WA WA - Shantina Smiley, 29, & Azriel Carver, 8 (fnd deceased), Olympia, Mar 2010 - #3

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Lexiintoronto said:
He also said that she was 'back on the wagon' and would never drive while drinking, and would not put her son in harm's way - and the court records say otherwise. I understand that he wouldn't want to air her dirty laundry in public, but he was trying to negate what the evidence was pointing to.

(I don't want to add to his pain, but I think he did a disservice to the investigation by discounting the evidence that she was likely repeating past bad behaviour.)
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How can one get "back on the wagon" in a week anyway?
 
Lexiintoronto said:
He also said that she was 'back on the wagon' and would never drive while drinking, and would not put her son in harm's way - and the court records say otherwise. I understand that he wouldn't want to air her dirty laundry in public, but he was trying to negate what the evidence was pointing to.

(I don't want to add to his pain, but I think he did a disservice to the investigation by discounting the evidence that she was likely repeating past bad behaviour.)
Click to expand...

He works with children. In my opinion this gives him a reason to be very cognizant of his reputation at this point.

Are Scout leaders background checked?
 
Lipin One said:
Any chances that the smudges on the car were not caused by a car accident, but from the water?

I am thinking that maybe the water was filthy, and the top layers show dirt as the water receded.

Just wondering.

:)
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Mom_Son_Missing_JPE_467437c.jpg

A mark is evident is shown on the passenger side of the abandoned van of Shantina Smiley Tuesday March 16, 2010 in Tumwater,Wash., which was found on a beach near Zangle Road Sunday, with no trace of Smiley or her eight year-old son Azriel Carver. (AP Photo/The Olympian, Steve Bloom)

roadtobeach_t607.jpg

Off Zangle Road NE in North Olympia is a narrow gravel road leading to the beach where the van Shantina Smiley had been driving was found. The entrance to that gravel road is marked by a red arrow. (Photo courtesy of reader Robert Dashiell)

http://www.kitsapsun.com/photos/gal...tina-smiley-disappearance/8910/#ixzz0il5JQ15u

I know what you are saying about a water line. It looks to me like she scraped along something. Some have suggested the pole in the picture. Anyone else have an opinion on it?
 
Knox said:
He works with children. In my opinion this gives him a reason to be very cognizant of his reputation at this point.

Are Scout leaders background checked?
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I'll ask my daughter. I suspect so. In any case, a lot of what he has said is false or inconsistent or just flat doesn't make sense. I don't think he was necessarily involved, but I really hope the police look into everything before ruling this an accident.
 
Calliope said:
I'll ask my daughter. I suspect so. In any case, a lot of what he has said is false or inconsistent or just flat doesn't make sense. I don't think he was necessarily involved, but I really hope the police look into everything before ruling this an accident.
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Thanks Calliope. The reason I ask is Shantina was also a leader, the last contact with CPS had been very recent? Is that not something that shows up on a background check?
 
pufnstuf said:
I had assumed that this was an overhead shot after the van had been removed. I don't think that those are her tracks that circle in and then back out. Could be the neighbors who found the van.

The tide would have washed away her tracks down to the waterline.

Seems if the van were still there, the photog would have included it in the pic.
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Does anyone know what that is down there next to the tire marks?

Do you think it is a good suspect for the car marks on the side?
 
I would not be surprised if more unhappy information comes out. People who have had kids taken away, allowed kids to be placed in danger, and so forth rarely just have one or two instances. The kids are often in danger again and again and again, until tragedy happens like it has.

Odds are SS is dead. I am sorry for her rotten life, but why give Azriel such a rotten life? By the way, the minute I heard his name I was perturbed. That is a very famous name, in literature, a lot of fantasy literature -- it's the name of the ANGEL OF DEATH. It seems to me to just be taking him so lightly to have named him that. Seems he didn't really COUNT, didn't really MATTER his whole short life. Oh yes, I'm angry.

----

To those who keep wondering about shouting, screaming in the water, I'm not really sure how many screams a person could get out in that extremely cold water if they were knocked off their feet and with the clothes soaked and pulling you down. The water is so cold it takes your breath away.
 
90Nine said:
Does anyone know what that is down there next to the tire marks?

Do you think it is a good suspect for the car marks on the side?
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0315shantina_search1.jpg


I posted the pic here so we could look at it again. I have no idea what it is.
 
Smiley was last seen alive at 10 pm. Rob was with the stepfather from 8pm on. Therefore she was last seen alive after Rob has an alibi. He may be used to talking about himself, but unless he can be in two places at once, he's not directly involved.

Also, the Ariel's dad said on the D&R (?) radio show that he thought he seemed like a good guy and loved Smiley and Ariel and that he (Carver) didn't have any suspicions about him, based on talking to him.

So I think more likely booze is to blame in this mystery.
 
Silver~Bell said:
I would not be surprised if more unhappy information comes out. People who have had kids taken away, allowed kids to be placed in danger, and so forth rarely just have one or two instances. The kids are often in danger again and again and again, until tragedy happens like it has.

Odds are SS is dead. I am sorry for her rotten life, but why give Azriel such a rotten life? By the way, the minute I heard his name I was perturbed. That is a very famous name, in literature, a lot of fantasy literature -- it's the name of the ANGEL OF DEATH. It seems to me to just be taking him so lightly to have named him that. Seems he didn't really COUNT, didn't really MATTER his whole short life. Oh yes, I'm angry.

----

To those who keep wondering about shouting, screaming in the water, I'm not really sure how many screams a person could get out in that extremely cold water if they were knocked off their feet and with the clothes soaked and pulling you down. The water is so cold it takes your breath away.
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It may be the Angel of Death in fantasy literature but it's actually Hebrew and doesn't mean that at ALL!

The meaning of the name Azriel is God Is My Aid
The origin of the name Azriel is Hebrew
 
The only thing the bf is guilty of is poor judgement. He will live with this tragedy for the rest of his life. Alcohol and the choices Shantina made that night, have resulted in this sad ending. He has lost his future step-son and more than likely his future wife.
 
This is interesting - great link for a better view of the property from all directions.

The North view provides additional insight on how high the tides could go. You can click on the photo and drag it to see additional parts of the property.

If you click on the North photo and drag it towards the lower left corner is - you can see the end of the beach.

I thought the beach was continuous, but it actually ends.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/birds-eye-view-map/49361379_zpid/#birds-eye-view
 
TheNewsTribune.com
Section: Crime News < Back to Regular Story Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boy's body: 'Dynamic' tides carry objects for miles in hours

MIKE ARCHBOLD; Staff writer
The tidal currents of South Puget Sound make it easier to understand how the body of a missing boy showed up on a Fox Island beach 20 miles north of Dana Passage in the Olympia area.

Azriel Carver, 8, was last seen alive Saturday night with his mother, Shantina Smiley, north of Olympia. Her van was found on the beach near Boston Harbor off Dana Passage. She is still missing.

The outgoing current heads north out of Dana Passage and circulates around Anderson and McNeil islands before heading for the Tacoma Narrows, said Debbie Payton, an oceanographer with the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Seattle.

The Narrows is the drain, collecting the outgoing tide for all of South Puget Sound.

&#8220;If a wood chip is moving on the surface of the water (in Puget Sound) the net movement always is north and out of Puget Sound,&#8221; Payton said. &#8220;It may or may not beach. It depends on the wind.&#8221;

The combination of tides, tide-created currents and wind make projecting the exact journey of an item on the surface difficult.

Even the object itself is a variable. Payton said bodies initially sink to the bottom where current movement is less. They tend to stay there until they decompose and gases refloat the body to the surface.

Then current and wind take over.

Judging by the current speed north of Olympia, she said, a floating object could move eight to 12 nautical miles one way on a single tide. Going from Dana Passage to the southern end of Fox Island isn&#8217;t unreasonable, she said.

The island is the last barrier for objects floating north to the Narrows.

Unless the winds blow, floating objects tend to stay close to the center of a narrow passage where the current normally is faster. Even if a wind blew an object toward a beach, she said the next tide could refloat it and send it on its way.

&#8220;It&#8217;s very dynamic,&#8221; Payton said. &#8220;Where the water is deep and wide, the current is slow. Where it is shallow and narrow it goes fast.&#8221;

In the Puget Sound that dynamic can change rapidly, she said

Mike Archbold: 253-597-8692

mike.archbold@thenewstribune.com
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Read more: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2010/...ic-tides-carry-objects-for.html#ixzz0ilchoPas

I hope it's ok to post this copywritten article that was in our paper today. I found it very interesting.
 
darlin gal said:
It may be the Angel of Death in fantasy literature but it's actually Hebrew and doesn't mean that at ALL!

The meaning of the name Azriel is God Is My Aid
The origin of the name Azriel is Hebrew
Click to expand...


Actually, I believe that the Angel of Death is Azrael, totally different than Azriel.
 
Lexiintoronto said:
He also said that she was 'back on the wagon' and would never drive while drinking, and would not put her son in harm's way - and the court records say otherwise. I understand that he wouldn't want to air her dirty laundry in public, but he was trying to negate what the evidence was pointing to.

(I don't want to add to his pain, but I think he did a disservice to the investigation by discounting the evidence that she was likely repeating past bad behaviour.)
Click to expand...

BBM (bold by me)

Hi Lexi - I don't think he is obligated to tell the public, media, or anyone the truth about Smiley - just as long as he is accurate and truthful with LE, FBI, and anyone involved in the investigation. I'm assuming he told Law Enforcement the truth about Smiley. :twocents: moo

ETA: he's not even obligated to tell the media the truth about himself - if he begins to shuffle LE around, he can be charged with obstruction. MOO
 
90Nine said:
This is interesting - great link for a better view of the property from all directions.

The North view provides additional insight on how high the tides could go. You can click on the photo and drag it to see additional parts of the property.

If you click on the North photo and drag it towards the lower left corner is - you can see the end of the beach.

I thought the beach was continuous, but it actually ends.

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/birds-eye-view-map/49361379_zpid/#birds-eye-view
Click to expand...

Thank you for that, it was interesting. Which house heard the knock at 1am?
 
Knox said:
Thanks Calliope. The reason I ask is Shantina was also a leader, the last contact with CPS had been very recent? Is that not something that shows up on a background check?
Click to expand...

My understanding is that the only things that are shown on a typical background check are adjudicated (ie: "tried and convicted") offenses or current charges awaiting trial. CPS involvement is in a different system used for investigation-- if warranted, the info is turned over to the prosecutor for charges. So, unless she was adjudicated on charges (ie: felony child endangerment), it wouldn't be on a background check.


Unless it's an FBI type inquiry, then they call your BFF from high school and ask what cocktails you like to have on the weekend. (My best friend of 25 years is an attorney for the feds... guess who got a call when she applied for the latest position?) :dance:
 
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