NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #11

sarx · Oct 15, 2010

ynotdivein said:
sarx, any insights into the training of various types of sniffer dogs would be most appreciated. Specifically, are there dogs that are only used to sniff for blood, versus decomp? Do decomp dogs ever hit on blood from a living person? Also, are particular breeds used for different types of sniffing? Or can any dog get trained to do any kind of detection (bomb, drug, cadaver, etc.)?

TIA!

(And PS, to our many guests who are following Zahra's case--get yourselves registered and dive on in!)

HRD dogs should not be hitting on bandaids and such. They are trained on the scent of decomp, which starts the moment someone dies and last for centuries.

There are certain breeds that are more often used because they have a natural drive for working but breed itself is not an indicator of what job a K9 has. There is no way I'd look at a picture and say "oh, that's a collie, therefore it's working HRD" (cadaver as many know it).
I've known great SAR dogs in all kinds of breeds and a whole lotta mutts. Sure, shepherds, retrievers, labs are common, but I've know pit bulls, cockers and basenjis just to name a few.

ynotdivein · Oct 15, 2010

No Record That Zahra Was Home Schooled

"There is a hole in the statutory school attendance safety net for North Carolina's school children, and Zahra Clare Baker seems to have dropped through that hole.

There is no record that Zahra was home schooled, as her parents claimed, or that either parent applied for home school certification."

sarx · Oct 15, 2010

bellyup said:
A bloodhound is likely to be a cadaver dog.

Tracking (live) are usually bloodhounds, GSD's and coonhounds.

Cadaver dogs are usually beagles and bloodhounds because they have such sensitive noses they can detect even in running waters.

Labs and other mixes are often used for SAR , live scent work, and some tracking.

I'm going to have to disagree.

bellyup · Oct 15, 2010

mama2echo said:
on my local news, they had video of the searchers and the dog...i think its a doberman(or some breed like it...black/tan and slim)

like this dog ???

http://www.dog-breeds.net/Black_and_Tan_Coonhound.htm

darlin gal · Oct 15, 2010

The dogs and their handlers searched inside the house and were seen in the back yard. Searchers looked under piles of brush and along the fence line, with the missing girl's father, Adam Baker, inside the home while the search took place.
Baker told reporters he still believes Zahra is alive and said he is actively looking for the girl, whose disappearance has been classified by Hickory police as a homicide investigation.
"I'm not concerned about myself," Baker said. "I'm concerned about Zahra."

Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/20...ng-girl-now-believed-to-be.html#ixzz12Sbyn2vz

nobodyspecial · Oct 15, 2010

kalekona said:
Absolutely.
The jail has complete control on who can and can not visit- and if the fact that they may be co-conspirators isn't enough, he has open warrants that they could use to deny a visit.

I figured it had to be something simple...too bad it isn't like NCIS when Gibbs puts suspects together to fight it out and get the truth.

nosysw · Oct 15, 2010

majikposhun said:
This comment on the Hickory Daily Record just brought me to tears - looks a girl/woman wrote a poem for Zahra:

0CLEARPosted by Princess01 on Oct. 15, 2010 - 2:43 p.m.
Hear My Cry
"For Zahra"

See the smile upon my face?
My little arms I used to embrace
My life that was filed with hopes and dreams.
Now I am lost; can you find me please?

Please don't give up- I'm still out there
I wish I could help you and tell you where.
But, I'm just a child and don't understand why
Someone would hurt me,
Do you hear my cry?

I beat the cancer that took my hearing
My leg.
And tried to stop my breathing.
I fought it hard so I could grow
And through my smiles... I told you so!

I'm just a child with regular dreams
Of being a princess.. and now it seems
My dreams are over, I don't understand why
Please come and find me, please hear my cry.

Don't give up on me, I never did
Please whoever hurt me; tell them where I'm hid.
So I can rest in peace and my body be laid to rest
I fought the fight of life and I think I passed the test.

Help Chief Adkins and the other officers too
Who really want to help me come home to you.
When you see my face, please say a prayer
There's hope with Jesus, cause I'm out there .....somewhere.

For Zahra
October 14, 2010
Clara Painter

http://www2.hickoryrecord.com/news/...iture-evidence-hickory-house-where-ar-459903/

This is so beautiful- simple and heartwrenching. Thanks for posting. I had to bump it up...

kalekona · Oct 15, 2010

tehcloser said:
Do we know he wasn't there for just part of it? Or did LE want him to see what they carried out (or at other scenes) to scare him...............

Well officially he gave them permission to do the search. (yes I am sure they also have a warrant to cover themselves)

sarx · Oct 15, 2010

bellyup said:
It would be strange for a rottweiler to be involved in cadaver search. Not completely unheard of, but I didn't see the video. Looks more like a coonhound or bloodhound to me.

I'm going to have to disagree again.

pinkpuddytat · Oct 15, 2010

wfgodot said:
I can find no direct quotations from Zahra's mother; neither has she appeared on camera. The "searching for five years" info was off of a Facebook page of someone purporting to be "a friend." All other information is also second-hand.

What's your source for the info re the Facebook source? I only saw it in the Charlotte Observer article, which didn't cite a source (which was odd). Re the second report of her statement, that did come from a LEO who said he'd spoken directly to her by phone, so a lot more solid than the unsourced (or FB-sourced) report in the Charlotte Observer, and yet still very inconsistent with all other reports from family and friends and LE who has interviewed some of the family and friends.

bellyup · Oct 15, 2010

ynotdivein said:
Thank you for the insights, bellyup! Glad to have you at WS. If you are a dog handler, please consider contacting site owner Tricia to become a "verified expert" in that field. Either way, appreciate your help here in understanding the search for Zahra...

Actually not a handler (anymore), but a former veterinary technician who has done extensive training work and have a vast interest in just about everything canine

distracted 1976 · Oct 15, 2010

bellyup said:
It would be strange for a rottweiler to be involved in cadaver search. Not completely unheard of, but I didn't see the video. Looks more like a coonhound or bloodhound to me.

100% sure the dog had some rottweiler in it, bet my golden retriever on it!:crazy: In other pics you can clearly see the black/brown markings and the stump tail, my family used to have them.
There were other breeds out there as well....but a rotty or rotty mix was definitely one of them!

Couple other pics
http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...hra Baker -NC-/?action=view&current=14-3.jpg

http://s296.photobucket.com/albums/...C-/?action=view&current=101310burkepond2.jpg&

bellyup · Oct 15, 2010

tehcloser said:
Do we know he wasn't there for just part of it? Or did LE want him to see what they carried out (or at other scenes) to scare him...............

the reports i saw indicated he was there the entire time today for the house search and he left out the back door with an unidentified person while LE left out the front door. Unless said unidentified person was from LE ..... they would NOT have let him do that if they were concerned about his involvement IMO.

mama2echo · Oct 15, 2010

bellyup said:
like this dog ???

http://www.dog-breeds.net/Black_and_Tan_Coonhound.htm

kinda!! ...but it didnt seem to have that long of ears? but it was jumpin thru brambles so it might of been hard to see? ...im trying to see if the video is online(cause it was just a sniplet video)

kalekona · Oct 15, 2010

nobodyspecial said:
I figured it had to be something simple...too bad it isn't like NCIS when Gibbs puts suspects together to fight it out and get the truth.

Yeah that would be way simpler and we'd have answers by now. lol

Don't get me wrong I think LE would have no problem putting them a room together to get information if both were in custody- but the jail isn't going to let him just visit her.
(I wonder if she is even allowed visitors yet.)

wfgodot · Oct 15, 2010

pinkpuddytat said:
What's your source for the info re the Facebook source? I only saw it in the Charlotte Observer article, which didn't cite a source (which was odd). Re the second report of her statement, that did come from a LEO who said he'd spoken directly to her by phone, so a lot more solid than the unsourced (or FB-sourced) report in the Charlotte Observer, and yet still very inconsistent with all other reports from family and friends and LE who has interviewed some of the family and friends.

"A woman posted in Australia posted [sic] on her Facebook page Tuesday that she was good friends with Zahra's mother, Emily, and that Emily had been searching for Zahra for 5 years. The post went on that Emily found out last week Zahra's father was remarried and living in North Carolina. It also indicated they learned Monday Zahra was missing in NC."

scroll down just a bit
http://charlotte.news14.com/content/zahra_baker_case/zahra_baker_questions/

pinkpuddytat · Oct 15, 2010

bellyup said:
Okay I have to clean my floors....
But I am nearly convinced that AB doesn't have anything to do with her death or disappearance. After seeing that he was AGAIN at the house for the search today I just cannot imagine LE keeping him hanging around the search sites if they believe he was involved. It doesn't make sense and it would go against typical protocol. He was there for nearly TWO HOURS with them today. If they had strong suspicion that he was involved they would not want him privy to areas where he could hear or see things that would help in his defense.

I'm also as nearly convinced that LE has a 3rd party in mind as a potential suspect or likely a suspect that is in cahoots with EB. Perhaps based on things AB has told them, tips from outsiders or things they have found.

If they've got hidden cameras in the house, they might well be thrilled to have him spend as much time there as possible, even encourage him to go back to living there while the investigation continues. I'd sure want to go that route if I was investigating this case. There have been many reports that AB isn't too bright/"elevator doesn't go all the way to the top"/etc and he strikes me as very likely to slip up, if he was staying at the house on his own (with police preventing nosy people from approaching the property, of course), watching TV, having a few beers, utterly oblivious to hidden cameras.

bellyup · Oct 15, 2010

sarx said:
I'm going to have to disagree.

On which point do you disagree? I wasn't saying it was exclusive just a general guideline as to the breed commonly used for certain types of work. Of course there are always variances.

mama2echo · Oct 15, 2010

i found it! ...i hope the link works

http://www.digtriad.com/video/#/Local+News/Police%3A+Missing+Girl+May+Have+Been+Alive+In+Mid%2DSeptember/49911607001/49960901001/636713649001

Virgogalsue · Oct 15, 2010

nobodyspecial said:
I go away go get groceries and nearly get killed by a punk brat with road rage:furious: and you all moved on without me! New thread and everything! Hmph. :snooty:

So about that attic thing...it's not possible for her to have been stashed away up there without the insulation being mashed down like crazy. The noise that she would have made would sound nothing like squirrels. The prosthetic would have thumped quite loudly on the floor if she had it, and her hopping if she didn't...again. Not squirrels.

I think whoever it was who said the rustling of vermin could sound a lot like boxes of drugs hit the nail on the head.

The article where dad refers to Zahra as 'the girl' could be shoddy writing as opposed to a quote...unless I missed it completely or read it wrong. It didn't look like he was directly quoted...just paraphrased. Again, I could be wrong. It's still messed up that NOW he'll take her back to her safe, happy home but not when she truly needed it, now that it's too late. Dad of the year! not.

I hate reading 'dead end' in regards to any investigation. It's chilling to realize it's going cold and may never be resolved. I really hope this is not the case with this one. They've got to know something solid. This can't end even worse!!

I know I had more on my mind after reading back a bit but I've forgotten it. I'm really irritated and flustered by mr road rage...so I'm taking off for a while to chill out til happy hour comes and i can respectably have a glass of wine. :banghead:

My husband and parents are British and it is quite common to refer to young children as 'the girl' or 'the boy'. It's actually a term of endearment.
I didn't interpret it negatively in any way...IF he actually said that!

NC - Zahra Clare Baker, 10, Hickory, 9 Oct 2010 - #11

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