Here are his court qualifications:
Also, there is more information at his business site:
The cries for help
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Here are his court qualifications:
Also, there is more information at his business site:
There was no indication in the reports we have seen so far that indicate they heard the gunshot so I doubt they heard the screams. There was also no mention of the screams in the preliminary reports that have been released.
I think they got reports of the altercation and the gunshot from the dispatchers before they got on scene, but so far I have not seen the dispatcher logs for any calls other than those from GZ.
IMO, JMO, etc.
vlpate
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You are right, but I found even more information on his "credentials".
Tom Owen lists things like this on his resume of qualifications:
Instructor New York Institute for Forensic Audio 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998,
1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005,2006, 2007
As prestigious as the New York Institute for Forensic Audio sounds, there is no such brick and mortar institute. It is actually a division of Owen Investigations, LLC. Tom Owen is basically claiming he was an instructor at his own unaccredited university. http://www.owlinvestigations.com/classes.html
Further, for $350, anyone can buy credentials from Thomas O'Block, an ex college professor who was fired for plagiarism.
The Making of an Expert Witness: It's in the Credentials
Take a look at the list on this page of Owen's affiliated sites: American Board of Recorded Evidence
Scroll to " American Psychotherapy Association"
and the read Have You Seen This? Dr. Zoe D. Katze
"World meet Dr. Zoe D. Katze. She's board certified, surprisingly short and has an unfortunate back hair problem That's because she's a cat. Yes you read that correctly. The feline Zoe Katze is a Ph.D., C.Ht., and a DAPA and she has the paperwork to prove it.
<snip>
Eichel bought certifications from the National Guild of Hypnotists, the American Board of Hypnotherapy and the American Association of Professional Hypnotherapists. He then sent those credentials into the American Psychotherapy Association (APA), which Eichel is a member. The APA then asked for a resume from Dr. Katze."
In fact, all of the "boards" listed on the Tom Owen site, including the ones below, are owned by O'Block. The Public Court: The CSI Effect
WINNER of the GOLDEN EAGLE AWARD 1997 American Board of Recorded
Evidence
AWARDED BY AMERICAN COLLEGE OF FORENSIC EXAMINERS for
appreciation and gratitude for his dedicated leadership as Chairman of the American
Board of Recorded Evidence 1997 - 1998
AWARDED BY AMERICAN COLLEGE OF FORENSIC EXAMINERS The ACFE
Outstanding Service Award for his efforts and dedication to the ACFE Organization.
October 2000, Las Vegas, NV
LINK
It would appear Tom Owen may have bought his credentials, rather than obtaining them the old fashioned way, earning them. JMO
gxm
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IMO, the prosecution won't be able to ask these questions. GZ's family members can identify his voice/scream but they will not be able to testify to the actual fight as they were not there. I'm guessing MOM will quickly object if the prosecution tries to sneak that in.
JMO, OMO, and :moo:
gxm
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Maybe I've watched too many movies, but a fired shot is usually something that silences everyone. Perhaps it's an animal instinct to be quiet and listen for where the threat is coming from.
JMO, OMO, and :moo:
And welcome to WS!
That's my experience also, outside of firing ranges and such anyway.
Edit: Also, I don't think I would consider someone a threat after being shot unless they were able to get back up and continue the attack. With that being said, even though I have been to Afghanistan twice, I have never shot someone so this is purely my own feeling for what would be going through my mind.
LiveLaughLuv
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I believe they will play it for the jury and they can decide who they believe is screaming for their life, I believe it's not GZ...
Sybrina Fulton heard the tape when the SP played it for her...She ran out of the room, knowing, believeing it's her son's screaming for help. That will go a long way for the jurors..as ACorey had stated during the press conf to announce the charges.
I can't imagine how this family feels knowing the last moments of their son's life was filled with terror. Excruciating terror knowing this is their son's final moment alive on this earth, an innocent teen killed for no reason other than what GZ's paranoid mind told him. His mentaliy is the reason for this behavior. I belive GZ has impulse control issues along with anger management issues. I'd love to know what happened immediately before GZ decided to go to Target for his milk run. Did he and his wife argue? Did something else set his anger off? Something is wrong with GZ, I certainly hope the state has done a psycological on this guy to see what makes him this ticking time bomb...
Justice for Trayvon Martin
Sybrina Fulton heard the tape when the SP played it for her...She ran out of the room, knowing, believeing it's her son's screaming for help. That will go a long way for the jurors..as ACorey had stated during the press conf to announce the charges.
I can't imagine how this family feels knowing the last moments of their son's life was filled with terror. Excruciating terror knowing this is their son's final moment alive on this earth, an innocent teen killed for no reason other than what GZ's paranoid mind told him. His mentaliy is the reason for this behavior. I belive GZ has impulse control issues along with anger management issues. I'd love to know what happened immediately before GZ decided to go to Target for his milk run. Did he and his wife argue? Did something else set his anger off? Something is wrong with GZ, I certainly hope the state has done a psycological on this guy to see what makes him this ticking time bomb...
Justice for Trayvon Martin
Why not call the father? I think that lies in the fact that at least once he stated he didn't feel it was his son.
My first question to his mother would be: "Have you ever heard your son screaming in fear prior to this event?"
My second question would be: "Have you ever heard Mr. Zimmerman scream in fear?"
LiveLaughLuv
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A mother knows her son's voice...I dont' understand this need to put down anything said from TM's family but GZ's family tells it true?...
they know their son's voice and know that was HIS scream out of fear. Why would they need to hear this fearful scream before this fateful night?
What makes you believe Tracey Martin didn't think this was his sons screams?
Where did you get that info that Tracey Martin did not ID that wail as his sons?
Elley Mae
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http://articles.orlandosentinel.com..._1_miami-schools-punch-unarmed-black-teenager
One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.
bbm
One witness, who has since talked to local television news reporters, told police he saw Zimmerman on the ground with Trayvon on top, pounding him — and was unequivocal that it was Zimmerman who was crying for help.
bbm
Phoenixfla
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:goodpost:
Phoenixfla
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Does that apply to GZ's mother, or just TMs?
I can't find a specific source and I don't really have the means to do so right now, so I'll withdraw my assertion that his father said it wasn't his. However, that does bring me to some new questions:
- Is this only bound to mothers?
- Why doesn't the prosecution say, on the affidavit, that Tracy has made the same claim?
I am not saying she's not being truthful. I believe she does feel that it's her son's voice, but that does not make it to be the truth. I'm sure if you told my mother I was just shot to death and played the EXACT SAME TAPE (obviously not my screams) she would say it's mine.
If they had not heard him scream in fear prior to that night how can they say with any confidence that it IS him? Just because you've heard him yelling at his friends on the football field doesn't mean you've heard him YELL IN FEAR.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...20120316_1_deadly-shooting-shot-man-reports/2
Serino said Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, listened to all of the 911 calls in the case before the entire family convened at City Hall to listen Friday night. When asked if the voice on one, a male calling for help was his son, told Serino no.
Police lied Friday, Crump said, when they said Tracy Martin said the voice crying for help was not his son. What Tracy Martin told police, Crump said, was that "he couldn't tell, that it was too distorted."
The audio has since been cleaned up, and now Tracy Martin has no doubt but that the voice is his son, Crump said.
So again, Crump needed to do damage control on what was said initially. Why does Serino feel the need to lie about what TM initially said if he initially thought GZ should be charged anyway?
Donjeta
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If both the prosecution and the defense bring out a mother to say it's their son they would tend to cancel each other out imo unless one is perceived as not credible.
None of the parents involved here have (hopefully) had many opportunities to witness their son screaming in fear for his life.
Emotional factors that can cloud perception include "OMG, I can't believe my son screamed like that before he died, it's not him", "OMG, I can't believe my son screamed like that before he died, we must get him justice", and "OMG, we must save our son from prison, that has GOT to be his voice to prove that he was in mortal fear".
None of the parents involved here have (hopefully) had many opportunities to witness their son screaming in fear for his life.
Emotional factors that can cloud perception include "OMG, I can't believe my son screamed like that before he died, it's not him", "OMG, I can't believe my son screamed like that before he died, we must get him justice", and "OMG, we must save our son from prison, that has GOT to be his voice to prove that he was in mortal fear".
I agree, which means it'll fall on either forensic audio to try to determine a voice and/or eyewitnesses.
Which wont happen, I'd bet. The "expert" who used software on all of the media outlets has been challenged here and shown to be, at best, a nation-wide commercial for the software he used. In other posts people have pointed out that the FBI does not use voice analysis for court evidence, only the means of a "warm fuzzy" (my estimation) just like a polygraph. There is one other "expert" but I haven't seen a whole lot of talk of him from those who support Zimmerman or Florida State.
Velouria
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But how do we know that Serino is lying, and was not misquoted instead?
After all, hasn't it been stated on this forum that there have been numerous instances of shoddy reporting in this case?
Good question...And I suspect Serino has the answer...JMHO
I am hoping they have technology that proves it's Trayvon. Those screams sound to me like a young person who's in terrible, terrible fear for his life. I don't believe for one second someone who has gun full 'o hollow point bullets would choose "screaming" over pulling the trigger.
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