Nancy Grace - Monday, November 17, 2008

New Posts

<<Beware of Dr Lee, he will always lean toward the side that is paying him. He has
a reputation of being the best and that best also includes confusing and twisting the evidence>>

That's exactly what I've been saying about him and Dr. Baden. Baden does the same thing. I just posted on another thread about hearing him on NG before I knew he was hired by the defense and thinking, he sounds like a defense attorney. I also posted about how he kept talking about "food" being in the car and about how he couldn't tell if that was decomposition smell or not. BS! He knows full well what decomposition smells like. I guess if you pay him enough, he'll say whatever you tell him.
 
gardenhart said:
It's possible Lee was calling the pepperoni ham. It's certainly an easier word to pronounce.
Click to expand...

Ham would work a lot better for Dr. Lee in many ways. :) Pepperoni is preserved through its processing and isn't likely to break down very quickly.

Here's what the book Food Processing Technology by Peter Fellows has to say about fermented sausages such as pepperoni:
"Preservation is due to:
  • The antimicrobial action of nitrite-spice mixtures and to a lesser extent from added salt
  • 0.84-1.2% lactic acid from the fermentation
  • heat during pasteurisation and/or smoking (and antimicrobial components in smoke when the product is smoked
  • reduction in water activity due to salt and drying
  • low storage temperature"
 
piratemom said:
Did anyone hear when KC says " she liked to run around" not she likes to run around. Like she was using past tense! I have heard these interviews b/f, but sometimes when you hear something by the 100th time something new comes to light.
Click to expand...

My hubby noticed that one right away.
 
amanstir said:
I lived in a trailer park and accidentally left a bag of trash in my trunk (that I was supposed to bring down to the dumpster) for 5 days. My car started smelling horrible. I had my bf come over and check it out cause I had no clue what that smell was and he found that it was the bag I forgot to dump (my bad). The thing is....... That smell was gone within a day or two.

***i'm just sitting here shaking my head***
Click to expand...

Actually YES, we had left a bag of tomatoes picked from our Grandparents garden in the trunk of our spare car and forgot about it. We cleaned the car w/ steam cleaner TWICE and the smell still remained. A year later we sold it and it still had that smell, even though it was nowhere near as strong.

That being said - rotten tomatoes smelled like stinky feet - a far cry from what I am told a human decomposing smells like.
 
Clock's Tickin said:
Were all of the items listed by Mr. Lee actually loose in the trunk? Or are they the contents of the garbage bag retrieved from over the fence? I thought the trunk contents had been logged by LE upon investigation of the trunk and IIRC there was not much there?? Could he be going on what CA "claims" to have removed from the trunk during her clean out? I've been digging and can't find anything listing empty frozen food containers or soda boxes or anything he talked about??
Click to expand...

That's kind of what I was thinking. I was kind of skeptical when Dr. Lee started rattling off all of this junk that supposedly was in Casey's car...and he didn't really phrase it like, "this is what I personally sifted through" it was a more vague reference to items that could have been in her car. Also, he mentioned maggots - correct me if I'm wrong, but would maggots really still be found in her car alive four months after the fact? Don't they need something to feed on to persist? Seems like he is merely speculating based on what he has been told...
 
CapsDeej said:
Frozen food boxes? Wasn't there a theory about KC keeping the body cold with frozen foods???
Click to expand...

I don't know if there was any theory, but I thought the fact that Dr. Lee didn't want to answer if the boxes were empty or had been opened is telling. One would assume that if she had little Caylee in that trunk she needed to keep the body cool to try to slow down decomposition. So when you think about the fact that she was telling her friend Amy about the 'smell' yet with a trunk of rotten food it NEVER occurred to her that she should possibly clean out the trunk? Just seems to me that those containers of what was frozen food is telling. WHO would put something like that in their car and just leave it?

Also, I don't think Caylee is in Blanchard Park. I've often thought that she disposed of the body somewhere in the vicinity of the tow yard. She has pings in that area so I figure she could have disposed of the body anywhere between the tow area and the Anthony home.
 
impatientredhead said:
No kidding, is there any combination of food in the world that has ever rotted in your house or car by accident and the smell remained 5 months after it was removed?
Click to expand...

After a hurricane, I had the contents of a freezer defrost and finally rot.....we'd evacuated and weren't allowed back in the area. The freezer stunk to a degree that I wouldn't have thought possible. Also we had maggots in the freezer! Granted, there was no power, but the doors were SHUT! I still can't figure that one out, except maybe some of the meat I bought had fly eggs on it when it went into the freezer. Gag.

That freezer was cleaned by me, my hubby, my inlaws, and finally by a professional cleaning team. It was taken apart and cleaned with bleach and all sorts of other cleansers. We moved it out to the back porch and thought maybe eventually we could use it as an overflow freezer, but a full year later, the smell that hit us in the face when we opened the doors was heavy and putrid.

So I know rotten meat smells can last.

not_my_kids said:
LP saying LE has not asked him if he planted evidence.
Click to expand...

That's so weird! The other night he said the FBI officer mentioned "planting evidence" in reference to the LDT.....

JWG said:
If Dr. Lee turned over additional evidence to OCSO, then he is implying they did a sloppy job in collecting evidence, and that will be part of the defense.
Click to expand...

Yep.

TURBOTHINK said:
Blow flies will continue to lay eggs and reproduce as long as there are body fluids there, so obviously there is decomp still there and they took it for evidence. The larvae will even show DNA of who they were feeding off of months ago.
Click to expand...

More than one kind of fly goes through a maggot stage, right? Do we know these maggots were from blowflies?

MOMto5 said:
Kobi skirting around answers as to levels of chloroform present in their two car test.
Click to expand...

The FBI reports mention levels of chloroform found in cars. Apparently, it's not unusual for new cars to have traces of chloroform....not to the degree that would "saturate" the air, but to be fair, that's Nancy's terminology, not FBI's.
 
whittymom4 said:
I didn't think I was supposed to say, but it was Murt's chat late 2am central time this morning. I couldn't sleep and was watching the conversation, the person used the name Brit. Very strange. I had heard of the xanax drug, but I thought it was what KC was using not Caylee, I thought she was using the Chloroform on Caylee. Strange. I normally don't believe what I read on there unless it is confirmed of course. But "Brit" gave me chills...
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info on the chat.
I haven't ever been in the chatroom at Murt's site. BoyI'd love to know who "Brit" really is. Somejow it sounds believeable to me. Brit sounds like they really may know something. It's hard to tell, isn't it?
But there's been so much crazy stuff, and of course so many lies, in all this mess, who really knows?

I bet being there in that chatroom and reading all of that at 2am sure didn't help your insomnia, did it? Whew!

I think this case is going to drive me nuts before it's over with!:crazy:

Thank you again for sharing, whittymom4!:) Very interesting.
 
weasel said:
<<Beware of Dr Lee, he will always lean toward the side that is paying him. He has
a reputation of being the best and that best also includes confusing and twisting the evidence>>

That's exactly what I've been saying about him and Dr. Baden. Baden does the same thing. I just posted on another thread about hearing him on NG before I knew he was hired by the defense and thinking, he sounds like a defense attorney. I also posted about how he kept talking about "food" being in the car and about how he couldn't tell if that was decomposition smell or not. BS! He knows full well what decomposition smells like. I guess if you pay him enough, he'll say whatever you tell him.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that these men are scientists and doctors. It is their job to formulate opinions based on their findings. They will not speculate... they deal in scientific facts only.
Michael Baden has an excellent reputation, and I am pretty sure he would not twist his expert opinions to fit either side.
And I suspect that the accusations against Dr. Lee during the two trials that were brought up have not been proved, so it could just be rumor. At any rate, it was his opinion based on what he knows.
Henry Lee is an expert on blood spatter evidence, btw, and he has been instrumental in solving many cold cases.
However, one cannot deny that he is a very intelligent man, and if he says that he cannot say for certain that there was or was not decomposition in the trunk of the car.... I believe him.
 
weasel said:
<<Beware of Dr Lee, he will always lean toward the side that is paying him. He has
a reputation of being the best and that best also includes confusing and twisting the evidence>>

That's exactly what I've been saying about him and Dr. Baden. Baden does the same thing. I just posted on another thread about hearing him on NG before I knew he was hired by the defense and thinking, he sounds like a defense attorney. I also posted about how he kept talking about "food" being in the car and about how he couldn't tell if that was decomposition smell or not. BS! He knows full well what decomposition smells like. I guess if you pay him enough, he'll say whatever you tell him.
Click to expand...

How dumb do these people think jurors are? Anyone who has ever smelled any dead animal knows it smells nothing like rotten food even if you've never smelled human decomposition.
 
sweetmop said:
Thanks for the info on the chat.
I haven't ever been in the chatroom at Murt's site. BoyI'd love to know who "Brit" really is. Somejow it sounds believeable to me. Brit sounds like they really may know something. It's hard to tell, isn't it?
But there's been so much crazy stuff, and of course so many lies, in all this mess, who really knows?

I bet being there in that chatroom and reading all of that at 2am sure didn't help your insomnia, did it? Whew!

I think this case is going to drive me nuts before it's over with!:crazy:

Thank you again for sharing, whittymom4!:) Very interesting.
Click to expand...
WOW! This is practically the only thing they've been talking about at IS for the past couple of hours! :eek:
 
TxLady2 said:
Keep in mind that these men are scientists and doctors. It is their job to formulate opinions based on their findings. They will not speculate... they deal in scientific facts only.
Michael Baden has an excellent reputation, and I am pretty sure he would not twist his expert opinions to fit either side.
And I suspect that the accusations against Dr. Lee during the two trials that were brought up have not been proved, so it could just be rumor. At any rate, it was his opinion based on what he knows.
Henry Lee is an expert on blood spatter evidence, btw, and he has been instrumental in solving many cold cases.
However, one cannot deny that he is a very intelligent man, and if he says that he cannot say for certain that there was or was not decomposition in the trunk of the car.... I believe him.
Click to expand...

Respect your opinion although I have never watched or read of a trial where the hired expert for the defense went up on the stand and made a statement against the defense.
 
TxLady2 said:
Keep in mind that these men are scientists and doctors. It is their job to formulate opinions based on their findings. They will not speculate... they deal in scientific facts only.
Michael Baden has an excellent reputation, and I am pretty sure he would not twist his expert opinions to fit either side.
And I suspect that the accusations against Dr. Lee during the two trials that were brought up have not been proved, so it could just be rumor. At any rate, it was his opinion based on what he knows.
Henry Lee is an expert on blood spatter evidence, btw, and he has been instrumental in solving many cold cases.
However, one cannot deny that he is a very intelligent man, and if he says that he cannot say for certain that there was or was not decomposition in the trunk of the car.... I believe him.
Click to expand...

Some of the tests that were used with the evidence in this case are still sorta/kinda "experimental." They don't have the weight of some of the older type tests.....all new testing goes through a period of time where it becomes more and more accepted (or not) and that's the period of time we are in now with a couple of the tests.

Dr. Lee will not lie. But he will interpret the evidence from a strictly scientific viewpoint, and he WILL give the benefit of the doubt to the defense IF the test results are from an "experimental" test.


gardenhart said:
How dumb do these people think jurors are? Anyone who has ever smelled any dead animal knows it smells nothing like rotten food even if you've never smelled human decomposition.
Click to expand...

Well, if I leave a roast in the back of my car to rot, wouldn't it smell sort of like a dead cow? Because that's what my roast would be, right?

Personally, I don't think they are going to try to base the smell on the food......I think they'll say that's where the MAGGOTS come from.

The smell (just my opinion) is going to be blamed on animal decomp: much of the evidence would support that, and two main items needed to definitively say the decomp came from human sources were NOT found, so the defense would be stupid not to jump through that hoop.

okiedokietoo said:
Respect your opinion although I have never watched or read of a trial where the hired expert for the defense went up on the stand and made a statement against the defense.
Click to expand...

Well, of course not! If the expert's findings work against the defense, they just don't put him on their witness list!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Members online

... and 76 more.
Total: 3,430 (members: 77, guests: 3,353)

Online statistics

Members online
77
Guests online
3,353
Total visitors
3,430
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,284
Messages
17,966,667
Members
228,735
Latest member
dil2288
Back
Top