MO - Grief & protests follow shooting of teen Michael Brown #11

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katydid23 said:
I agree. But why is Darryl Parks doubting its authenticity on NG, when just this morning this audio was labeled 'the smoking gun' and the 'gamechanger' for MB. Why the sudden reversal on it's authenticity?
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He said it was because they didn't hear the intial shot that happened in the car on that tape.
 
katydid23 said:
THANK YOU. I think this is so important in looking at MB's state of mind. His attorneys keep saying NONE of his behavior matters. But I find that ridiculous. His bizarre and irrational behavior has everything to do with what happened in his interaction with the officer. From blocking traffic and refusing the officers request to move, all the while carrying the stolen merchandise from the robbery minutes earlier. That is bizarre behavior and shows he had no rational thoughts as to how to deal with the immediate situation.

And when people say " why would he rush the armed officer?" I have to say I don't know, but it fits the pattern of irrational, illogical behavior of the previous hour.
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Absolutely, that is the way I see it. He was already exhibiting violent behavior and was reportedly taunting the officer. That is not normal IMO. There was definitely something going on with him prior to the deadly interaction with the officer.
 
reedus23 said:
That is what has to be determined. Was he charging the cop, was he surrendering to the cop. He may very well have continued posing an immediate threat. Or he may not. You are obviously entitled to your opinion that he continued to pose an immediate threat. I don't feel I have enough to say either way. Heck, I haven't even heard the cop's version of what happened, much less what was happening 35 feet away from the car (not at the car, 35 feet away from it).
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But if the cop was not AT THE CAR, then the 35 feet does not matter. What if the cop had walked towards the suspects while firing and was within 23 feet?
 
Lovejac said:
Believe it or not, Parcells was on NG tonight.

But she didn't call him ME this time or Professer. She asked him a question about being able to tell the sequence of shots.
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:facepalm:

Discussion with Furman and the tape next
 
jggordo said:
I have a couple questions about the GJ that maybe someone could help with.IIRC the GJ was empanelled in May and service to conclude at the end of Sept.. If that be the case, can they (will they) hold over the GJ until the conclusion of the case.
Just wondering.
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Yes, this particular grand jury's term has been extended... if necessary iirc.
 
tlcya said:
No. because you are not attempting evade arrest and capture for that felony and you are not a possible danger to the public because there is no threat you will get away and possibly harm or kill another.

Question, if you do that, then proceed to wrestle the officer's gun away from him and he allows you to just run off, evade capture and ten minutes later you kill a person with it or your bare hands what are the odds that person's family will file a civil suit for millions against the city for failure of that officer to do his duty? Or alternatively, he allows you to run off figuring he will catch up to you after backup arrives and you in the meantime have taken a small child hostage in a nearby playground. In the ensuing standoff the child is killed either by you or by police attempting to take you out. Flash forward to million dollar civil suit against city and PD for failure to protect.

My point - we could what if til those :moo: s come home. None of the above happened in this case.
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My point with the question is to highlight the fact that going for the gun, not going for the gun, slammed door or punch isn't as important as what happened 35 feet from the car. Some reports say he charged the cop. Some say he was surrendering in various forms. To me that is what will determine whether the shooting was justified. Just my opinion and I certainly don't expect others to agree with me. I do enjoy the civil discussion though. Frankly, I think the entire Ferguson community(citizens and LE) would stand to benefit from joining WS. lol
 
CoolJ said:
Interesting way to look at things.
What about this. What if MB got away.. And they located him a few hours later... Are they allowed to shoot to kill because he was possibly aggressive earlier? What about if it was a couple days later? Allowed to shoot him then? Is he still a danger to the public?
If this is the case then why bother trying to arrest any violent criminal... Why don't we just bring them all in in body bags? We already know they are a danger to the public... Does this give police justification?
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Very important questions. Not a lot of people seem concerned about the extra 4-5 bullets sprayed around this residential neighborhood. Seems LE was a bigger threat to that neighborhood's safety than any civilian that day.

Thank you for this.
 
reedus23 said:
Whoever decried it the "smoking gun" or "gamechanger" is a fool. MHO obviously. It potentially is one more part to the puzzle, but not a complete gamechanger. That is an overstatement. There will likely be and rarely are smoking guns and gamechangers IMO.
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That would be Don Lemon on CNN

He probably cried when Parks said he wasn't sure if it was authentic.
 
Lovejac said:
He said it was because they didn't hear the intial shot that happened in the car on that tape.
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Right, but I find that bizarre. There are lots of rational explanations for the initial shot not being heard.

But just this morning I heard three huge stories on CNN and MSNBC, calling this tape the GAME CHANGER and the SMOKING GUN. Then suddenly Parks is questioning it's authenticity. I find that so surprising given the earlier reports that it was the straw that broke the camels back, and it would insure an indictment.
 
CoolJ said:
Thanks for the discussion all. I am out for the night. Just would like to say I do understand LE have a tough job and most of them are passionate about what they do. But when a LEO shoots an unarmed person, we need to find out his reasoning for believing he was in immediate danger. We cannot have police running around think that they will always be given the benefit of the doubt in these cases, there have been too many documented cases of police brutality over the years to give that to them. They must prove that they had no other option and when they prove that, then they should be commended for having to be the one who pulled the trigger on another human being who was obviously suicidal. I just don't see that here yet... Not saying I won't,just saying not yet.

Going forward IMO, the only answer to put a stop to these incidents is for each LEO EVERYWHERE to have a quality bodycam with audio. That is what this has come to. Dash cams won't cut it. The question though becomes are the unions going to fight this? Do they really want us to see what happens day in and day out. Do they want us to see how there members interact with the public? The answer to that question will be extremely revealing.
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I think most people here are going where they think the known information takes them, but would easily reverse course if new information came to light that pointed in another direction. The facts are that we give police the power to make these split second decisions in order to ensure public safety. We hope they use that power responsibly, and it's clear that every day many times over, in every city in America that proves to be the case. Police shootings are an extremely small fraction of all police interactions and "bad" shootings are an even smaller fraction of those. The facts just don't support the prevailing narrative the Crumps at all are in STL to push about open season on black boys by white cops or white people, etc. The fact that we've seen this dog and pony show play out before I don't doubt is what leads to a lot of skepticism here as well.
 
Lovejac said:
Believe it or not, Parcells was on NG tonight.

But she didn't call him ME this time or Professer. She asked him a question about being able to tell the sequence of shots.
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Did he have an answer
 
popsicle said:
Retweeted by Shimon Prokupecz
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CNN Video ‏@CNNVideo 24m
A shouting match ensued between a #Ferguson business owner and #DarrenWilson supporters: http://cnn.it/YWG1Gf
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​
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This has nothing to do with what the results of this case should be, but if true, it goes to show there are some deep seated issues in Ferguson that have to be overcome when owners of businesses that not long ago were subject to looting and destruction are shouting at those who support someone who is there to protect and serve those businesses.
 
reedus23 said:
And I am certainly willing to listen to any reasonable explanation for it beyond it was a mistake.
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What statement in the report are we discussing specifically? I read the report, but am I missing something?
 
reedus23 said:
My point with the question is to highlight the fact that going for the gun, not going for the gun, slammed door or punch isn't as important as what happened 35 feet from the car. Some reports say he charged the cop. Some say he was surrendering in various forms. To me that is what will determine whether the shooting was justified. Just my opinion and I certainly don't expect others to agree with me. I do enjoy the civil discussion though. Frankly, I think the entire Ferguson community(citizens and LE) would stand to benefit from joining WS. lol
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I agree that it really comes down to if MB stopped and surrendered prior to being shot and killed or if he decided to charge the officer and was shot and killed.
 
Lovejac said:
Not katydid, but in that situation, that would not be a justified shooting to me.

For me, MB trying to get Officer Wilson's gun is the point of no return, because there is only one reason to try and steal someone's gun from them. IMO
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But 35 feet from the car we know he didn't have Wilson's gun. Again, the question is, 35 feet from the car, was he continuing to be an immediate threat or had he essentially given himself up. I don't know. Some say they do on either side and that's fine.
 
CHERIE.T said:
Pflllittt I'm with you. .....MB stayed in the middle of the street to block OW. MB wasn't afraid...remember a friend said he MB used his size to his advantage.
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He dropped in the middle of the street too.
:???: Does anyone else think this is very significant?
He was running away, allegedly, scared of the big bad cop that had just grabbed him and tried to pull into the SUV.
He doesn't run towards a door for help???
Didn't duck behind the bush seen on his left in the crime scene photos???
No darting in the grass?
He stayed in the "MIDDLE OF THE STREET"! why?

All posts are MOO
 
IMO it is important to remember that minutes eearlier he had committed a felony
I would think it somewhat logical that he instantly thought LE was addressing him becasue he just committed a crime, he had the evidence in his hand. IMO that would influcence MB response ( fear?)

So it seems likely that Michael did not roll out a red carpet!!

If I was running Ferguson I would have a flyer made outling the process clearly and consisely. In my expericce that disenfranchised have a wildly different expericne with the legal system. They are familiar with it being reativly quick ..Ya take the plea (no other choice a public defendant does not have the time to take a robbery to trial - its just the way it is .

I vote in like 2 weeks stuff is gonna start to simmer again because the tedious of the system as it churns along like a snail can be precieved , once again, the the system, is not really trying to figure out what ocurred.

If you look at the chants " arrest him now" indicate a radically different notion than "charge him now" .

in anything previous expericnes influence current beliefs and IMO this is gonna be a huge problem. There throwing it to the G/J which they know means nothing is just a stall tactic that IMO is gonna backfire big time - now not only is the white police againist us so are the white judges, lawyers etc etc
 
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