State vs Jason Lynn Young: weekend discussion 11-25 Feb 2012

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Talina said:
Yes, I understand what the DT argument could be. I just don't see how some people mention the size 10 shoes and immediately follow with the thought that inserts doubt that JY was there. I just don't see how it does that at all.

One has not one thing to do with the other IMO. Size 12 shoes were there and size 10 shoes were there. JY wears size 12 shoes. The print matches shoes that he purchased from DSW. Those shoes were not very common shoes as testified by the manufacturer. Where are they? (supposedly at Goodwill - very convenient IMO). So now we have 2 different sizes at the scene. So what? Yes, there is mystery and theories of how the size 10 shoes got there. But in those discussions, some people seem to completely forget about those size 12 shoe prints being there as well. It's like "until I can figure out where the size 10 came from, don't even mention to me the size 12 shoes." :banghead:

IMO
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I agree with that. Just because a killer(s) has, with every effort toward this goal, managed to create an unanswered question about the case does not erase the rest of the picture for me.
 
Talina said:
. I just don't see how some people mention the size 10 shoes and immediately follow with the thought that inserts doubt that JY was there. I just don't see how it does that at all.

IMO
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I agree Talina :banghead:

Same thing with the lady that thought she saw a vehicle at the end of the Young's drive at 5:30AM.

That is not reasonable doubt for JLY to be found NG.
 
oakayfine said:
Wow, it has been quite a while since I have been to WS but the atmosphere has certainly changed.
It is beginning to remind me of IS days. The reason I liked WS was because of the respect afforded to the vicitms and the their families, unlike IS.
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I agree completely.

:goodpost:

:gomods:

:justice:
 
gritguy said:
Cammy, you guys have been going on about posters on the G side and their treatment of NG posters, and you post it gets pretty scary and obsessed is a good word? Unless I'm misunderstanding, I would take that as being pointed toward posters, on this board.

And since those comments don't reflect on a theory of the case or evidence, but rather posters, it seems a personal attack toward some and that's the thing I thought you guys were complaining about, IMO.

I don't know any poster here, so I can't speculate on anybody's motives or really even their state of mind. I don't know why it matters for some out of state to spend as much time as they do studying this case and finding what they feel are flaws in the state's case. I don't know why it matters for some that JY be found guilty. So, rather than worry about posters' motives, I try to concentrate on their merit.

I'm interested to see the DT case, and even your list of items that would cause reasonable doubt.

At any rate, catch you guys later - I'm about to experience some serious windshield time and bonding with Interstate 40.
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Nope, just in general speaking of people, including those at GOLO, some scary people out there.
I don't want to know them any better if just reading their posts is this frightening or an insight as to who they are.
Have a good trip.
I will post my Reasonable Doubt or NG list later.

:)
 
thumbtack said:
4-he stuffed his foot in & put up w/ temporary discomfort/pain

With your WS name, I guess we know which side you are on!
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My name is Gil and my surname begins with T, hence my nick, nothing to do with guilt or innocence of anyone.

I like to keep an open mind and I haven't decided on g or ng, however, am leaning towards guilty. Too many coincidences coupled with one of the most telling and compelling things in this case which is JY behavior immediately after learning of his wifes murder, imo is beyond peculiar and a huge deciding factor when the evidence is weighed collectively.
 
Just the Fax said:
Yes, grit, what gets me the most is the factual misrepresentation I see here by a certain poster every day. Not sure if it is just complete misunderstanding of the case facts or by design to mislead new posters, not as familiar with the case.
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I often wonder about clones here lately.
 
LOMom said:
Perhaps where the killer leaves no DNA evidence at the scene, the police should just not pursue the killer. Maybe they can treat it as a reward to the killer for being so good a committing a crime with little evidence? Uh, I don't think so.
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It happens though. The Jenna Nielsen case(delivering newspapers and was stabbed at the gas station on Lake Wheeler Rd in Raleigh) comes to mind. I actually thought of that case when I heard about Michelle's murder - I think it's still unsolved.

Also there was DNA in this case, it just doesn't match JY.
 
Cammy said:
Nope, just in general speaking of people, including those at GOLO, some scary people out there.
I don't want to know them any better if just reading their posts is this frightening or an insight as to who they are.
Have a good trip.
I will post my Reasonable Doubt or NG list later.

:)
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Thanks - GOLO is a disaster I agree!

See y'all later (I cheated and came back!)
 
fromageball said:
It happens though. The Jenna Nielsen case(delivering newspapers and was stabbed at the gas station on Lake Wheeler Rd in Raleigh) comes to mind. I actually thought of that case when I heard about Michelle's murder - I think it's still unsolved.

Also there was DNA in this case, it just doesn't match JY.
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Fromageball........:woohoo:

Good to see you.

There has never been anyone arrested in the Neilsen case, and plenty of unidentified dna in this case.

I hope the defense is ready to tackle it all this week and leaves nothing to chance.

Wish I had a cheat sheet on their witness list..
 
Talina said:
Yes, I understand what the DT argument could be. I just don't see how some people mention the size 10 shoes and immediately follow with the thought that inserts doubt that JY was there. I just don't see how it does that at all.

IMO
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The problem with the size 10 shoes is that since there are missing pieces in the case, as a juror that would lead me to wonder whether, if we had all of the information, the entire picture would change. That may not make sense, but if I were a juror in this case it would be very difficult because I feel like I do not have enough information to know whether or not JY committed the murder, and that would leave me with reasonable doubt regarding a verdict. (speaking for myself only, the hush puppy prints do not seal the deal for me)

That is one of the major holes in the case from the first trial that was not patched up in the second.

I think the two sets of shoe prints are a big part of why there was a hung jury in the last trial. We can rationalize away on here that JY wore them both or whatever, but I don't think a jury is going to speculate like that. I do realize that the jury can conclude that JY was there and that they just don't know who the other person was - and in that case the jury might accept that the hush puppy prints belonged to JY and not worry about the other prints.

JMO
 
Cammy said:
Good thing you weren't here yesterday, then GG.

Luckily, you missed the discussion of whether Shelly Schaad said she was scared that nite and felt someone was watching them.!
We had to post, link, timestamp her testimony on video saying that over and over again and it was still called into question.
:)
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Very well may have been because some joined the party late and were just catching up with comments from the day. Not everyone can afford the time to spend reading and posting comments as they are posted.
 
fromageball said:
It happens though. The Jenna Nielsen case(delivering newspapers and was stabbed at the gas station on Lake Wheeler Rd in Raleigh) comes to mind. I actually thought of that case when I heard about Michelle's murder - I think it's still unsolved.

Also there was DNA in this case, it just doesn't match JY.
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There is DNA from the killer in the Neisen case....stabbed for cash at a gas station on the edge of town.
 
fromageball said:
The problem with the size 10 shoes is that since there are missing pieces in the case, as a juror that would lead me to wonder whether, if we had all of the information, the entire picture would change. That may not make sense, but if I were a juror in this case it would be very difficult because I feel like I do not have enough information to know whether or not JY committed the murder, and that would leave me with reasonable doubt regarding a verdict. (speaking for myself only, the hush puppy prints do not seal the deal for me)

That is one of the major holes in the case from the first trial that was not patched up in the second.

I think the two sets of shoe prints are a big part of why there was a hung jury in the last trial. We can rationalize away on here that JY wore them both or whatever, but I don't think a jury is going to speculate like that. I do realize that the jury can conclude that JY was there and that they just don't know who the other person was - and in that case the jury might accept that the hush puppy prints belonged to JY and not worry about the other prints.

JMO
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No way, imo, Jason had 2 pair of shoes on in different sizes .
2 people were in that house.
 
fromageball said:
The problem with the size 10 shoes is that since there are missing pieces in the case, as a juror that would lead me to wonder whether, if we had all of the information, the entire picture would change. That may not make sense, but if I were a juror in this case it would be very difficult because I feel like I do not have enough information to know whether or not JY committed the murder, and that would leave me with reasonable doubt regarding a verdict. (speaking for myself only, the hush puppy prints do not seal the deal for me)

That is one of the major holes in the case from the first trial that was not patched up in the second.

I think the two sets of shoe prints are a big part of why there was a hung jury in the last trial. We can rationalize away on here that JY wore them both or whatever, but I don't think a jury is going to speculate like that.

JMO
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I don't have to speculate anything about the size 10 prints. The fact that JY's prints are there, along with all the other evidence proves to me he did it. The size 10 prints do not erase the size 12 prints. No evidence has been presented to explain the 10 prints so for the jury to think up a scenario surrounding those prints to exonerate JY is speculation.
 
fromageball said:
Also there was DNA in this case, it just doesn't match JY.
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One DNA test on the jewelry box-partial profile 2/16 markers, jy could not be excluded.

Another by LabCorp. 4 /16 markers, mixture of more than one. Excluded MY & JY.


Jay's DNA was all over the sheet-rock, in low areas near the beating.
Where was any other unmatched DNA at this crime scene?
With that horrific scene, I would expect the killer to deposit his DNA in multiple places..... and he did.
 
Cammy said:
No way, imo, Jason had 2 pair of shoes there in different sizes .
2 people were in that house.
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For some reason the second part of that didn't show up, but I agree. Based on the evidence there is nothing to conclude that one person made both sets of the prints, so the jury would probably assume that there were two people.

Whether or not they conclude that JY was there or that the two sets create reasonable doubt remains to be seen.
 
giltee said:
My name is Gil and my surname begins with T, hence my nick, nothing to do with guilt or innocence of anyone.

I like to keep an open mind and I haven't decided on g or ng, however, am leaning towards guilty. Too many coincidences coupled with one of the most telling and compelling things in this case which is JY behavior immediately after learning of his wifes murder, imo is beyond peculiar and a huge deciding factor when the evidence is weighed collectively.
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Hi Gil, I was just trying to be funny w/ your ws name. I should have added LOL. Obviously, you're not going to feel guilty on every case in ws.

just being silly. i agree w/ you about JY's behavior & all the coincidences
 
gritguy said:
I would think the idea being there's no evidence of who he would have been there with?

Clearly it doesn't diminish the other shoes having been there.

If ONLY the HP orbitals had left prints, I wonder if it would have changed any minds. If not, the Franklins don't really play in.

If I were the DT, I would make the point that the PT wants you to take evidence at face value, common sense. Fair enough. There are two sets of shoe prints there. Even if one were a set JY still had, the PT has not shown ANYONE he could or would have partnered up with. His every call and e-mail has been displayed, and no suggestion is made that anyone he communicated with could have helped him. Therefore, common sense says whoever the two killers were would not have included JY, because the evidence shows he didn't coordinate with anyone or have a partner.

I don't buy that, but I could see that line of thinking and argument.
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2 random killers who did not leave prints anywhere in the house but the master bedroom...that's a really neat trick.
 
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