The Death Penalty and Canada

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
KDOGG said:
IMHO the death penalty is no punishment really. so u kill the criminal? he suffers a few seconds, then hes dead. he gets off way to easy w/ the death penalty. now LWOP.....solitary confinement....thats REAL punishment if u ask me. mix in a daily dose of some sort of torture & that would be even better IMO!
Click to expand...

ITA re death penalty and the concept of penalty.
 
redheadedgal said:
it actually costs more to put someone to death (lawyers, appeals, etc) than to incarcerate for life...

here are some US stats: http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty
Click to expand...

I don't think that is accounting for the costs of building the facilities though. Canadian prisons are VASTLY over crowded. At least where I am. People are sleeping on floors. Regardless of cost, I am still in favor of putting to death those who have grossly disregarded human life, over and over again. They space they occupy and the resources they drain could be better used for someone else. Perhaps if our prisons weren't so over crowded there would be more hope of rehabilitating those who have some potential.

I have seen the evil of these men face to face. Knowing they are alive and breathing makes me want to vomit. I think we will have to agree to disagree on this one.
 
Any kind of serious punishment does act as a detriment to crime - for the average person (imo). The idea of consequences for most adults is very real.

For the person who's going to commit the crime anyway - I can't see how a death penalty would be a detriment. Hasn't worked so far, ever, in all of history. Neither has life imprisonment.

I separate the "detriment" from the issue and come up with the reality that when we, as a society, seek to kill another person, we contradict our own laws.

I'm very glad that Canada doesn't have the death penalty. But agree with many posters that appropriate punishment for murder (violent murder in particular) and many other crimes here is too lax.
 
STANDREID said:
I know Canada will not normally extradite a person who is eligible for the death penalty but they did in the case of Charles Ng.
Click to expand...

I'm sure there is some wiggle room in the extradition laws.

but there is no comparison here.

Ng was an illegal immigrant who committed crimes on Canadian soil, was charged, convicted and sentenced here and served time. After his time is served - it's standard procedure to send him home. Had he come here as a refugee, fleeing the dealth penalty in the US - it might have turned out differently.

Magnotta is a Canadian citizen who committed a crime in Canada. It has no connection to China (except that his victim was from there - but was in Canada at the time).

China has no reason to charge him, no evidence to try him with and no claim to any extradition treaty.
 
Even if the death penalty was re-introduced to Canada, it would not apply to Magnotta because has been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Canada recognizes that mentally ill people are not responsible for their actions.
 
otto said:
Even if the death penalty was re-introduced to Canada, it would not apply to Magnotta because has been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic. Canada recognizes that mentally ill people are not responsible for their actions.
Click to expand...

That's not really accurate.

Canada recognizes situations when mentally ill people are not responsible for their actions and can order permanent or temporary confinement based on whether the person is a danger to society - but that's not every situation.

Not all mentally ill people are deemed "ncr". Mental illness, in itself, doesn't excuse criminal activity. Mentally ill people can be sentenced to prison, so long as they have access to treatment while in prison. Their illness may or may not mitigate their sentence.

With Schizophrenia (a biological disease that manifests itself as mental impairment) - NCR is only relevant when a person commits a crime during a break with reality and because of that break with reality.

Even then, they can be deemed dangerous to society and sentenced to a medical facility - indefinitely.

The Canadian justice system is not permitted to knowingly release a dangerous person back into society - ever.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-561-m/2009016/section-a-eng.htm
"Courts and Review Boards

Available Canadian studies on the criminal courts tend to focus on fitness hearings and cases involving individuals not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder, rather than the number of individuals with symptoms of mental illness who have appeared in criminal courts. As indicated earlier, not all individuals with mental illness would be found unfit to stand trial or not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder." (source link above)
 
Katie-L said:
That's not really accurate.

Canada recognizes situations when mentally ill people are not responsible for their actions and can order permanent or temporary confinement based on whether the person is a danger to society - but that's not every situation.

Not all mentally ill people are deemed "ncr". Mental illness, in itself, doesn't excuse criminal activity. Mentally ill people can be sentenced to prison, so long as they have access to treatment while in prison. Their illness may or may not mitigate their sentence.

With Schizophrenia (a biological disease that manifests itself as mental impairment) - NCR is only relevant when a person commits a crime during a break with reality and because of that break with reality.

Even then, they can be deemed dangerous to society and sentenced to a medical facility - indefinitely.

The Canadian justice system is not permitted to knowingly release a dangerous person back into society - ever.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/pub/85-561-m/2009016/section-a-eng.htm
"Courts and Review Boards

Available Canadian studies on the criminal courts tend to focus on fitness hearings and cases involving individuals not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder, rather than the number of individuals with symptoms of mental illness who have appeared in criminal courts. As indicated earlier, not all individuals with mental illness would be found unfit to stand trial or not criminally responsible on account of mental disorder." (source link above)
Click to expand...

Below are examples of how mental illness is treated in the Canadian justice system. Mental illness is taken seriously, and someone with mental illness is routinely considered not responsible for their actions. Paranoid schizophrenia is far more serious than depression, so advocating the death sentence because a schizophrenic committed a very bizarre murder seems pointless.

"McConnell remains at Alberta Hospital ... McConnell, 34, was convicted last year of manslaughter in the drowning deaths of her two young sons, 10-month-old Jayden and Connor, 2-1/2, in their Millet home sometime between Friday, Jan. 29 and Monday, Feb. 1, 2010. The children’s bodies were found inside the home by their father after Allyson McConnell jumped off an Edmonton overpass in an apparent suicide attempt.

She was convicted of manslaughter after a trial last year, where Justice Michelle Crighton concluded the depressed mother may not have had the requisite level of intent for murder.

McConnell was sentenced to six years on each manslaughter charge, with the sentences running concurrently. The prison term was reduced to a 15-month jail sentence, given the time McConnell had already spent at Alberta Hospital after her arrest."

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/killed+sons+face+immigration+board/8196883/story.html


"Greyhound bus killer Vince Li is now allowed to go on short, escorted outings from the Manitoba mental hospital where he has been committed.

Li, who has schizophrenia, was sent to the Selkirk Mental Health Centre after being found not criminally responsible of beheading Tim McLean, 22, a fellow passenger on a Greyhound bus near Portage La Prairie, Man., in July 2008."

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/05/17/vince-li-greyhound-bus-killer_n_1525555.html
 
LadyL said:
it's state-sanctioned murder IMO

if it's abhorrent & illegal for the population to do it, why is it then ok for the government to do it?

I think Bernardo, Williams, Rafferty and a whole host of others deserve to die by firing squad but I'm not willing to give my government free reign to make that decision

especially when I consider the innocent people who have been convicted of murder - Guy Paul Morin is one such case
Click to expand...

I love your post.
 
otto said:
Below are examples of how mental illness is treated in the Canadian justice system. Mental illness is taken seriously, and someone with mental illness is routinely considered not responsible for their actions. Paranoid schizophrenia is far more serious than depression, so advocating the death sentence because a schizophrenic committed a very bizarre murder seems pointless......
Click to expand...


I never have - and never will advocate for a death sentence (for anyone).

My responses were mainly to an earlier poster who wondered if Magnotta was "faking it" (which simply can't be done with schizophrenia) and if that means he can be released.

I believe we are quite in agreement that cases where a defendant really wasn't criminally responsible - the justice system holds them ncr.

Doesn't appear that this will be the case with Magnotta - as the trial is proceeding on a 1st degree murder charge.

With Li - his case did not proceed. He was treated (though he wanted to die when he was being treated after realizing what he had done). Li is able to leave the facility he's in from time to time with supervision because, on medication, he's not deemed a danger or risk to anyone.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Escambia County John Doe (1989)?

Staff online

Members online

... and 115 more.
Total: 2,819 (members: 116, guests: 2,703)

Online statistics

Members online
116
Guests online
2,703
Total visitors
2,819
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
592,198
Messages
17,964,896
Members
228,713
Latest member
hannahdunnam
Back
Top