Skull fracture question

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Let's say two people fall from the roof of a building. In one case the person is deliberately pushed off the roof. In the other case some people are playing around and one of them accidentally falls off the roof.

How would the ground know which is which? Wouldn't it treat them both the same?
 
Albert18 said:
Let's say two people fall from the roof of a building. In one case the person is deliberately pushed off the roof. In the other case some people are playing around and one of them accidentally falls off the roof.

How would the ground know which is which? Wouldn't it treat them both the same?
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The doornob!!! I took out my tape measure ( no small accomlishment post stroke and bleeds into the brain ) I am stunned!! With what fore would her head have had to strike to create that damage. Sorry math is not my high suite anymore I tied my own shoes last week though. There is hope for me yet!
 
rashomon said:
But who says it must have been a blow? If she was slammed against a hard surface, almost any angle would be possible.
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rashomon,

Then it would be an accident and the parent would dial 911 for AE.

Maybe she was slammed, but only after being manually strangled.

If all that happened was Patsy becoming enraged with JonBenet, and unintentionally slamming her against some hard surface, why no call to the emergency services, why no medical assistance, they had JonBenet to hospital fast when Burke whacked with the golf club.

What unintentional slamming requires unheard of staging in a child homicide, and a sexual assault cleaned up, and hidden from view?


.
 
Albert18 said:
Let's say two people fall from the roof of a building. In one case the person is deliberately pushed off the roof. In the other case some people are playing around and one of them accidentally falls off the roof.

How would the ground know which is which? Wouldn't it treat them both the same?
Click to expand...

Albert18,

More than likely, you could also expect severe head injuries falling from that height. In a domestic situation, you would have to falling out off an upstairs window to cause such serious head injuries.

Think of all the domestic accidents that occur to children year in year out, how many times do you read about death occurring because the injuries sustained are similar to JonBenet's?


.
 
coloradokares said:
The doornob!!! I took out my tape measure ( no small accomlishment post stroke and bleeds into the brain ) I am stunned!! With what fore would her head have had to strike to create that damage. Sorry math is not my high suite anymore I tied my own shoes last week though. There is hope for me yet!
Click to expand...

I'm only speculating here CK. If she was jerked around by the collar, shoved against a heavy door and doorknob, then released and she fell to the floor, hitting her head a second time, it could result in injuries consistent with JonBenet's. She could have been released before actually striking the doorknob, which Patsy could rationalize and say to herself that she did not kill JonBenet. JonBenet could have run into the door and fallen on her own and Patsy didn't have a hand on JonBenet when she hit the door and fell. People's minds can do strange things in order to accept a tragic event. Maybe Patsy's only involvement was in failing to call 911????

It could be any door in the house, but since Thomas thinks it occurred in the bathroom and since no bathroom photos are available, that might suggest the bathroom. The same idea would work for bathroom fixtures if they are shaped like a doorknob, but the height factor was intriguing to me.

It would be nice to know what type flooring and doors and fixtures were in that bathroom. Again, this is speculation.

BTW - you are doing great on your recovery!
 
BOESP said:
I'm only speculating here CK. If she was jerked around by the collar, shoved against a heavy door and doorknob, then released and she fell to the floor, hitting her head a second time, it could result in injuries consistent with JonBenet's. She could have been released before actually striking the doorknob, which Patsy could rationalize and say to herself that she did not kill JonBenet. JonBenet could have run into the door and fallen on her own and Patsy didn't have a hand on JonBenet when she hit the door and fell. People's minds can do strange things in order to accept a tragic event. Maybe Patsy's only involvement was in failing to call 911????

It could be any door in the house, but since Thomas thinks it occurred in the bathroom and since no bathroom photos are available, that might suggest the bathroom. The same idea would work for bathroom fixtures if they are shaped like a doorknob, but the height factor was intriguing to me.

It would be nice to know what type flooring and doors and fixtures were in that bathroom. Again, this is speculation.

BTW - you are doing great on your recovery!
Click to expand...
I have a picture of the bathroom here somewhere. Not the Post crime scene photos. Let me try to go find it. Then figure out how to get the link to it up. Every day is a new challange for me. The Nero suggested perhaps more time at a facility in Greeley would help.. I am not progressing very well anymore and there was evidence of further TIA's U also have two untreatable aneurisums so they are dangerous but could not create further trouble either way:crazy:

It takes me so long to do this typing sometimes it times me out:rolleyes: Then I have to start all over. However considering they had enacted my living will I am a bit of a miracle. And my little scooter helps alot. Depression is the big thing for me now. That and silverware and how to bursh my teeth the order to do things in. I walk some with the cane and that was a real accompishment. I am doing really good with the blood clot meds at last. The stint did not stop all the clots. Life is good:)
 
coloradokares said:
I have a picture of the bathroom here somewhere. Not the Post crime scene photos. Let me try to go find it. Then figure out how to get the link to it up. Every day is a new challange for me. The Nero suggested perhaps more time at a facility in Greeley would help.. I am not progressing very well anymore and there was evidence of further TIA's U also have two untreatable aneurisums so they are dangerous but could not create further trouble either way:crazy:

It takes me so long to do this typing sometimes it times me out:rolleyes: Then I have to start all over. However considering they had enacted my living will I am a bit of a miracle. And my little scooter helps alot. Depression is the big thing for me now. That and silverware and how to bursh my teeth the order to do things in. I walk some with the cane and that was a real accompishment. I am doing really good with the blood clot meds at last. The stint did not stop all the clots. Life is good:)
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I must have that bathroom on CDROM I know the pictures have been on here before Ames did you save them or put them on favorites..
We are going boating tommorrow so tgive me some time. They are on here somewere . I got a new computer before my stroke my son did all the data transferring for me, now to find them back.
 
coloradokares said:
I must have that bathroom on CDROM I know the pictures have been on here before Ames did you save them or put them on favorites..
We are going boating tommorrow so tgive me some time. They are on here somewere . I got a new computer before my stroke my son did all the data transferring for me, now to find them back.
Click to expand...

Did you know that if you do a search Under Ramsey that our posts to various forums may come up. Rashomon I just read a bunch of your posts from crime library from yesterday!!

If you think what you post is only available to this forum my search for a picture of Jon Benets bathroom took me into several posts from Jameson Jayelles and DocG you wouldnt believe it or I would not have. New or old at random . I am rethinking every post I think I have ever made!!
 
The doorknob theory is interesting...I know I have seen photos of JBR's bathroom- it was after they moved out, and the house had been repainted. All the rooms were painted white. But I don't know if the doorknob can be seen. There are several types. I have French-door handle-type knobs on all my doors because I have severe arthritis and they make it easier for me to open the door than the round type. Obviously, some types of doorknob will be more able to punch a hole in a skull than others. I know this wansn't done- but with today's forensic methods, they could even get skin/hair DNA from the doorknob- provided LE at the time would have even thought of it. Of course, the day she was found, no one even knew there was a skull fracture- they saw the ligature and assumed she had been strangled to death. (Good job, R's! That's just what you wanted them to think!)
But there is no reason why after that became known that LE couldn't have gone back to the home and done a more thorough search of just what could have done damage like that to a child's skull. Oh, never mind! The DA's office would have never allowed that!
 
BOESP said:
:DThat will be a real mess.:D

There was pressure at the impact point but it is unlikely that would cause a long, wide split unless a second nearly simultaneous injury occurred at or nearly at the same time, causing two fractures to join.

You might also want to try hitting a coconut with a hammer just enough to cause a depression and fracture. Then put the coconut on the counter and press down with your hand, putting your weight behind it. The fracture will widen and lengthen (or at least it should!!!) because of the relatively high pressure on the coconut (and other reasons but I'm too tired to get into that again tonight :) ) Then try hitting a second coconut with all your might and see what the hammer does and how it fractures. It is a rather gruesome experiment but it helps understand JonBenet's wounds.
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I'm sorry if this has been mentioned further on in the thread but I've only gotten to here.
Now, if her head struck a surface hard and bounced slightly, striking it a second time but not as forcefully, could that account for the second smaller fracture?
 
coloradokares said:
I must have that bathroom on CDROM I know the pictures have been on here before Ames did you save them or put them on favorites..
We are going boating tommorrow so tgive me some time. They are on here somewere . I got a new computer before my stroke my son did all the data transferring for me, now to find them back.
Click to expand...

coloradokares,
I'm not sure how genuine these are:
http://jameson245_archive.tripod.com/jbrbedroom-A.htm
 
lovebites said:
I'm sorry if this has been mentioned further on in the thread but I've only gotten to here.
Now, if her head struck a surface hard and bounced slightly, striking it a second time but not as forcefully, could that account for the second smaller fracture?
Click to expand...

I would suppose it could account for a smaller fracture. There are so many variables. Someone could have pushed and pulled her into a door (or other object) two, three or more times. That type action might also account for the brain damage similar to shaken-baby syndrome.

Another idea came to mind since a dumbbell was found in JonBenet's room. She could have fallen on that. She could have been hit with it and fell to the floor, increasing the width and length of the original fracture due to the pressure of the head hitting the floor.

Either of the above speculations could still fit with Steve Thomas's corporal punishment theory. Like some of the others who post here, I've come to the conclusion that it must mean something when certain photos and statements haven't been made public. There's a reason JonBenet's crime scene bathroom photos are still private.
 
UKGuy said:
coloradokares,
I'm not sure how genuine these are:
http://jameson245_archive.tripod.com/jbrbedroom-A.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks so much UK Guy When I saved to my favorites it said already saved to favorites. Sure enough they are labled as Jon Benets bedroom and I am searcing everywhere for pics of the bathroom. UG. I dont have a brain that remembers the details anymore. Thank you so much anyway

Here are the pictures BOESP courtesy of UK Guy Thanks again UK Guy!
 
UKGuy said:
coloradokares,
I'm not sure how genuine these are:
http://jameson245_archive.tripod.com/jbrbedroom-A.htm
Click to expand...

Thanks, UKGuy! I've never seen those. It will be interesting to study them. It looks smaller than I had imagined. I understand about the caution on being genuine and Jameson states the photos were made a long, long time after JonBenet's death. I couldn't see the doorknob very well but it did appear to be rounded and the floor looked ceramic but who knows what it was like on December 26. I also see other possibilities for injury ... a lot of possibilities! Thanks again.
 
lovebites said:
I'm sorry if this has been mentioned further on in the thread but I've only gotten to here.
Now, if her head struck a surface hard and bounced slightly, striking it a second time but not as forcefully, could that account for the second smaller fracture?
Click to expand...

A second strike, blow, or contact could also account for increasing the length of an already existing fracture.
 
BOESP said:
A second strike, blow, or contact could also account for increasing the length of an already existing fracture.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it's possible she was struck with the flashlight,thus incurring the indendation,and part of the fracture,and then a second blow from a push,shove or throw fractures the rest?
 
While reading Patsy's interrogation I came upon something Tom Haney said:

Tom Haney asked Patsy about a picture of the hallway that was in her camera. In the picture was the wet bar with a red and black scarf on it.

The picture the police took again of the red and black scarf showed that it had been moved to the hallway table...hanging. Also on the table was a bottle of Windex.

Could the police think the red and black scarf was initially used to strangle JonBenet with? The Windex to wipe the prints of the flashlight?
 
Interesting...you mean compression of the cervical spine, discs, vertebrae, etc.? Like when someone dives into shallow water and hits the top of their head. Well, we all know nothing was noted on the autopsy. It is ASSUMED the coroner would have looked.
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Yeah, that's what I meant.

A question for SD,who said he thought she was killed in her room.I'm wondering what leads you to believe that,and what caused the head injury,if it wasn't something in JB's bathroom? You have a lot of insight,thx for anything you can add.
Click to expand...

Well, the cord fibers in the bed were a starting point. That, and the overturned basket of hair ties. What caused the head injury? I seem to remember, perhaps incorrectly, that JB had some heavy furniture in there.
 
Toltec said:
While reading Patsy's interrogation I came upon something Tom Haney said:

Tom Haney asked Patsy about a picture of the hallway that was in her camera. In the picture was the wet bar with a red and black scarf on it.

The picture the police took again of the red and black scarf showed that it had been moved to the hallway table...hanging. Also on the table was a bottle of Windex.

Could the police think the red and black scarf was initially used to strangle JonBenet with? The Windex to wipe the prints of the flashlight?
Click to expand...


That is certainly what I would think.
 
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