George Zimmerman's Injuries #1

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
cityslick said:
Is he fighting the discovery as a whole or fighting the redaction of information pertaining to witness names, etc?
Click to expand...

I thought it had to do with witness protection.
I may have missed something though.

I have not been following close the past couple of weeks.

softball....softball....softball.....
 
prayers4missing said:
BBM

Any half way decent doctor is not going to go on what the patient says alone to get a diagnosis. I have been in the medical field for 15 years and never once have I seen a diagnosis made without some kind of exam of the situation. Not to mention as others have stated an xray is not needed to diagnosis a broken nose. Swelling, discoloration, touching it, moving it, and information from the patient help make a diagnosis.

:moo:
Click to expand...

Agreed, no doc goes simply on the words of their patient, but as you mention later in your post, information from the patient is a part of the diagnosis process and the accuracy of the information provided can play a role in an accurate diagnosis.
 
who said:
The medical report said "We discussed that it was likely broken, but does not appear to have septal deviation."

As to head lacerations: "sutures needed given well approximated skin margins."
Click to expand...

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/tra...rt-shows-16357205?tab=9482931&section=1206833

--scalp lacerations: NO sutures needed..

--also, anyone know what a diagnosis of IBS refers to? K Z ??

georgenosutures.jpg
 
jjenny said:
After all the complains about wanting to see medical records, I can't believe some posters here complain that medical records were leaked. All of this information is supposed to be released per Florida sunshine laws.
Click to expand...

Yes, but would prefer the documents themselves and not a media leak.
 
K_Z said:
No way any imaging can tell that. He had a non displaced septum. The medscape article I posted upthread goes into great detail on comparative studies of imaging of nasal fractures, both bony and cartilage. The error rate precludes imaging as definitive proof of even the presence or absence of fracture, let alone the forces which may have caused a fracture.

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/391863-overview
Click to expand...

Don't you love Medscape? I used to frequently research there for answers to questions and still occasionally do so.
 
cityslick said:
It's coming from a doctor's report. I should pull up posts from early on where everyone stated emphatically that they want to see to doctor's report as proof of injuries.

First it's the police report that wasn't accurate in saying GZ had injuries. Then it's the video that's been altered. Then the photo on the back of the head is a fake. Now a doctor's report says he had injuries.

I mean, how many times do we continue to dismiss this stuff. What if the EMT report also says he had injuries.
Click to expand...

Hi Cityslick, maybe you can answer a question I have?

Why would a doctor acquiesce to Zimmerman that his nose was broken when George not only refused to see an ENT physician who specializes in noses -- but also apparently refused to have his nose X-rayed when X-ray equipment and X-ray technologists were right there inside the DO's "Altamonte Family Practice" office?

Wouldn't George want X-ray proof of a broken nose if his nose was really broken?

I have never said that George had no injuries. However, I've never believed he had anywhere near the serious injuries his father, brother and friends said he had.

I believe the doctor's report confirms my suspicions and NOT his family's gross exaggerations.

Was George's head continually smashed into concrete until he was nearly unconscious and one blow away from wearing diapers and being spoon fed the rest of his life by his brother ?

NO -- the evidence certainly does not support that statement. Two tiny cuts on George's head that did not need stitches or even a band-aid are not indicative of multiple head-smashings on concrete. Neither was George's normal agility, balance and appearance at the Sanford PD, 35 minutes after the fatal shooting.

Do I believe that Trayvon was covering George's nose and mouth while George was choking from copious amounts of blood flowing down his throat from his *broken nose.*

NO -- because number 1. The doctor did NOT confirm George DID have a broken nose and number 2. Copious amounts of blood would have either suffocated George or flowed into his stomach -- in which case, he would have been vomiting blood at the police station and probably would have had bloody diarrhea besides.

Human stomachs do NOT tolerate fresh raw blood. They barf it out violently.

Did you see the photographs of Rhianna right after Chris Brown beat her up?

That's what a person looks like who has just sustained a severe beating. Did George Zimmerman look anywhere near that bad? HARDLY!

Even if Zimmerman was the biggest wimpy wuss in Florida his injuries were still NOT life threatening. His family stated they absolutely were!

They all LIE too much. Therefore, I won't believe anything they say without absolute, convincing proof.

imo, and millions of others
 
GrandmaTo4 said:
Hi Cityslick, maybe you can answer a question I have?

Why would a doctor acquiesce to Zimmerman that his nose was broken when George not only refused to see an ENT physician who specializes in noses -- but also apparently refused to have his nose X-rayed when X-ray equipment and X-ray technologists were right there inside the DO's "Altamonte Family Practice" office?

Wouldn't George want X-ray proof of a broken nose if his nose was really broken?

I have never said that George had no injuries. However, I've never believed he had anywhere near the serious injuries his father, brother and friends said he had.

I believe the doctor's report confirms my suspicions and NOT his family's gross exaggerations.

Was George's head continually smashed into concrete until he was nearly unconscious and one blow away from wearing diapers and being spoon fed the rest of his life by his brother ?

NO -- the evidence certainly does not support that statement. Two tiny cuts on George's head that did not need stitches or even a band-aid are not indicative of multiple head-smashings on concrete. Neither was George's normal agility, balance and appearance at the Sanford PD, 35 minutes after the fatal shooting.

Do I believe that Trayvon was covering George's nose and mouth while George was choking from copious amounts of blood flowing down his throat from his *broken nose.*

NO -- because number 1. The doctor did NOT confirm George DID have a broken nose and number 2. Copious amounts of blood would have either suffocated George or flowed into his stomach -- in which case, he would have been vomiting blood at the police station and probably would have had bloody diarrhea besides.

Human stomachs do NOT tolerate fresh raw blood. They barf it out violently.

Did you see the photographs of Rhianna right after Chris Brown beat her up?

That's what a person looks like who has just sustained a severe beating. Did George Zimmerman look anywhere near that bad? HARDLY!

Even if Zimmerman was the biggest wimpy wuss in Florida his injuries were still NOT life threatening. His family stated they absolutely were!

They all LIE too much. Therefore, I won't believe anything they say without absolute, convincing proof.

imo, and millions of others
Click to expand...
Excellent post!!!:goodpost::clap::clap::clap:
 
Karmady said:
Well, for one thing, he established that there is not, and likely never will be, any evidence of who started the physical altercation. He went pretty much line-by-line over the affidavit and pointed out each and every slanted and/or biased and/or unsupported statement in it. And, when he was done, his client, accused of murder2 in a high profile racially charged case with lots of political undertones, was released on minimal bail and permitted to leave the state.

I watched the whole thing a couple of times and agree with the commentators that he did a great job in casting doubt on all of the relevant parts of the affidavit. I don't think he's terribly concerned about the supposed inconsistent statements. The State's concept of inconsistent is likely very different than the defense's. I think O'Mara would be surprised if there were NOT some perceived inconsistencies, if not actual inconsistencies. The real question is whether they are material and/or explainable, keeping mind the State's burden of proving the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. jmo
Click to expand...

MOM was basically trying to try the case through Gilbreath without the benefit of witnesses. Gilbreath is not a witness. He could not testify to anything other than what he has investigated and even then he can only be vague. MOM got done what he intended but it in no way will compare to a trial, IMO. jmo
 
GrandmaTo4 said:
Hi Cityslick, maybe you can answer a question I have?

Why would a doctor acquiesce to Zimmerman that his nose was broken when George not only refused to see an ENT physician who specializes in noses -- but also apparently refused to have his nose X-rayed when X-ray equipment and X-ray technologists were right there inside the DO's "Altamonte Family Practice" office?

<snip for brevity>
Click to expand...

There are many reasons. Some of them might be:
- Cost
- Being "macho"
- Wanting to get some sleep
 
prayers4missing said:
BBM

Any half way decent doctor is not going to go on what the patient says alone to get a diagnosis. I have been in the medical field for 15 years and never once have I seen a diagnosis made without some kind of exam of the situation. Not to mention as others have stated an xray is not needed to diagnosis a broken nose. Swelling, discoloration, touching it, moving it, and information from the patient help make a diagnosis.

:moo:
Click to expand...

And sometimes, as I'm sure you know, merely moving the nose back and forth one can detect a grinding of the bones against each other.
 
Phoenixfla said:
Or just perhaps the training that they received in medical school allowed them to determine a nose is broken without any x-ray?

Personally I have never heard of getting an x-ray for a broken nose.
Click to expand...

I believe that with bones where nothing is able to be done, they dont xray to confirm as someone upthread said it would not alter the treatment.

this is typically true with broken baby toes, noses, and tailbones (I know the tailbone firsthand :p after the birth of my second I complained of pain to the midwife who examined then told me it was almost certainly fractured but there was nothing they could do medically, just to stay off of it and whatnot. it went in the record as probably broken and I maintain to this day it was broken, the forking thing STILL hurts if I sit on it funny!)
 
suzihawk said:
I wonder why he's fighting the release of the discovery as allowed by the Florida Sunshine laws, if he's not 'terribly concerned', ? Or why he waived his client's right to a speedy trial? Why would he want to drag his client through a long and painful ordeal if it's a slam dunk? Aside from the money rolling in, that is?
Click to expand...

I think he waived the right to a speedy trial so that he will be as prepared as possible, including retaining experts, and much, much more. I also think that the longer this drags out with his client out of state and out of jail, the interest of the court of public opinion will wane, and that benefits George.

Afaik, he's not fighting the release, he's just taking the normal precautions that any good defense attorney would to make sure that confidential or prejudical information (like witness information) is not disclosed. The State and the Court all seem to be on the same page with him on that, so even if it might otherwise "concern" me (which it probably wouldn't), it definitely doesn't concern me in this case.

I also don't have a problem with the money rolling in for the defense. In fact, I'm glad, VERY glad. Imo, this became a railroading extraoridinaire as soon as Crump got involved. I don't fault anyone for giving or taking money for the defense under the circumstances. jmo
 
BiancaS said:
I would imagine that this doctor also wanted to protect himself with the documentation. GZ told him he was not going to go to an ENT, the doctor would want to have that noted in his file. He probably also realized this was not a normal situation and his file could come under examination at some point.
Click to expand...

You know, I kind of pity this doctor. GZ came to him and accurate records were kept and he was appropriately treated and he went on to the next patient and probably didn't think much more about it. I don't know if he realizes it or not but he is going to be torn to shreds in court if it ever comes to trial. It reminds me of that other noted trial in FL last year where Dr. Vass and many other professional witnesses were really treated as if they were the defendant. And as to how GZ got these injuries, the doctor only has GZ's word for it. Pity.
 
LambChop said:
MOM was basically trying to try the case through Gilbreath without the benefit of witnesses. Gilbreath is not a witness. He could not testify to anything other than what he has investigated and even then he can only be vague. MOM got done what he intended but it in no way will compare to a trial, IMO. jmo
Click to expand...

I disagree. As O'Mara pointed out frequently during his questioning, Gilbreath executed the PCA -- meaning he vouched for the truth of every syllable based on his own PERSONAL knowledge. If he only had vague knowledge of the truth of the allegations in the affidavit, he needed to educate himself sufficiently to swear to them. Otherwise, the affidavit is deficient. Gilbreath is locked in to the basis of his knowledge at the time he signed the PCA. It may be true that he shouldn't have sworn to certain things because he only had vague or secondhand knowledge of the information, but that was precisely O'Mara's point based on his knowledge of what an affidavit is. jmo
 
GrandmaTo4 said:
Hi Cityslick, maybe you can answer a question I have?

Why would a doctor acquiesce to Zimmerman that his nose was broken when George not only refused to see an ENT physician who specializes in noses -- but also apparently refused to have his nose X-rayed when X-ray equipment and X-ray technologists were right there inside the DO's "Altamonte Family Practice" office?

We have no evidence GZ refused an xray at the FP clinic, which I belive strongly was never offered. Xrays are not reliable for diagnosis of cartilage fractures-- too many false negatives and false positives. Here is a good link explaining:

http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/391863-overview

Wouldn't George want X-ray proof of a broken nose if his nose was really broken?

Patients don't always understand what the best medical course of action is. Patients can't just demand a certain procedure from a health care provider. They can suggest, but the health care provider uses professional judgement and evidence based practices to determine diagnostic tests and treatment.

I have never said that George had no injuries. However, I've never believed he had anywhere near the serious injuries his father, brother and friends said he had.

(Snipped for space)

Do I believe that Trayvon was covering George's nose and mouth while George was choking from copious amounts of blood flowing down his throat from his *broken nose.*

Nope. I dont' believe that either. RZ should keep his mouth shut. All of that is hearsay.

NO -- because number 1. The doctor did NOT confirm George DID have a broken nose and number

Apparently the health care provider did document a presumed fracture of the cartilage from what we can see in the narrative. We don't have the H & P yet-- the exam notes.

2. Copious amounts of blood would have either suffocated George or flowed into his stomach -- in which case, he would have been vomiting blood at the police station and probably would have had bloody diarrhea besides.

I don't think GZ swallowed much, if any blood. A small amount of blood in the stomach does not always cause vomiting. People who swallow blood do not have "bloody diarrhea"-- they have black, tarry stools from digestion of the blood in the small intestine (and usually a few days after the upper GI ingestion of the blood.) Bloody diarrhea is caused from a lower GI source of bleeding, such as the distal large intestine, rectum, etc.

Human stomachs do NOT tolerate fresh raw blood. They barf it out violently.

Not always. Not by a loong shot. A large amt, yes, probably. But not necessarily from small amounts. Everyone is different. Sometimes the first evidence of an upper GI bleed is the patient complaining of tarry black stools, which indicated digested blood of upper GI origin.

Did you see the photographs of Rhianna right after Chris Brown beat her up?

That's what a person looks like who has just sustained a severe beating. Did George Zimmerman look anywhere near that bad? HARDLY!

Even if Zimmerman was the biggest wimpy wuss in Florida his injuries were still NOT life threatening. His family stated they absolutely were!

His family is not an authoritative source of the severity of his injuries. Not in a court of law.

They all LIE too much. Therefore, I won't believe anything they say without absolute, convincing proof.

imo, and millions of others
Click to expand...

My comments in blue above in the quoted post.
 
GrandmaTo4 said:
Hi Cityslick, maybe you can answer a question I have?

Why would a doctor acquiesce to Zimmerman that his nose was broken when George not only refused to see an ENT physician who specializes in noses -- but also apparently refused to have his nose X-rayed when X-ray equipment and X-ray technologists were right there inside the DO's "Altamonte Family Practice" office?

Wouldn't George want X-ray proof of a broken nose if his nose was really broken?

I have never said that George had no injuries. However, I've never believed he had anywhere near the serious injuries his father, brother and friends said he had.

I believe the doctor's report confirms my suspicions and NOT his family's gross exaggerations.

Was George's head continually smashed into concrete until he was nearly unconscious and one blow away from wearing diapers and being spoon fed the rest of his life by his brother ?

NO -- the evidence certainly does not support that statement. Two tiny cuts on George's head that did not need stitches or even a band-aid are not indicative of multiple head-smashings on concrete. Neither was George's normal agility, balance and appearance at the Sanford PD, 35 minutes after the fatal shooting.

Do I believe that Trayvon was covering George's nose and mouth while George was choking from copious amounts of blood flowing down his throat from his *broken nose.*

NO -- because number 1. The doctor did NOT confirm George DID have a broken nose and number 2. Copious amounts of blood would have either suffocated George or flowed into his stomach -- in which case, he would have been vomiting blood at the police station and probably would have had bloody diarrhea besides.

Human stomachs do NOT tolerate fresh raw blood. They barf it out violently.

Did you see the photographs of Rhianna right after Chris Brown beat her up?

That's what a person looks like who has just sustained a severe beating. Did George Zimmerman look anywhere near that bad? HARDLY!

Even if Zimmerman was the biggest wimpy wuss in Florida his injuries were still NOT life threatening. His family stated they absolutely were!

They all LIE too much. Therefore, I won't believe anything they say without absolute, convincing proof.

imo, and millions of others
Click to expand...

They do not have to be life threatening to be able to defend yourself under SYG. Was this guy's life in danger when he chased, stabbed and killed someone because he was 'robbed'?

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/27/2717572/miami-dade-issues-ruling-in-stand.html

The doctor would not put on the report that he had a broken nose, likely or otherwise, simply because GZ told him so.
 
Lovelymountains said:
You know, I kind of pity this doctor. GZ came to him and accurate records were kept and he was appropriately treated and he went on to the next patient and probably didn't think much more about it. I don't know if he realizes it or not but he is going to be torn to shreds in court if it ever comes to trial. It reminds me of that other noted trial in FL last year where Dr. Vass and many other professional witnesses were really treated as if they were the defendant. And as to how GZ got these injuries, the doctor only has GZ's word for it. Pity.
Click to expand...

Totally agree. And I also want to point out that there is a very good chance he saw one of the PA's in the office, which would have been totally, 100% appropriate. Both of the PA's have excellent educational credentials listed-- far in excess of the minimum necessary for practice as a PA. I am quite concerned that if it was a PA who saw GZ, that she will be absolutely shredded simply because she is not a physician.

PA's practice very independently, and are not required to have every decision and every exam "co-signed" by a doc. They must practice in a group with physicians, and can't bill independently for their services-- but a physician is not even required to be onsite in most locations. In most states, they are licensed under the medical board. There is no reason a PA couldn't have very competently handled GZ's visit. (I almost feel the need to preemptively support these providers.... )

Regardless of who saw GZ in the office, I agree that every little thing in the report will be picked apart and second guessed. I really fear for the reputation and career of the provider. I'm sure the entire clinic staff was dreading the day that medical record became public. Every single person even peripherally associated with GZ has been picked to shreds by the public. The just went to work that day, and got unwittingly caught up in a firestorm. :(
 
Karmady said:
I think he waived the right to a speedy trial so that he will be as prepared as possible, including retaining experts, and much, much more. I also think that the longer this drags out with his client out of state and out of jail, the interest of the court of public opinion will wane, and that benefits George.

Afaik, he's not fighting the release, he's just taking the normal precautions that any good defense attorney would to make sure that confidential or prejudical information (like witness information) is not disclosed. The State and the Court all seem to be on the same page with him on that, so even if it might otherwise "concern" me (which it probably wouldn't), it definitely doesn't concern me in this case.

I also don't have a problem with the money rolling in for the defense. In fact, I'm glad, VERY glad. Imo, this became a railroading extraoridinaire as soon as Crump got involved. I don't fault anyone for giving or taking money for the defense under the circumstances. jmo
Click to expand...

If Crump had not gotten involved, in all fairness, we never would have heard of Trayvon Martin and GZ would not have been charged with a crime.

My understanding is that MOM delayed the discovery process. He now says it is to protect the witnesses, but I don't believe he filed the necessary motion until very, very recently, long after the discovery would have been released.

I think we will be seeing most if not all of the doc dump very soon, which is why the medical report was leaked. Look, over there!!! Kind of like the CA case, distractions right before anything happened, including doc dumps.

All just MOO!!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 69 more.
Total: 2,259 (members: 70, guests: 2,189)

Online statistics

Members online
70
Guests online
2,189
Total visitors
2,259
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,183
Messages
17,964,807
Members
228,714
Latest member
hannahdunnam
Back
Top