Vehicles

human said:

Do you mean Joy's blog? I do not read on there anymore.

She can access IP's so I am not imterested in that.

Click to expand...

Fukiyama said:

So I take that as a no, you did not read my reply, in which I quoted the relevant section of Joy's post.

Click to expand...

human said:

Do you mean Joy's blog? I do not read on there anymore.

She can access IP's so I am not imterested in that.

Click to expand...

Second, here’s another tidbit I’ve mentioned once before. At the time of Jacob’s abduction, there was another boy who lived on 91st Avenue, who felt maybe he had been the intended target of the abduction that night instead of Jacob. He was 14 years old at the time, and unlike Jacob who had never been allowed to go to the store before after dark, this boy and his 12 year old friend had spent nearly every night that summer going to the Tom Thumb after dark.

Here’s his story. One night, he and his 12 year old friend were coming home from the Tom Thumb, maybe around midnight. They were on Baker Street and were taking a left onto 91st Avenue, when a car came from behind them and suddenly started coming faster and faster. As they got closer to the 12 year old’s house, they cut through the ditch, across his front yard, and into the open garage as fast as they could. The car followed them into the driveway, then backed straight across the road into the neighbor’s driveway, and flashed its bright lights on the two boys. The car stayed like that for about two minutes before the boys finally ran into the house.

A couple weeks later, the boys got brave and decided to head to the Tom Thumb once again. It was late, and this time, they noticed a car going from mailbox to mailbox… very slowly… like he was getting information from each residence.

The boys remembered the car looking similar to a Pontiac 6000, but they disagreed on the color… one said blue, the other said red. For this reason, they felt like maybe they weren’t believed when they told their story to the police just few days after Jacob was abducted.

Click to expand...

StinkSprings said:

Joy's blog is fantastic! I've seen you reference things Joy's uncovered.

Click to expand...

Fukiyama said:

For human (click here for the original post):

Click to expand...

Fukiyama said:

For human (click here for the original post):

Click to expand...

human said:

No more thoughts on cars?

Click to expand...

human said:

I don't think any suspicious trucks were reported. Doesn't every farm have at least one pick up truck?

Click to expand...

Trackergd said:

Well, since you asked... We have concentrated on cars. A pickup truck of that era would have used tires that would look very close to a car tire, however the width between centers for the tire tracks would be a bit wider. An older pickup would have a king pin front suspension rather than ball joints, and as such the tires might "wander" a bit in the line of travel. Same with a Jeep. We only know what DR reported, and to that point, we do not know if it is factual or misinformation for motives unknown.

Click to expand...

ELOCsoul said:

The following analysis is my opinion only.

It’s all about the cars, simple as that. Specifically, is DR telling the truth when he says he saw two cars in his driveway on the day that Jacob was abducted (with neither of those cars being Kevin's)? And equally as important, when did he report that information to LE and the media?

On the one hand, if DR is telling the truth about the cars, and told LE about those cars from day one – then it stands to reason that he could well be an innocent witness, and there was indeed something sinister brewing in St Joseph on that 22nd day of October 1989.

Factors That Support DR’s Story About the Cars
1. He did tell the media, on October 23, that he saw a small car turn around in his driveway. That info was reported in the St Cloud Times and directly quoted to DR.
2. There were several attempted abductions reported within a 50 mile radius of the Twin Cities in fall 1989, with the car being described as a large tan car. The abduction attempts reported tended to be within a few miles of I-94.

On the other hand – if DR did not tell LE about the 2 cars right away – that would most certainly indicate that he made up the story in an attempt to cover up the crime. If he saw the cars, there would be no logical reason for him to withhold that information from LE.

Factors That Question DR’s Story About the Cars
1. If he did tell the media and LE about both the cars he saw in his driveway, then why wasn’t that information reported publicly at the time? The newspapers were peppered with stories about attempted abductions, vehicle descriptions, etc – why was there no public communication about DR seeing cars?
2. There were several attempted abductions reported in the area shortly after Jacob’s abduction. A tan car was described in several of those reports. If DR did not report on the afternoon car immediately, then it’s likely that he took bits of info from the reports of attempted abductions, and crafted a story to fit those scenarios.
3. DR insists that the driver of that afternoon car is the one guilty of committing the abduction. There is no logic in that assertion; it just doesn’t make sense on any level.
4. Prior to this year, DR has been quoted as saying he witnessed things throughout the day that coalesced in his mind as important information that could lead to the abductor. He refused to go public with the information for fear that it could tip off the kidnapper. Again, that does not make any logical sense. The fact that DR publicly stated that he saw things that day, alone in itself, would tip off the “real” kidnapper because that person would know or figure out whose driveway he was on when he turned around – why would DR think holding back information about the cars would jeopardize the investigation?
5. DR says he didn't see or hear Kevin's car in the driveway that night, minutes after the abduction. DR's dog barking alerts him to the 2nd car in his driveway, but minutes later Kevin, presumably driving slower than the other two cars, doesn't give the dog cause to bark furiously? IMO, the slower the car in the driveway, the louder and longer a dog will bark. A fast moving car - that's likely to startle a dog, but hard to tell how quickly the dog would react by barking.
6. When Kevin came forward in 2004 to provide the information that he was driving the car in DR's driveway that night - why did LE suddenly change their theory of the case to an abduction on foot? That would indicate to me that LE didn't "buy" his story about he other two cars he reported (again, when did he report them?). So that raises a big question - if LE didn't believe DR about the other two cars, then why would they believe a car was involved at all, ever?

Another thing about DR’s story that does not add up, in my opinion, are parts of his account of his day. This is an example I don't think anyone has brought up before now - he says he remembers getting the newspaper that evening when he returned from his run. First – that is an odd thing to remember about something that happened 23 years ago. Second – it’s so insignificant that one has to wonder why he even stated it. Third – who doesn’t look forward to getting the Sunday paper every week? I don’t know about you all, but if I don’t get the Sunday paper from the box before 8am it’s because I’m out of town! OK, yeah I’m probably making too big a deal about the newspaper, but one has to wonder if DR’s motive for including that odd detail is to have an explanation at to why his scent or presence was detected near the mailbox where the abduction took place. He lives there, why would he feel the need to justify it?? Just sayin’

Click to expand...

Sasquatch321 said:

What an outstanding post full of great questions.

Click to expand...

ELOCsoul said:

Had forgotten about this post, what was the date of that post? I remember making a big list of all the things we knew at the time and coming to the conclusion that it was indeed all about the cars. If DR was telling the truth then he was innocent, if he was making it up as media suggested then he was probably involved. Turned out he was telling the truth all along....

Click to expand...

Trackergd said:

So I had a little bit of time last week to do some digging and I have some points to ponder... The Ford EXP is a two door hatchback. We already know the tire pattern for the EXP is consistent with tire tracks in DR's driveway and the FBI has indicated as much. We know our new POI owned a blue Ford EXP. Question 1. The EXP is very unique looking. I would have thought DR would have taken notice of it's unusual body style. Question 2. What is generally accepted as Jacobs last shoe print is next to the tire track, facing what would have been the vehicle. Since the EXP is a two door, if it was facing the street did the perp push him in the drivers door and then get in himself, or was the car facing towards DR's house and he pushed Jacob in the passengers door and run around the front/back to the drivers side? A two door would almost preclude a confederate unless he was crammed in the hatchback area. Pushing Jacob in the passenger side would also mean there were additional perp prints that either made no sense to LE at the time, or were missed. Any thoughts along this line?

Click to expand...

ELOCsoul said:

Regarding question number 2...it's always been my opinion that the car was parked facing east, away from the road, and that the car was a 2 door vehicle. Note that from the shadow across the toe of Jacobs print, we know that he was facing south. To me it is most logical that the abductor would have put Jacob into the car from the driver's side, because doing so would make for a faster getaway. This could also explain the front toe digging in, as Jacob would have had to basically crawl through to the passenger side. If the perp was parked facing east, it means there would have been an additional 30-40 seconds of time spent turning around in the DR driveway. That extra time, over and above the time it took to secure Jacob in the car, could explain why Trevor and Aaron never saw a car.

Regarding the unusual shape of the Ford EXP...it was so dark out I'm not sure DR would have noticed the shape. Factor in that he was not likely wearing corrective lenses at that moment...the scene may have been a little blurry for him.

Click to expand...

ELOCsoul said:

Regarding question number 2...it's always been my opinion that the car was parked facing east, away from the road, and that the car was a 2 door vehicle. Note that from the shadow across the toe of Jacobs print, we know that he was facing south. To me it is most logical that the abductor would have put Jacob into the car from the driver's side, because doing so would make for a faster getaway. This could also explain the front toe digging in, as Jacob would have had to basically crawl through to the passenger side. If the perp was parked facing east, it means there would have been an additional 30-40 seconds of time spent turning around in the DR driveway. That extra time, over and above the time it took to secure Jacob in the car, could explain why Trevor and Aaron never saw a car.

Regarding the unusual shape of the Ford EXP...it was so dark out I'm not sure DR would have noticed the shape. Factor in that he was not likely wearing corrective lenses at that moment...the scene may have been a little blurry for him.

Click to expand...