Searching for Seka

Julessleuther said:

I saw her info too, and at one point in time, I believe she was in San Francisco. I will see if I can find the info! Opps, nevermind-- I guess she did a movie, Blond in San Francisco. I did find this, however. COuld our Seka be a massage therapist?
http://www.loriloo.com/2004/08/wisdom-of-seka

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I thought Doogie said the actress Seka was Asian and therefore not the one we were looking forl

Doogie later corrected himself. It turned out she was blond, and not Asian.

Annasmom,

George W was definitely a stunning looking man, and his intelligence also attractive. What I mean't was a young girl meeting 2 older men, George W., was still older than Seka as we know GB most def. was. I ponder what she was interested in despite Waters being an attractive man. What was the relationship? GB said something about Seka acquiring her own room soon. I thought maybe she did work in a nightclub of sorts part time and if so, she could be the Seka currently in SF?

SideKick said:

Annasmom,

George W was definitely a stunning looking man, and his intelligence also attractive. What I mean't was a young girl meeting 2 older men, George W., was still older than Seka as we know GB most def. was. I ponder what she was interested in despite Waters being an attractive man. What was the relationship? GB said something about Seka acquiring her own room soon. I thought maybe she did work in a nightclub of sorts part time and if so, she could be the Seka currently in SF?

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I'm more or less assuming GW met her at his work somehow. I really don't think the SF Seka is the one we're looking for. Otherwise, it's hard to explain how long she seemed to stay in touch with one or the other of the Georges, since their rant drove people away pretty quickly. In 1976, when the correspondence began, GW would have been only 37. Now, I know I'm an AARP member, but that seems really young to me!

Also, I should add that the Georges had a very specific meaning for the word "Romantic". They didn't necessarily mean lovey-dovey when they used this word. They referred to "Romantic Types". GB considered himself a Romantic and believed that was why he was so attractive to both men and women, urp.

I just received this from NARA San Bruno, Ca:

This is response to your e-mail dated September 5, 2008 concerning Petitions for Naturalization for San Francisco for the years 1985-90.

The holdings of the Archival Records Operations Unit (NRHA-S) of the National Archives and Records Administration - Pacific Region (San Francisco) includes approximately 56,500 cubic feet of original records generated by Federal courts and agency field offices within our region from the 1850s to the 1970s. Our region covers northern and central California, Nevada (except Clark County), Hawaii, American Samoa, and the Trust Territory of the Pacific Islands. We also have a large collection of National Archives microfilm publications, including all extant Federal population census schedules from 1790 to 1930 for the entire United States.

On March 26, 1790, Congress passed an act (1 Stat. 103) that allowed any individual seeking citizenship to apply to any court of record in a state where he or she lived for one year. Before September 27, 1906, an alien could seek citizenship through any Federal, state, or local court. As a result, you need to know to which court an immigrant submitted the application for naturalization.

There is no central repository for all naturalizations that ever occurred in the United States between March 26, 1790 and the present. The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) only have custody of records of naturalizations that occurred in Federal courts prior to ca. 1975. Fortunately for the time period you are inquiring about (1985-90), naturalizations only occurred in U.S. District Courts. Unfortunately, the actual records you are seeking (the original Petitions for Naturalization) are still in the custody of the U.S. District Court in San Francisco.
Our facility holds some naturalization records transferred from Federal courts in northern California, Hawaii, and Nevada. U.S. district and circuit courts in Honolulu, Reno, Sacramento, and San Francisco originated these naturalization records. In addition to these Federal court records, we hold naturalization records of two Nevada state courts, the First District Court of Nevada at Fallon (Churchill County) and the Second District Court of Nevada at Reno (Washoe County), and one California county court, the Marin County Superior Court. These latter state- and local-level holdings are exemptions to the rule.

Our records document naturalization proceedings performed during the specified time periods in the following courts:

District Court, Northern District of California (San Francisco), 1851-1973
Circuit Court, Northern District of California (San Francisco), 1855-1911
District Court, Eastern District of California (Sacramento), 1917-74
District Court, District of Hawaii, 1900-91
District Court, District of Nevada, 1868-1929 (microfilm only)
State Court, First District, Churchill County, Fallon, Nevada, 1877-1956
State Court, Second District, Washoe County, Reno, Nevada, 1853-1949
Superior Court, Marin County, California, 1871-1957

Since October 1906 most naturalizations have been performed in Federal district courts. Generally, each U.S. District Court maintains card indexes to naturalization records filed in that court from 1906 (or earlier) to the present. Among our microfilm holdings is National Archives microfilm publication M1744 entitled Index to Naturalizations in the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, 1852 - ca. 1989 and Naturalizations in the U.S. Circuit Court for the Northern District of California, 1855 - 1911.

The entire series includes 165 rolls of microfilm, but there are some substantial gaps in the alphabetic sequence. Fortunately, the original index cards still exist in our custody. We can perform a search of this NARA microfilm publication if you provide us with the name(s) of the person(s) you are interested in. We should be able to provide you with the person's petition number, which you can then use to contact the Clerk of the Court of the U.S. District Court for the District of Northern California, Southern Division (San Francisco) to receive a copy of the actual record (Petition for Naturalization). For more information, please contact:

U.S. District Court
Northern District of California (Southern Division)
Attn: Clerk of the Court
450 Golden Gate Avenue Floor 16
San Francisco, CA 94102-3426
Telephone: 415-522-4151
FAX: 415-522-2176
URL: http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/

Thank you for the opportunity to serve you; I trust the information furnished will be of benefit to you. If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

Sincerely,
J. S., Archives Technician
NARA - Pacific Region (San Francisco)
Archival Records Operations (NRHA-S)
1000 Commodore Drive
San Bruno, CA 94066-2350
Telephone: 650-238-3487
FAX: 650-238-3510
URL: http://www.archives.gov/pacific/san-francisco/index.html

I am not aware whether the Clerk of the Court has access to NARA microfilm publication M1744 or if they have some other way of searching for the aforementioned petitions (perhaps an electronic index), but you can contact the court directly to inquire about their procedures and the costs associated with securing copies of the documents you are requesting.

Annasmom said:

I'm more or less assuming GW met her at his work somehow. I really don't think the SF Seka is the one we're looking for. Otherwise, it's hard to explain how long she seemed to stay in touch with one or the other of the Georges, since their rant drove people away pretty quickly. In 1976, when the correspondence began, GW would have been only 37. Now, I know I'm an AARP member, but that seems really young to me!

Also, I should add that the Georges had a very specific meaning for the word "Romantic". They didn't necessarily mean lovey-dovey when they used this word. They referred to "Romantic Types". GB considered himself a Romantic and believed that was why he was so attractive to both men and women, urp.

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I understand exactly what you mean. My sister is a Romanticist. Not necessarily "Romantic" in the true sense of the word, but has this romantic notion that the world is a bed of roses, everyone is trustworthy and that everybody loves and adores her... I can't say it's really a "Bad" thing, as it seems that everyone does seem to bow down to her...LOL I wonder if that is what the Georges meant when they called Seka a "Romantic"

As far as Brody considering himself as a romanticist, that had to be his delusional thinking at work. I don't think you can be paranoid and a romanticist at the same time. :waitasec:

I just heard from this person.

He found an old restaurant in Skradin previously owned by a Serb person who would very likely know most of the people who used to vacation there. This person has since moved to another town but he was able to trace him and will contact him.

I am optimistic.

KivaSupporter said:

In response to my post on a Croatian forum, I received an e-mail from a person who lives close to Skradin. He is offering to help search for Seka.

He says he is very familiar with Skradin, as well as with Belgrade, and has friends in both places.

He also says that Serbs generally did not sell their houses in Skradin due to the war, so he believes it is likely that Seka's family still owns a house there. However, he is going to check the Land Registry for any registered house sales and any other information which could help identify Seka and her family. He will also talk to older people residing there.

I will let you know what happens.

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The marked out words do not appear to be English, IMO. They are written in the same style and with the same color ink as the initial message on the postcard.

I believe the two words are probably the true name of Seka, or her family's name.
I think this should get immediate attention. JMO.

Annasmom, has the FBI been involved in Anna's case? They have people who are trained to do this type of work. I think it should be fairly easy to lift or make an impression of the name from the postcard, since we can see downstrokes, upstrokes and a bit of the capital letters all by ourselves.

Best to you, KivaSupporter, and Annasmom, and prayers that Anna will be found through this connection.

Hugs,
Maria

SeekingJana said:

The marked out words do not appear to be English, IMO. They are written in the same style and with the same color ink as the initial message on the postcard.

I believe the two words are probably the true name of Seka, or her family's name.
I think this should get immediate attention. JMO.

Annasmom, has the FBI been involved in Anna's case? They have people who are trained to do this type of work. I think it should be fairly easy to lift or make an impression of the name from the postcard, since we can see downstrokes, upstrokes and a bit of the capital letters all by ourselves.

Best to you, KivaSupporter, and Annasmom, and prayers that Anna will be found through this connection.

Hugs,
Maria

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Hi, Maria. Sorry about the late answer; my computer was in the shop five days and I only have the one. KivaS sent the post card to a private lab for analysis...they use some high-tech equipment, but they were not able to separate the writing from the scribble. The FBI is aware of Anna's case, but neither they nor the local law enforcement people will take any action unless we have proof that a crime was committed.

Annasmom said:

Hi, Maria. Sorry about the late answer; my computer was in the shop five days and I only have the one. KivaS sent the post card to a private lab for analysis...they use some high-tech equipment, but they were not able to separate the writing from the scribble. The FBI is aware of Anna's case, but neither they nor the local law enforcement people will take any action unless we have proof that a crime was committed.

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Have you thought that the words on the postcard are Seka's real name or her parent's name? I have a strong feeling that it is and that maybe it was written when the card was mailed ( posted).

Annasmom, help me understand this. Anna was 6 years old. She didn't pack a bag and move out. LE searched the creek for her. It was not determined that she had drowned. Why didn't local LE pursue her case as a Missing Child case? What about just plain Kidnapping, which has existed as a crime against children at least back to the Lingbergh kidnapping and the law reforms related to kidnappings at that time?
I would think the statue of limitations has run out. Am I correct since Anna, if living, is an adult?

SeekingJana said:

Have you thought that the words on the postcard are Seka's real name or her parent's name? I have a strong feeling that it is and that maybe it was written when the card was mailed ( posted).

Annasmom, help me understand this. Anna was 6 years old. She didn't pack a bag and move out. LE searched the creek for her. It was not determined that she had drowned. Why didn't local LE pursue her case as a Missing Child case? What about just plain Kidnapping, which has existed as a crime against children at least back to the Lingbergh kidnapping and the law reforms related to kidnappings at that time?
I would think the statue of limitations has run out. Am I correct since Anna, if living, is an adult?

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SJ, I'll answer your question from the other thread here. Of course, anything is possible, but if you read the early descriptions of the case, you see that no single indication was ever found that Anna went into the creek. That was the first place we looked, because that was the most immediate danger, but it was searched in every possible way over a period of years, by divers, hikers, people on horseback, sniffer dogs. Even the US Geological Survey contributed to these reports. Because of the initial press coverage, lots of people were left with the impression that she did to into the creek.

Second, Anna's case WAS pursued as a missing child case and the case is still listed with LE and the NCMEC as a "probable non-family abduction". Her father was followed by LE for several days and by a private investigator later on.

Yes, the statute of limitations on kidnapping has run out.

Regarding the Seka scribble, there's no telling what it is. If they couldn't find it with a spectrometer or whatever sophisticated device that lab was using, then it's anybody's guess. The whole association with Seka happened years after Anna disappeared, and we don't know whether she had any connection or not. However, she obviously DID have a connection with the Georges which lasted some time, unlike their other associations.

Thank you for giving your thoughts on all this. It really helps to have someone else looking at everything, because we never know when a new possibility might come up.

Annasmom, thank you so much. How important do you think " Seka" is at this point?
What do you feel in your heart, regarding Anna? Do you believe she is alive and well? I believe in trusting our feelings about loved ones.

Anna's case has always captivated me, but I have not had as much time to spend on it as I wish I had.
With respect for you and your family,

Maria

The Forensic Document Examiner had difficulties identifying the obliterated text. She could only identify the number 4 (see the marked scan). I was then able to determine that this number was stamped on the postcard by the post office. There is a round ink stamp and the Croatian Coat of Arms stamped close to it.

I believe the rest of the obliterated text was written by Seka. It seems to me a telephone number is written on the second line.

People from that part of the world often write additional information in that area of postcards, such as their name and address.

If you open the scan in the Microsoft Office Picture Manager, you can change brightness, contrast, and color. You can also zoom in and out.

Would anyone be willing to try to see if anything else could be identified on the postcard?

SCAN:



MARKED SCAN:



HIGHER CONTRAST:

it are several handwriting and numbers as I can understand

Wow! Thanks, Raf. This is really interesting. I was looking for words and numbers similar in size to the legible parts of the letter.

Now it looks like the obliterated text includes some large-size words and numbers and some tiny words and numbers.

On the right of the first obliterated line, I see the numbers 341 237 3873 or 341 237 3874. Area code 341 is an old area code which shows overlay on 510 which refers to 925. 925 is defined as: California: Contra Costa area: Antioch, Concord, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek (split from 510)

http://www.bennetyee.org/ucsd-pages/area.html#510

So, the number becomes 925-237-3873 or 925-237-3874.

The reverse number search shows these telephone numbers are in Antioch, CA.


http://www.reversephonedetective.com/searchresults.php?p=925-237-3874

I also see 38230 on the second line of the first obliterated text. That could be the zip code for Greenfield, Tennessee.

Now, the question is what does it all mean, if anything?

raf said:

it are several handwriting and numbers as I can understand

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I don't believe that 925 split off from 510 until the 1990's. In the 1970's, I believe that the operative area codes were 415 (SF and the Pennisula), 510 (All East Bay), 408 (San Jose area) and 707 (Marin, Sonoma county and the coastal areas north to the Oregon border).

By the way, how large is the handwriting that is unchanged on the postcard? If it is "normal" size, then these "covered" numbers and words must be microscopic.

KivaSupporter said:

Wow! Thanks, Raf. This is really interesting. I was looking for words and numbers similar in size to the legible parts of the letter.

Now it looks like the obliterated text includes some large-size words and numbers and some tiny words and numbers.

On the right of the first obliterated line, I see the numbers 341 237 3873 or 341 237 3874. Area code 341 is an old area code which shows overlay on 510 which refers to 925. 925 is defined as: California: Contra Costa area: Antioch, Concord, Pleasanton, Walnut Creek (split from 510)

http://www.bennetyee.org/ucsd-pages/area.html#510

So, the number becomes 925-237-3873 or 925-237-3874.

The reverse number search shows these telephone numbers are in Antioch, CA.


http://www.reversephonedetective.com/searchresults.php?p=925-237-3874

I also see 38230 on the second line of the first obliterated text. That could be the zip code for Greenfield, Tennessee.

Now, the question is what does it all mean, if anything?

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Hi, it are several numbers, and seeming a sort of numerology phrase...
this I can read:
39...223
54...37
342237387
88577328
....77
47040
98973..3
3777398522
and this words:
Larry L..tsesles
Mas..all
...akland
the language is not english.. but strange words as eifee...
all write in very little size and on other more large and also transversal....

bye, raf

The size seems to be comparable to the size of letters and numbers on a postmark, maybe a bit smaller.

Dr. Doogie said:

By the way, how large is the handwriting that is unchanged on the postcard? If it is "normal" size, then these "covered" numbers and words must be microscopic.

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Thank you for the clarification.

So, if I understand it correctly, if that were a phone number, it would be somewhere in California?

Dr. Doogie said:

I don't believe that 925 split off from 510 until the 1990's. In the 1970's, I believe that the operative area codes were 415 (SF and the Pennisula), 510 (All East Bay), 408 (San Jose area) and 707 (Marin, Sonoma county and the coastal areas north to the Oregon border).

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