Girl with red shorts and white top

LadyL said:

wow, do you know if that is/was a common practice among runaways? I've never heard of that before ...

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I don't know, sorry. I am the same runaway that called home collect every Sunday night at 6pm and then promptly changed cities, ugh. I do know that another runaway taught me to write on my foot like that though. I think the theory was that most guys weren't interested in removing our shoes...

What I DO know, IMO is
those shorts are not red. They are blue and white engineer shorts. Like the engineer bib overalls. They only look red because there is some kind of red filter on the camera or possibly due to the developing process. I don't know much about cameras or developing sorry. IMO

Pink Panther said:

Possible?

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pickle_sherry.html

The Charlie Page comment about her ankle also caught my attention.

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Wasn't Alcala incarcerated at the time of her disappearance? For the "Tali" case, I think.

Mr. E said:

Wasn't Alcala incarcerated at the time of her disappearance? For the "Tali" case, I think.

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Yes, he was incarcerated from August 12, 1971 to August 3, 1974. If Sherry Jean Pickle was a runaway who hadn't met with foul play prior to his getting out of jail, she could have met him after he did. It just struck me that she also looked like the girl in the Alcala pictures and then when I read the Charley page I also noticed the comment about her ankle.

Are this girl and the "Girl with glasses" the same girl?
The photo of Dorothy Clitheroe with glasses looks amazingly like "Girl with glasses" to me.
I hope this doesn't blow the margins...:}
Top photos Alcala bottom photos Dorothy Clitheroe
I'm going to post this in both threads
:>)

Anyone else notice the right eye of both girls? Lazy eye?

Did someone submit this as Dorothy Clitheroe and did you hear anything back?

Okay I see now tutmed and joefromLB both submitted this, did either of you get a response?

I bet this turns out to be a match. The pictures really look like the same girl. I hope you all hear back if it is or not.

:>)

Anyone hear anything on this? Measuring in snail time here, some things take waaaay longer than we think they should.

How do they know if it is her or not? If I'm not mistaken, she is a missing child, right? So, they do not have a body or DNA. And this child has been missing since 1973? That's 37 years. Her parents are easily in their 70s or 80s now. Do they show the photos to her siblings or parents and ask if it looks like her? How do they determine if it's a match or not? I'm just trying to get a feel for the process.

One of the more recent articles stated she was not a match. It is an amazing coincidence though.

Redbird said:

One of the more recent articles stated she was not a match. It is an amazing coincidence though.

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Can you link that article? I haven't seen anything on Dorothy Clitheroe being ruled out as a match, only Cherry Greenman.

Billylee said:

Can you link that article? I haven't seen anything on Dorothy Clitheroe being ruled out as a match, only Cherry Greenman.

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Yeah, it seemed like there was such silence about the Clitheroe submissions that there might be something to it. But maybe it didn't pan out.

Here's the Greenman article:
http://www.crimenews2000.com/news.php?extend.2520

King County Sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart said a tipster reported that one of the photos taken from Alcala looked like Cherry Greenman, who was last seen leaving a jail in 1976. But after receiving a better copy of the photo and showing it to the family, investigators concluded it was not her, he said.

So no word on Dorothy C...as of yet...unless I missed it somewhere:waitasec:

brandi said:

Here's the Greenman article:
http://www.crimenews2000.com/news.php?extend.2520

King County Sheriff's Sgt. John Urquhart said a tipster reported that one of the photos taken from Alcala looked like Cherry Greenman, who was last seen leaving a jail in 1976. But after receiving a better copy of the photo and showing it to the family, investigators concluded it was not her, he said.

So no word on Dorothy C...as of yet...unless I missed it somewhere:waitasec:

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That'd be news to me also.
Still amazing to me that the PD actually is finally "asking" for public help and then gives no response! I realize that after freakin' holding on to these photos for for some 31 years, it just might be a wee bit tough for LE to find relatives of the people that have been proposed as a match, but for cryin' out loud, why can't they at least respond to the people who submit the match, that it is at least being looked into. Shoot, (and I'm being nice) they could at least send a freakin' form letter! :banghead:

These photo's that resemble Suzanne Schultz were found by police in serial killer Rodney Alcala's storage unit.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/feature?section=news&id=7398111

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1182dfwi.html

Schultz contacted her family on July 29, 1979 from Tampa, Florida, where she was believed to be staying with a male companion. She said that she would be returning home, but she failed to do so.
The vehicle in which she was traveling was later found abandoned in Chicago, Illinois.

Alcala was arrested July 24, 1979 in CA and has been incarcerated ever since.

Not her. Schultz has small earlobes, attached. The young woman in the picture has rather large unattached earlobes.

alknon said:

These photo's that resemble Suzanne Schultz were found by police in serial killer Rodney Alcala's storage unit.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/feature?section=news&id=7398111

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1182dfwi.html

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Not even close, imo.

dsntslp said:

The girl in the engineer shorts (blue and white stripes) in the pic that looks like it has been taken through a red filter has very ugly bruising on both legs. Her right leg has two round marks the size of fists and her left leg has a band of bruising that is quite a few inches long and at least an inch wide. She also has a left ankle that is so swollen looking that it is hard to discern an ankle bone but when I see that same ankle in her other pic it looks normal, so idk. Maybe it was just the way she was standing. (From memory here, apologies if slightly off.) And that is one of two pic's where I believe the subject has writing on her arm, perhaps it says "Alcala" or something. I can see it but can't read it. She is pointing to it even.

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Here is a link to a post about a skeleton found in New Mexico, that has a skeletal formation of the ankle associated with habitually walking pigeon toed. Sort of makes me wonder whether maybe that is what was happening for engineer shorts girl here? I'm linking it here and linking this there so that people reading either thread can consider it.

NM NM - Unidentified Female Case # 696UFNM - AMW case link - Oct. 1995 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Very good likeness there!

But I do see a few small differences. There are some very small things that could be explained away given the passage of a few years after that school photo.

The fold of her upper eyelid can be seen all the way across her eyes in the Alcala pictures. Can't see that same detail in the school picture.

The spaces between the bridge of her nose and the inner eye, isn't nearly as full as it is in her school picture.

Her lower eye fold or puffiness under eyes are also much fuller in the School pictures.

The inner edge of her eyebrows have more hair extending towards the middle of her face in the School pictures, but I can see in the Clitheroe picture with her glasses, that area has been plucked. The area looks like it has been plucked recently (in the last week or so) in the Alcala pictures, meaning no regrowth that I can see. So if she was a runaway living on the streets, she had to have some access to tweezers and grooming. I wonder if Alcala provided this for her and his other victims. High unlikely, just a thought.

I think she also has plucked her eyebrows going toward the side of her face, making them look thinner and not as down curved as they are in her school photo.

In the school picture her chin is also a bit pointier than the Alcala picture. It could be just the frozen tense smile we all had for school photos that make it look different, though.

Just by the loss of fullness of her eye areas, while her face doesn't look "thinner" I think those pictures were probably taken a year or two after she disappeared. We tend to lose some of that youthful fullness (especially around the eye areas) in our later teens. I'm sure being a runaway in stressful conditions could speed up that process, though.

The rest of her facial dimensions seem to match, in my inexperienced opinion!