IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #23

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Perhaps they didn't bother to enhance the pictures and ask about a potential person in the back seat. Perhaps they didn't check up with the work to ensure this person never left the site at ALL that day (and if he went to lunch, they didn't verify his presence at the restaurant he indicated visiting). I mean, if this guy appeared cooperative with "nothing to hide", how far did they really go to check him out? Many psychos appear to have "nothing to hide". I'm just sayin'. IMO what they SHOULD have done (and I find it doubtful) is to have this guy load up his truck with the exact equipment that he says was in there, in the approximate location, and drive past the area again, getting on video, then compare those stills.

I do agree that mistakes could be made. However, they did enhance the photos (well, at least claimed they did) and they did ask about other passengers and verify with those other passengers. They went as far as I think is reasonable for LE to do-checked out the vehicle and verified his alibi with the actual people who saw him that day. Everything checked out and the truck was clean. Legally, they are restricted about what they can do when everything checks out clean and the person is cooperative.
 
I'd also like to be clear up front, that I don't think the truck is involved in any capacity....



Can we use this information to presume that there were no other vehicles traveling along this same section of 10th street within the time period that LE checked the video for? If there had been, surely LE would see that every vehicle appeared "twice" and wouldn't have leapt to conclusions on the truck alone.

You know, that's an interesting point. I seem to recall (but have no idea from where) that LE said that they were checking out the vehicles in the area and found one or two that were suspicious. I specifically recall them saying possibly two and I believe it was because they had not yet confirmed this was the same vehicle in both shots. Since I recall them saying they were checking out "the vehicles' (Plural), I do wonder if there were others in the area, and if so, what made them hone in only on the truck? Perhaps this was the only one along the route that was suspected that she took, but what if she really did walk towards JW's? It's been pointed out on WS that there was a route she could have taken within being seen on cameras, to his place. There could have been other vehicles ruled out b/c they were coming from elsewhere (JW's direction) and turning onto College too far down from 11th. LE could have assumed this was not relevant. A long shot, but possible. LE has already made other assumptions that were wrong (like that the truck circled twice).
 
I do agree that mistakes could be made. However, they did enhance the photos (well, at least claimed they did) and they did ask about other passengers and verify with those other passengers. They went as far as I think is reasonable for LE to do-checked out the vehicle and verified his alibi with the actual people who saw him that day. Everything checked out and the truck was clean. Legally, they are restricted about what they can do when everything checks out clean and the person is cooperative.

I completely agree that there are legal limits on what they could do, and I do recall that they'd enhanced the photo now, thanks. I wasn't so much finding fault with them, as I was meaning that they could have overlooked something or really believed someone who was just overly brazen. It's possible. I am in no way pushing to say this truck is linked b/c I am not convinced. I am just not convinced that it's not and until most of us are, I think it is still worthy of discussion and glad it was brought back out of hiding. Incidentally, regarding taking new pics, of course that would be done merely if the guy volunteered/agreed.
 
As a poster mentioned earlier... The Dahmer case.. If you recall, the 13 year old Asian boy who was walking in downtown Milwaukee naked could barely form sentences and was barely coherent. As Dahmer approached the officers, he informed them that his "boyfriend" had a bad habbit of doing this often.

The sad part, 15 minutes after the cops left the poor kid was murder and cut apart.

Even sadder, the cops were known to address over the police radio using the words, "gay" "*advertiser censored*" and "******s"

If only it wasn't 1992 and being in a gay relationship was acceptable, perhaps the cops would have looked further into the situation as opposed to ostracizing them for being gay and letting Dahmer get away with it!
 
Imkeylime - I tried to like your post and it wouldn't let me. I agree about the FBI involvement and have wondered the same thing. I think there's something pretty big connecting these boys and I smell drugs.
 
Let's imagine CR wss carrying a lot of cash that morning. He might be a target for a robbery. Plus, LS may have been wearing several pieces of expensive jewelery, which searchers have combed the lawns around Smallwood to find. The robbers may have put some substance into CR's drink, or both LS's and CR's drinks. They know the bar so well that they know how to avoid cameras. The reason LS leaves behind her cell & shoes is that they escaped in a hurry.

CR went straight to someone at Smallwood to get help, but maybe this person was angry that now something was lost; hence, the altercation.

Maybe the altercation has been misconstrued. Perhaps the person CR went to for help expressed rage at CR, but the "punch" wasn't intended to significantly harm him. (Apparently, no charges were filed.) Then, maybe he (or some other person present) said that they will provide assistance.

That's why they may have told LS to stay at Smallwood, they were afraid that she would be in danger in the event of confrontation.

Again CR & LS flee; this time through the alley to 5 North. CR explains the situation as best he now can to MB, who understands that the perps may stop by and further threaten CR. MB assures CR that he will be awake all night guarding their place, and he sends LS to JR's where she will be safer.

At JR's, LS may have called people she trusted for help. Was the 4:15 am call to DR the only call made from any phone at JR's place during the time period roughly 3:30 am to 4:30 am?

Could be that she was abducted from JR's place? OR that JR was threatened, and so he told her to leave quickly for her own safety? OR that she left with intentions of going to someone else's place on College Avenue? OR that the group associated with the robbery was watching 5 North & abducted her on College Avenue?

Maybe JR didn't trust HT to be discrete, and therefore later claimed only to her that he tried to persuade LS to stay at his place.

Walker, I know she was wearing a ring by David Yurman (included in the description). His jewelry is pricey. I suppose she might still have her jewelry on. Or not, obviously. CR could have been carrying cash on him and been a target ... OTOH, I've also wondered if he might have owed somebody and that caused the altercation. Regardless, maybe the punch was a warning?

I agree that LS might have been caught in a situation where one thing lead to another ... wrong time, wrong place, wrong circumstances, wrong acquaintances. Like a plane crash with no backup system. I also agree that LS and CR may have had the same effects from the same substances, whether ingested at JR's or Sports, voluntarily or involuntarily.

While IDK if more than one call was made from JR's, I think JR may have told HT what sounded good or what he thought she'd want to hear, just like he recently told a reporter that he's spoken privately with the family. IMO, he may not think out the long-term consequences of what he says.

Lastly, I do think it's possible she was headed toward College Ave. to meet up with someone. If CR and LS or even CR and JR were being targeted for whatever reason, maybe LS was collateral damage. I haven't thought too much about that (been kind of stuck on the OD theory), but it's good to consider all angles! I will say that something major must bond these boys or one of them would have talked, IMO. And the fact that the FBI participated in the landfill search suggests to me that something beyond LS is involved, not that she shouldn't be enough.
 
Imkeylime - I tried to like your post and it wouldn't let me. I agree about the FBI involvement and have wondered the same thing. I think there's something pretty big connecting these boys and I smell drugs.

Thanks! It somehow didn't include Walker's quote, which I was referring to, so I deleted/reposted it. I hope that's ok to do ... I'm technically deficient! Sorry for the confusion ... but yes, I agree with you.
 
!!!!

Lauren Spierer disapperance: Parents don't believe her college friends


BLOOMINGTON, Ind. — The parents of Lauren Spierer said today that they highly doubt that their daughter was abducted by a stranger and expressed skepticism about the statements of two friends who were among the last to see her.

"It's easy for anybody to say anything because Lauren is not here to tell her side of the story," Charlene Spierer told The Journal News.

For the first time, she and husband Robert Spierer raised doubts about specific statements made by friends, including Corey Rossman's claim that he suffered memory loss and Jay Rosenbaum's claim that Spierer, a 20-year-old graduate of Edgemont High School, used his cellphone to call a friend before she left his apartment.

!!!!

"I know he claims she made the call, but I have no reason to believe she actually made the call," Robert Spierer said.
[...]
"It's hard for me to imagine Lauren, with her size, helping someone of Corey's size from Smallwood Plaza to his apartment," Robert Spierer said. "Maybe he'd be willing to take a police polygraph."
 
I think if there were other vehicles on the road, LE had already located those drivers and had only the white truck left to identify at the time they put it out. And then they id'd it and moved on.

As you can see from today's statements, clearly Lauren's parents are not thinking about some anonymous truck driver, FWIW.
 
I wish I could remember more clearly what they said about other vehicles. I believe there were other vehicles, but every other one was either clearly not involved or tracked down very easily. The truck was harder because it was so generic and they didn't get a good shot of any distinguishing features (like a plate?). At least, that is how I remember it.
 
IMO they played a real trump card by waiting until the kids all returned to school, before making that announcement. This keeps the suspicion alive and well, and clouds opinions of friends. Had this statement been made over the summer, some students wouldn't have heard about it and others would have forgotten. This may get some kids talking.

I believe that LE must suspect these boys too. I think that they've surely found some little sort of evidence (maybe even in one of the apartments) which is enough to cause suspicion, but not enough to convict. Perhaps that's why they went to the landfill - to get the only thing left that they needed for a conviction?

IF one or more of these boys is guilty, their return to school tells me that their parents do not believe their son is involved (to a guilty level). If I thought that my kid hidden a body, there's no way in H*LL I'd send him back to school. An education costs a LOT of money. I hate to say this but practically speaking, if my son was likely facing prison time, I wouldn't be worrying about a college degree. Of course his attorney probably said, "carry on as normal". However "Normal" does not include spending thousands more on school, spending thousands on a defense attorney, then spending the rest of your life in prison. College education is WAY important to our family, but I guess I'm a bit too practical also. If these kids have snowed their parents, I have a strong feeling they aren't going to crack. I think I'd have been really drilling my kid about this over the summer.....probably to the point where he'd have admitted to something he didn't even do, just to shut me up. :floorlaugh:
 
1. I don't have much of an opinion about the white truck. I do know that our brains play tricks on us, so that we see patterns where there are none, as others have posted above. This is why there is such a thing as a visual illusion - and there are many of those.

2. If the Spierers are challenging CR's memory loss, to me that means that they are not on board with the idea that he consumed xanax, alcohol, & cocaine (the 3 drugs that have been most speculated about in this case). Do you agree with my interpretation here?
This reminds me of a discussion that we had a while ago about the possibility that "cooler heads" - meaning someone(s) who were sober, or at least more sober than others seemed to be - were involved if indeed LS's friends from that night had something to do with her disappearance and with concealing evidence.
 
I think if there were other vehicles on the road, LE had already located those drivers and had only the white truck left to identify at the time they put it out. And then they id'd it and moved on.

As you can see from today's statements, clearly Lauren's parents are not thinking about some anonymous truck driver, FWIW.

IMO IF the truck is involved at all, I doubt it's some anonymous driver b/c I do think that one or more of the POIs is/are involved. While I've remained open to all possibilities, I've always felt most strongly about the boys. I do think that IF the truck was involved however, that it could have been driven by a friend called to help "load her up" after the fact, or driver her away (say if they were taking her somewhere to rape her).
 
Why, of all things, focus on the phone call? Why not focus on the claim that she left around 4:30 under her own power?
 
(snipped)
2. If the Spierers are challenging CR's memory loss, to me that means that they are not on board with the idea that he consumed xanax, alcohol, & cocaine (the 3 drugs that have been most speculated about in this case). Do you agree with my interpretation here?
(Snipped)

I'm not sure about that but I could interpret their statements to simply mean either that "We don't believe that he can't remember anything." OR "He doesn't really have AMNESIA but perhaps just a good old fashioned hangover." Either way, I don't think that they are saying he DIDN'T consume anything. IMO one could have consumed these (all or in a combination) and still remember major events. He may not recall all details but even on those drugs/alochol and yes, even getting hit in the head, I think he could still recall if he was in the room when someone died. IMO there would be a LOT of quickly sobering up of people involved at the time. I still think they may have needed to call in someone more level headed, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be able to remember.
 
1. I don't have much of an opinion about the white truck. I do know that our brains play tricks on us, so that we see patterns where there are none, as others have posted above. This is why there is such a thing as a visual illusion - and there are many of those.

2. If the Spierers are challenging CR's memory loss, to me that means that they are not on board with the idea that he consumed xanax, alcohol, & cocaine (the 3 drugs that have been most speculated about in this case). Do you agree with my interpretation here?
This reminds me of a discussion that we had a while ago about the possibility that "cooler heads" - meaning someone(s) who were sober, or at least more sober than others seemed to be - were involved if indeed LS's friends from that night had something to do with her disappearance and with concealing evidence.

Or it is possible that they are on board with the xanax/alcohol/cocaine thing. It's just that none of the boys gave that information and it is all from rumors. Maybe challenging CR about the amnesia is their way of provoking a little more truth out of the boys about what was really going on that night. The amnesia story does sound pretty ridiculous without the substance explanation, but CR has never offered the substance excuse (we have done it for them).

Personally, if they are trying to get this info officially I think they are going down the wrong path. If CR was not involved with hiding LS's body, there is no way he has any motivation to come clean about what substances he and LS may have ingested that night.
 
Why, of all things, focus on the phone call? Why not focus on the claim that she left around 4:30 under her own power?

I think that's an important point. There must be a reason why they focused on this call and remember, quite recently, CS made a point to let us know that the last time she'd used her phone was at 12:16 and that you should ALWAYS carry your phone. I kinda wonder if she finds it suspicious that her phone just happened to have been found at Sports. In other words, for some reason, perhaps she doesn't think that Lauren would have called to see if "what's his initials" had her phone b/c as long as she was alive, she never knew it was missing. Maybe it hadn't been missing while she was alive. I hope LE has viewed ALL footage at Sports (including after they left the bar) to see if anyone else may have come in who could have planted her phone there.

What I don't understand is why though -
 
I think casting doubt on the phone call may immediately cast doubt on the 430 claim as well as bring up issues of WHY you would lie about that phone call being her. I am wondering if they have any firm reason to doubt the call-like, some sort of reasoning about why she would call DR and not someone else or maybe it pinged from somewhere not his apartment?

I also think they are smart folks and realize that CR's story is really dumb-no one believes he lily white and innocent, was casually walking somewhere, punched out of nowhere for no reason, and then forget the entire night because of the injuries that he never went to the hospital for and magically never showed any bruising. Now, that could mean they just figure maybe he hiding something, but that can be actual memories or a different reason for the memory loss. For example, even if CR is innocent I bet they would want to know if he was doing drugs, if Lauren was doing them too, and who they bought the drugs from.
 
I think that's an important point. There must be a reason why they focused on this call and remember, quite recently, CS made a point to let us know that the last time she'd used her phone was at 12:16 and that you should ALWAYS carry your phone. I kinda wonder if she finds it suspicious that her phone just happened to have been found at Sports. In other words, for some reason, perhaps she doesn't think that Lauren would have called to see if "what's his initials" had her phone b/c as long as she was alive, she never knew it was missing. Maybe it hadn't been missing while she was alive. I hope LE has viewed ALL footage at Sports (including after they left the bar) to see if anyone else may have come in who could have planted her phone there.

What I don't understand is why though -

That's kind of what I was thinking...that CS believes that that call wasn't made by Lauren.
 
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