as told there was someone watching the kids and they would be hurt. ??? I hope I'm wrong.

BBM..I hope we are both wrong but I have also entertained the same thoughts
 
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