POI - Dale Golder - #2

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RoseWhite said:
Didn't someone speculate once that DG may have been a victim of abuse as a child? If he was, it could explain why he didn't know what was right and wrong as a teen. And could also explain why he was so focused on what happened to Lindsey.
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Hi RoseWhite, I would agree with you except for learning that DG accosted a young girl, holding her captive in his room with the door blocked for over 2 hours. That bodes badly for him IMO. How could anyone in their right mind think that would be a right thing to do. xox
 
scandi said:
Hi Bobbiesangel, Great to see you ;}

If Dale had never met or talked to Lindsey I think your idea could be very possible. It would be a good in for him to get at her, and also mean he knew who she was, right?

We don't know what LE found out, if he really knew her or not. It is what Dale told them. Since Lindsey told an older person a white car was following her and had also approached her gf, telling her he would let her drive, and that Lindsey was scared of this, it makes it all a bit more suspicious for me that he had either given her the eye or flirted with her. In the Affidavit it says many of the staff and residents knew Lindsey as her friend's mom worked there, Libby Nelson.

After just reading thru the Affidavit again I am stunned at the circumstantial findings LE made about Dale. It almost makes one want to shake their head abd say how could we even look at anyone else for this! xox
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Was this guy's car white? Do you think that he is the main suspect in the case but LE is just making sure that they have enough evidence to put him away for good? Maybe they aren't afraid that he will leave town so they aren't in a hurry to arrest him.

Has this guy been in trouble concerning young girls before? Didn't he say he was at work when Lindsey disappeared but when it was checked out...he wasn't at work?

Did LE call in help from other LE to help with the case? This town is small and I wonder how much experience they have in missing person cases or murder cases. Sometimes small PD's pride gets in the way and they won't let anyone else come in and help. I hope that hasn't been the case here.
 
Bobbisangel said:
Was this guy's car white? Do you think that he is the main suspect in the case but LE is just making sure that they have enough evidence to put him away for good? Maybe they aren't afraid that he will leave town so they aren't in a hurry to arrest him.

Has this guy been in trouble concerning young girls before? Didn't he say he was at work when Lindsey disappeared but when it was checked out...he wasn't at work?

Did LE call in help from other LE to help with the case? This town is small and I wonder how much experience they have in missing person cases or murder cases. Sometimes small PD's pride gets in the way and they won't let anyone else come in and help. I hope that hasn't been the case here.
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Yes, POI DG's car is white. I hope LE is still watching him and waiting for forensics to come back.

Yes, according to the affidavit for the search warrant, DG was the suspect in the attempted rape of a child in 2000. He was 14 yo at the time. The victim was 12. He allegedly barricaded the door with a large dresser, removed her pants, and his, and tried to have sex with her. She cried and struggled for about 2 hours and then he released her.

Yes, he originally told the police he was working 6/26 at his second job - a youth camp near Olympia. LE contacted his supervisor and was told he did NOT work there on 6/26 because he had been suspended from work for misbehavior from 6/7 - 6/27. He returned to work on 6/28.
 
Jules71 said:
I really think the area around where she was last seen needs to be searched again and again - especially after reading the stats I previously posted about distance:
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I second or third this or however many times - I believe she is very, very close to where she went missing.

Salem
 
Salem said:
I second or third this or however many times - I believe she is very, very close to where she went missing.

Salem
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After re-reading some of the earlier news stories today, I am still stuck on the lack of hits from the dogs? Not the Harry Oakes dogs, but LE dogs on day 2 and 3? Something is wrong there.
 
Knox said:
After re-reading some of the earlier news stories today, I am still stuck on the lack of hits from the dogs? Not the Harry Oakes dogs, but LE dogs on day 2 and 3? Something is wrong there.
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Are you suggesting LB might not have traveled very far from MK's house? During the first or a subsequent vigil gathering, MK stated she 'saw her at the end of Maple', and I assume MK means east, the direction of 3rd St.

According to the two other witnesses, who I assume saw LB *after* MK saw her, LB was in the 6th-5th street block of Maple.

Also, it is reported that LB 'bathed' before traveling to MK's. I wonder on what scent the dogs were keyed? If the trainer used one of LB's shirts, pants, whatever, there's a chance the dogs would not find a match ... as the trail to MK's would leave 'soap scent'? Just thinking while typing, I do not know if, nor how dogs are trained to key on either person scent or soap scent.

But do we know for sure the dogs did not pick up LB's scent? LE searched that 6th St property 6 times, so I assume something must have suggested LB (or evidence) should be found there.
 
ChuckMaureen said:
Are you suggesting LB might not have traveled very far from MK's house? During the first or a subsequent vigil gathering, MK stated she 'saw her at the end of Maple', and I assume MK means east, the direction of 3rd St.

According to the two other witnesses, who I assume saw LB *after* MK saw her, LB was in the 6th-5th street block of Maple.

Also, it is reported that LB 'bathed' before traveling to MK's. I wonder on what scent the dogs were keyed? If the trainer used one of LB's shirts, pants, whatever, there's a chance the dogs would not find a match ... as the trail to MK's would leave 'soap scent'? Just thinking while typing, I do not know if, nor how dogs are trained to key on either person scent or soap scent.

But do we know for sure the dogs did not pick up LB's scent? LE searched that 6th St property 6 times, so I assume something must have suggested LB (or evidence) should be found there.
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Hi Chuck, You always come up with such interesting and thought provoking posts ;}

I never read a quote from MK about when she last saw Lindsey walking home, maybe because she is a minor. But her mother KK stated MK watched Lindsey walk until the tree foliage obscured her view right about 6th St.

That also fits with the Affidavit that said she was last seen close to 6th and Maple. The 5th St remark I discount even tho I don't know who said that {seen between 5th and 6th} due to what was said in the Affidavit.

Do we know if LE searched only the property of JM or the buildings as well? He has that beautiful shop bldg which is a major improvement. And at this point he might be involved with that SAR company that Momtective discovered. Maybe that was a consideration for the thorough searches there. I always thought someone saw her walking up or turning right on 6th, possibly someone at the Beehive Center. That is pure speculation.

The other property the Beehive owns is on Fir I believe and on the S side of the street. The Beehive takes up the whole block between Fir and Maple across from it. We've never researched that place in depth.

And about those dern LE dogs. I think they were live scent tracking dogs as LE was in a rescue mode and not a recovery one. All they said was her scent was becoming faint at the Park I believe. They let out no other info that I am aware of about the dogs, on purpose IMO.

The gentleman at the Bldg Dept told me LE had searched the Water Tower area with dogs almost right away after she disappeared. Where else have we learned they took the LE dogs? There is a RUMOR LE recently re-searched the Water Tower area again with dogs. I think there is a whole lot about the dogs we have not been told about. xox
 
scandi said:
Hi Chuck, You always come up with such interesting and thought provoking posts ;}

I never read a quote from MK about when she last saw Lindsey walking home, maybe because she is a minor. But her mother KK stated MK watched Lindsey walk until the tree foliage obscured her view right about 6th St.

That also fits with the Affidavit that said she was last seen close to 6th and Maple. The 5th St remark I discount even tho I don't know who said that {seen between 5th and 6th} due to what was said in the Affidavit.

Do we know if LE searched only the property of JM or the buildings as well? He has that beautiful shop bldg which is a major improvement. And at this point he might be involved with that SAR company that Momtective discovered. Maybe that was a consideration for the thorough searches there. I always thought someone saw her walking up or turning right on 6th, possibly someone at the Beehive Center. That is pure speculation.

The other property the Beehive owns is on Fir I believe and on the S side of the street. The Beehive takes up the whole block between Fir and Maple across from it. We've never researched that place in depth.

And about those dern LE dogs. I think they were live scent tracking dogs as LE was in a rescue mode and not a recovery one. All they said was her scent was becoming faint at the Park I believe. They let out no other info that I am aware of about the dogs, on purpose IMO.

The gentleman at the Bldg Dept told me LE had searched the Water Tower area with dogs almost right away after she disappeared. Where else have we learned they took the LE dogs? There is a RUMOR LE recently re-searched the Water Tower area again with dogs. I think there is a whole lot about the dogs we have not been told about. xox
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Thank you, scandi! Your comment is much appreciated.

Regarding MK's statement, "I saw Lindsey at the end of Maple" ... that comment was not filtered through news print nor a tv reporter. I watched a news video of MK making that statement as she held up either drawings or messages she and their friends had created for LB. I wish I could recall where I saw the video, but I do recall it was recorded during a vigil [she was introduced by someone at the mic then she began to speak, I think her mother was standing next to her].

I also watched an earlier video of MK, recorded in front of hers or LB's house, stating something about LB: MK was reading from an LB flier and when she got to the part about LB weighing '80 pounds', MK stated, "well, she's really 95 pounds.".

So, we have information from a case principal (MK) directly contradicting the 'for-public-consumption' disseminated information. 'End of Maple' and '95 pounds'. I must state that LB does seem to be taller in one of the photos [wearing 'Mommies Little Trouble Maker' shirt] than that listed on the fliers ... perhaps the background or pic angle makes me perceive it that way?

As for the dogs, if it was publicly announced exactly where scent was detected, LE would have to contend with amateurs arriving on the scene trampling on 'hot' areas ... certainly not a good situation.

Water Tower: it's probably a hang-out area.

And ... has anyone stated they are searching only for LB's scent?
 
Chuck, I'm wondering if MKs comment about "end of Maple" meant in front of her (MKs) house since it sits at the end of Maple and that's where she, herself, is saying she last saw her.

And you are correct on the Water Tower.. pretty popular hang out area for kids (of every age) in McCleary.
 
JenniferO said:
Chuck, I'm wondering if MKs comment about "end of Maple" meant in front of her (MKs) house since it sits at the end of Maple and that's where she, herself, is saying she last saw her.

And you are correct on the Water Tower.. pretty popular hang out area for kids (of every age) in McCleary.
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~~~

Thanks for the info about the Water Tower being a popular hang out.

Do they skate over there, too? (skateboard?)
 
JenniferO said:
Chuck, I'm wondering if MKs comment about "end of Maple" meant in front of her (MKs) house since it sits at the end of Maple and that's where she, herself, is saying she last saw her.

And you are correct on the Water Tower.. pretty popular hang out area for kids (of every age) in McCleary.
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Hi, JennO!

If that is the case I expect MK would have stated, "I saw Lindsey in front of my house."?

And your confirmation of the Water Tower being a popular hang-out. As I commented, were they also scenting for others, such as POIs in that area, and not just for LB?

I've wondered for some time why LE searched JM's property so many times. LE might have been searching for others scents there, as well. I read LE obtained many search warrants. Suppose LE obtained scent keys from specific houses, to use in the JM and Water Tower and other area searches?

And, I expect, LE probably searched areas to confirm story lines, locations, etc, i.e.: were MK and LB really at JM's creek that evening before eventually arriving to MK's, or to confirm certain others were there? MOO

Were there any open street constructions, re-paves, water / gas / sewage pipe digs on 06/26, 06/27?
 
CorallaroC said:
~~~

Thanks for the info about the Water Tower being a popular hang out.

Do they skate over there, too? (skateboard?)
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I'm not sure. I guess anything is possible but I think the area around the water tower is grass/woods making skating impossible. I've never been up there so I don't know what it is like.
 
ChuckMaureen said:
Hi, JennO!

<snipped>
Were there any open street constructions, re-paves, water / gas / sewage pipe digs on 06/26, 06/27?
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No idea. I don't live in McCleary and I think the last time I was in McCleary (prior to the end of August) was February
 
ChuckMaureen said:
Hi, JennO!

If that is the case I expect MK would have stated, "I saw Lindsey in front of my house."?

And your confirmation of the Water Tower being a popular hang-out. As I commented, were they also scenting for others, such as POIs in that area, and not just for LB?

I've wondered for some time why LE searched JM's property so many times. LE might have been searching for others scents there, as well. I read LE obtained many search warrants. Suppose LE obtained scent keys from specific houses, to use in the JM and Water Tower and other area searches?

And, I expect, LE probably searched areas to confirm story lines, locations, etc, i.e.: were MK and LB really at JM's creek that evening before eventually arriving to MK's, or to confirm certain others were there? MOO

Were there any open street constructions, re-paves, water / gas / sewage pipe digs on 06/26, 06/27?
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Hi Chuck, When I talked to the Dispatcher that time she patched me thru to some office - and the lady there told me yes, there were many SW's and they are all of public record and anyone can write a written request for an appt to go read them in person. That is how they do it there. I want to say the Prosecutor's office, not sure.

It would just be a bit of work for a local. Write a letter, be given an appointment time and then take the time reading - Oh, and of course, then reporting back to us! :D:D:D

One more thing, yes, the Water Tower is a local hang out from what I've read. But it is also surrounded by logging roads that connect to the main road that becomes Cedar St and leads W to 3rd St, {correct me if I am wrong about that} and are even visible on a satellite map. And there is a logging road that comes down off of Mommsen Rd that goes to the WT.
 
I'm still trying to wrap my head around these items, sourced here:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49383897.html

"I've tried to keep the thought of somebody grabbing her out of my mind," says her mother, Melissa Baum.

She says Lindsey argued with her brother on her way to a friend's house Friday night. She talked to her friend for a bit, then started for home as darkness fell.
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In the above quote, there is no mention of other friends. Just, "that she [LB] talked to her friend for a bit". Not plural. Friend. MB did not say LB walked toward home with <insert name here>.

Continue reading for why I am highlighting this point.

The friend's father, Scott Williams, said he asked Lindsey to go home before it got too dark. "She was here 10, 15 minutes, and then, you know, we said, 'You should probably get going before it gets dark,' and that was the last we heard of her," he said.
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In the above quote, SW states, "asked Lindsey to go". Also, no mention of any other friends involved in the scene.

But then we have this:

Witnesses say Lindsey seemed normal as she headed out around 9:15. Another friend even walked her part of the way, but Lindsey never showed up at her home.
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We may assume "witnesses" to be KK, SW and MK, given the phrase: "headed out". I interpret that as meaning, 'just leaving'. So it stands to reason, the "witnesses" are the house occupants.

But .... what about the "another friend" item?

When did this [an]other friend appear? Who is the friend? Age? Did SW also tell the friend to go home? Was the friend an adult? No mention of the other friend in previous paragraphs.

This is one of a few key early issues in this case. I know this has been hashed and re-hashed, and shrugged off as mistaken reporting but I do not read it as such.

If there were many more principals involved in that scene, I would understand a mixup or confusion in reporting.


But the only principals inside MK's house that evening, we have:
  • KK
  • SW
  • MK
  • LB
  • MK's siblings? (Were any of them present, in first-person? Were they in their bedrooms? Unknown, I did not locate a report regarding MK's siblings whereabouts for that evening).
Which one of those principals [minus LB, of course] told a reporter that "another friend even walked her part of the way" ?

Let's go to the next scene, outside of MK's house:

http://www.komonews.com/news/49891642.html

Lindsey was last seen at the corner of 6th and Maple heading home from her friend's house at about 9:15 p.m last Friday.
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Again no mention of "walking with someone".

Before that 04/03/2009 news item was published, the second witness had already come forward:

http://www.komonews.com/news/local/49651607.html

On Wednesday a second person came forward to report having seen Lindsey Baum on Friday night as she walked home along Maple Street from a friend's house
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I did not locate a story on that web site that reported on a 'first witness'. Sloppy reporting, that.

The relevant point is that the 6th Street west corner is very close to MK's house. Either KK, SW, MK or an MK sibling walked LB out their door, possibly to the 6th St. west corner and then subsequent witness(es) saw LB on or after that corner.

... OR ...

Someone from MK's house that evening lied to the reporter (or police?) about what really occured.

Why did the story change and, just as important, why did the report include "another friend"?
 
(snipped)
ChuckMaureen said:
But then we have this:
Witnesses say Lindsey seemed normal as she headed out around 9:15. Another friend even walked her part of the way, but Lindsey never showed up at her home.
Click to expand...

...

But .... what about the "another friend" item?

When did this [an]other friend appear? Who is the friend? Age? Did SW also tell the friend to go home? Was the friend an adult? No mention of the other friend in previous paragraphs.

...

Why did the story change and, just as important, why did the report include "another friend"?
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I agree it is really important that we get an answer to this. How do we go about doing that tho? Who walked her part of the way home? Who all was in the Kampen home at the time Lindsey left?
 
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