General Discussion Thread #4

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I actually would find it strange if there was no blood on the door knob. He must have had blood on his hands when opened that door if he had pulled Reeva out the loo??

I agree, that after "battling" (OP's words) to get Reeva out of the toilet & into the bathroom, OP would have had blood on his hands (which would have been transferred to anything he touched, including the door knob).
 
MURDERER_SERVANT, This is response to your last post on the previous thread.

Could you provide a few links to reports that blood was found in many places around the house? I have never seen one, although I know those reports have been discussed here. Thanks!

I'm sure I read some reports/news mentioning that.. but could only find the
below now..

''Police yesterday sealed off the house, which sources described as a bloodbath. A policeman said there was blood everywhere, in several rooms.''

http://www.dispatch.co.za/oscars-bloody-valentine/
 
Yep, I think the testimony of the ex, Sam Taylor is going to be very telling. I'm not sure if CTM will take the stand as I believe they reached some kind of settlement with their case and I'm sure the conditions would be confidentiality?? Could she be forced to take the stand??

If CTM has settled with OP (I've read media reports that OP & legal team have reached a "confidential settlement agreement" with her), then I doubt she'll testify @ his trial (if this case goes to trial) regarding his current charges. I don't know if she can be legally compelled to testify, since I'm not an expert on civil or criminal law, let alone on SA civil or criminal law. It would certainly be informative to know, wouldn't it?

Regarding ST: after it was reported in the media that she was "prepared to reveal what (Pistorius) made me go through", she retracted her statement on the advice of her attorney (according to what I've read & has been linked/discussed in the previous threads).

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-15-...on-haunt-oscar-pistorius-social-relationships

Based on my experience years ago as a DV victim's advocate, I can't help but see a pattern of escalating violence against the women OP has known and/or been involved with recently.

The most recent woman he was involved with - Reeva Steenkamp - is dead at his own hands.
 
http://www.news24.com/SouthAfrica/News/Pistorius-clan-unhappy-with-talk-about-Reeva-20130411




I find this allegation false.

Their relationship was too new for OP's family to claim she was an intimate member.

And he never met her family. I say this was a very early relationship with no connections.

IMO

I don't believe the claim that Reeva was an "intimate member of the Pistorius family", either.

After only 9 weeks of dating? GMAB

No one is an "intimate member" of anyone's family after only a few weeks of dating, and any family who would claim such a thing (whether via a spokesperson or directly) has some serious boundary issues, IMO.

But it all sounds so romantic, doesn't it? Not!

Red Flag-Red Flag-Red Flag - if that's how the 'family' or OP felt after just a few weeks.

Intimacy is something that develops over the course of time, after shared experiences, after getting to know one another, after gaining one another's trust. It's not something that happens over such a short period of time (at least not for folks who have healthy boundaries).

The more OP's family and/or spokespeople talk (whomever the current spokesperson of the moment may be, because the spokesperson seems to change on a regular basis), the more I hear blah blah blah blah blah.
 
excerpted quote
I also think alot of people are forgetting that Botha stated, under oath, that there was nothing to contradict OP version of events ( at that date of bail hearing)
But Botha also pointed out there *was* something to contradict OP's version of events: the downward trajectory of the bullets, indicating the prosthetics were on as the shots were fired. Under oath does not imply competence, or logical coherence.
 
I don't believe the claim that Reeva was an "intimate member of the Pistorius family", either.

After only 9 weeks of dating?
~snipped~

I agree with you and everyone else about this. Nine weeks to become part of the family? I don't think so. She was still in the very early stages of her relationship with OP. How many times would she have had to meet the family to become that close to them? I haven't read any information about her visiting the family regularly, and I certainly haven't heard her family or friends claiming she'd become close to the family.

It seems to me that this is just another calculated attempt to make the relationship seem more involved and serious than it really was. Maybe the family think it looks better for OP if they can convince people that the relationship had progressed to the point that Reeva was a close and loved 'family' member. However, I see it as another cynical move on their part to manipulate public opinion and get more sympathy.

Nine weeks is long enough for OP to have become obsessed with Reeva, and I doubt that obsession would have left much time for Reeva to become part of the family. I still think he was wound up about the coffee with her ex and it was on his mind that night. Maybe that's why he didn't have a gift for her, or maybe he did have one, and then decided not to give it her once they started arguing?
 
excerpted quote
But Botha also pointed out there *was* something to contradict OP's version of events: the downward trajectory of the bullets, indicating the prosthetics were on as the shots were fired. Under oath does not imply competence, or logical coherence.
Yes. That's why I was surprised when it was later decided that it was irrelevant whether he had his legs on or not at the time of the shooting.
 
Thanks, Nats,

I'm still trying to find out. Although my dogs are small, I rely upon them to alert me to trouble. They are going nuts.

But it may just be the LAPD doing their thing, so to speak ...

Harumph ..


To those who asked: The LAPD said they were trying to apprehend a murder suspect. They said the murder did not happen here and the suspect did not live in the neighborhood.

I ended up falling asleep so I don't even know how it ended.

:facepalm:
 
If CTM has settled with OP (I've read media reports that OP & legal team have reached a "confidential settlement agreement" with her), then I doubt she'll testify @ his trial (if this case goes to trial) regarding his current charges.

Regarding ST: after it was reported in the media that she was "prepared to reveal what (Pistorius) made me go through", she retracted her statement on the advice of her attorney (according to what I've read & has been linked/discussed in the previous threads).

http://mg.co.za/article/2013-02-15-...on-haunt-oscar-pistorius-social-relationships

BBM 1: I am reading the book "Pieces of the Puzzle: A Guide to the Oscar and Reeva Case" by Laurie A Claase, it just came out on Kindle only, I believe. They state in that book that OP dropped the CTM case. I'm new to reading a book this way and don't see how to find sources within the book. I'm not very far into the book yet, but so far it is very objectivly laying out the known facts.

BBM 2: I have read about that statement by ST in two different contexts: one that she said it months ago, another that she said it after Reeva's murder. I would like to know which is correct; not sure how to verify that.
 
BBM 1: I am reading the book "Pieces of the Puzzle: A Guide to the Oscar and Reeva Case" by Laurie A Claase, it just came out on Kindle only, I believe. They state in that book that OP dropped the CTM case. I'm new to reading a book this way and don't see how to find sources within the book. I'm not very far into the book yet, but so far it is very objectivly laying out the known facts.

BBM 2: I have read about that statement by ST in two different contexts: one that she said it months ago, another that she said it after Reeva's murder. I would like to know which is correct; not sure how to verify that.

Here's what I've found regarding the CTM case (I have no idea how accurate or trustworthy the reporting in the Mirror is):

But his lawyer Gary Pritchard told Agence France-Presse that he is holding "confidential" talks to settle out of court.

He said: "There are confidential settlement negotiations under way. We are trying to settle outside of court."


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-embroiled-legal-battle-1737657

The above linked article is dated March 1, 2013.
 
In the absence of news on this case, I happened upon this 7 minutes clip:

The Fast Times of Oscar Pistorius: Valentine's Day - YouTube

I know you all have seen it before, but it was interesting to see the early stuff again. It says the case may revolve around the cell phones in the bathroom.

I really like this series of videos. There are 5 parts, and each one is chock-full of info.

The prosecution raises a valid point: why were there 2 cell phones on/near the bath mat (one of which was spattered with blood), if Reeva had simply gotten up in the middle of the night to use the toilet for its intended purpose?

IMO, it points to a scenario in which she fled to the toilet in terror, cell phone in hand with the intention of calling for help. I envision a struggle in which she dropped her phone before she was able to make a call for help, but was still able to lock herself in the toilet, with an enraged OP on the other side of the door.
 
I really like this series of videos. There are 5 parts, and each one is chock-full of info.

The prosecution raises a valid point: why were there 2 cell phones on/near the bath mat (one of which was spattered with blood), if Reeva had simply gotten up in the middle of the night to use the toilet for its intended purpose?

IMO, it points to a scenario in which she fled to the toilet in terror, cell phone in hand with the intention of calling for help. I envision a struggle in which she dropped her phone before she was able to make a call for help, but was still able to lock herself in the toilet, with an enraged OP on the other side of the door.

Thank you, SS ...

I believe the videos are from the Dateline special which I had to watch online. I like Dan Abrams a lot.

Since we're a few months along, it's refreshing how law enforcement has been very adamant that the case is strong. It assures me that justice will be served for Reeva.

We have to remember that OP tailored his affidavit to fit the scene. But I believe the prosecution will be unveiling compelling evidence. I see it and hear it in the voices on this video of those who know the inside story.
 
Yes. That's why I was surprised when it was later decided that it was irrelevant whether he had his legs on or not at the time of the shooting.

I was thinking about that.. This may imply two things IMO;

1- OP knew who was inside when he was firing shots but then how ? depending on which evidence can that be ?

2- Reeva was shot elsewhere and they had the proofs.
 
Let me thank whoever found and posted this link.
http://www.dispatch.co.za/oscars-bloody-valentine/

Oscar’s bloody Valentine
"...Police yesterday sealed off the house, which sources described as a bloodbath. A policeman said there was blood everywhere, in several rooms...."

I have speculated on what would have made Botha state--after leaving the cops--that he knew immediately that there was only one way it could have happened. The "one way" is an extremely strong statement—as is the “immediately”. And of course it is in stark contradistinction to what he said in court that OP's affi also fits the evidence. I think once no longer controlled, those later statements are more likely to be true as he is no longer part of the Pros trying to force the DT to get married to all sorts of claims.

But what could the "several rooms" mean? I speculated from the outset that one thing Botha might have had in mind was blood where it could not be in OP’s affi claims. This could include the bedroom, and other places. This—if true— also ties in with those various early printed reports of cricket bat or shot in the hip in the bedroom.

Of course earlier reports are unconfirmed. Everything alas is unconfirmed until all forensics and autopsy are divulged at trial.

Things claimed by the DT are also unconfirmed. There appears to be no proof yet of the medical patch on OP’s shoulder.

But to play Devil's advocate, several rooms could still fit OP's affi as the bathroom, the stairs, the living room after she passed can be construed as several rooms.

So perhaps back to square one with nothing absolutely definitive still.
 
excerpted quote
But Botha also pointed out there *was* something to contradict OP's version of events: the downward trajectory of the bullets, indicating the prosthetics were on as the shots were fired. Under oath does not imply competence, or logical coherence.
yes I know, that's why I added in my original post "at that time and more would have come to light by now" (The results of ballistics was not even finalized at that stage). But at first glance, according to Botha, there were no inconsistencies...she was not shot anywhere else in the house but the loo, she was not beaten with a cricket bat and Botha conceded that the story was plausible.... Hence him telling the family he didn't foresee bail being denied...what he may have believed happened in the house is not really relevant if there was no evidence to back it up. and I've made no secret of my opinion that Botha was totally out of his league to take the stand and totally incompetent in the way he handled the scene. I hope I am making sense :)
 
New article (April 12) from Beeld, the Afrikaaner language paper in SA.
Used Google for translation—it’s free so can’t complain, but…

Article indicates that SA teachers are now telling students that the OP case shows that heroes should not be unconditionally idolized or such.

Translation: http://translate.google.com/transla...r-wys-nou-dat-ook-rolmodelle-fouteer-20130412

Original: http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Lemnaeler-wys-nou-dat-ook-rolmodelle-fouteer-20130412

Maybe Carol can give a real translation?
 
New article (April 12) from Beeld, the Afrikaaner language paper in SA.
Used Google for translation—it’s free so can’t complain, but…

Article indicates that SA teachers are now telling students that the OP case shows that heroes should not be unconditionally idolized or such.

Translation: http://translate.google.com/transla...r-wys-nou-dat-ook-rolmodelle-fouteer-20130412

Original: http://www.beeld.com/Suid-Afrika/Nuus/Lemnaeler-wys-nou-dat-ook-rolmodelle-fouteer-20130412

Maybe Carol can give a real translation?
My Afrikaans is not the best but this is my interpretation of the article:

Many teachers struggle over how the theme of sports heroes in the school curriculum should be addressed after the athlete, Oscar Pistorius shot his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp in February at his home in Pretoria. He was, before the tragedy, often portrayed as a role model in school tasks, assignments and discussion in the classroom. Ted Townsend, spokesman for the South African Teachers Union (SAOU), said teachers should be responsible and professional with the case, or go to heads of department for guidance where necessary. According to him, the curriculum is not as narrowly prescriptive that teachers do not have other sports heroes to use as examples , especially where younger pupils are involved and a discussion of the events could be potentially traumatic for them. "Given the media coverage the case has so far received, it will not be possible to focus on sports heroes without the shooting also coming into play. "Teachers need to handle the case sensitively. Pistorius's case, we see violence that ended in death. Teachers should ask themselves what values they carry him as a sports hero . " Prof. Elda de Waal, education expert from the North-West University (NWU), said teachers should not avoid the topic. "This is a golden opportunity to debate among pupils and stimulate the message that no role model ever has 100% integrity and that all people, one time or another, make mistakes and that there are lessons to learn from this. "
 
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