Ramsey Project Rebuttal (Non Intruder Posters Only)

Yes, Ms. Aphrodite Jones...the DNA under JonBenet's fingernails mean nothing.

JonBenet last bathed Christmas Eve. On that day/evening...

JonBenet spent a few hours at her little friend Megan Kostanic's home.
JonBenet went to Church.
JonBenet went to eat at Pasta Jays.
JonBenet went to the White home.

JonBenet awoke Christmas Day. On that day/evening...

JonBenet opened her Christmas presents.
JonBenet helped John make pancakes?
JonBenet ate breakfast.
JonBenet changed from her pajamas into her play clothes.
JonBenet played outside with friends.
JonBenet played with her jewelry-making gift.
JonBenet rode her bicycle outside the patio area.
JonBenet took off her playclothes and dressed herself in her Gap outfit.
JonBenet had dinner at the Whites.
JonBenet played with the White children and Fleet and Dad.
JonBenet fell asleep in the car on her way home.
JonBenet ate pineapple before being murdered.

How much foreign DNA could JonBenet have picked up?
 
It's not the first case where there was strangulation and then a head bash as overkill....and even a sexual assault with an object. One in particular was a serial child killer in Europe (forget the country). Roy Hazelwood worked on the case and was able to link the deaths by the MO. The perps that were caught, when asked about the overkill said something the victim did made them angry...or that was their rationale.

The strangulation came first---there were scratch marks on JBR's neck and her eyes had evidence of strangulation......and there looks like two separate rings around her neck. It could have been done slowly. Wecht might have the head bash right---I believe his son is a neurosurgeon. There was only a couple tablespoons of blood in her brain, and no blood outside the large gash. She was probably dead or close to dying when the bash occurred.
 
It's not the first case where there was strangulation and then a head bash as overkill....and even a sexual assault with an object. One in particular was a serial child killer in Europe (forget the country). Roy Hazelwood worked on the case and was able to link the deaths by the MO. The perps that were caught, when asked about the overkill said something the victim did made them angry...or that was their rationale.

The strangulation came first---there were scratch marks on JBR's neck and her eyes had evidence of strangulation......and there looks like two separate rings around her neck. It could have been done slowly. Wecht might have the head bash right---I believe his son is a neurosurgeon. There was only a couple tablespoons of blood in her brain, and no blood outside the large gash. She was probably dead or close to dying when the bash occurred.

There were NO scratch marks on her neck. Those marks were petechial hemorrhages. The coroner did NOT note any scratches on her neck. There was NONE of her own blood or tissue under her nails.
 
It's not the first case where there was strangulation and then a head bash as overkill....and even a sexual assault with an object. One in particular was a serial child killer in Europe (forget the country). Roy Hazelwood worked on the case and was able to link the deaths by the MO. The perps that were caught, when asked about the overkill said something the victim did made them angry...or that was their rationale.

The strangulation came first---there were scratch marks on JBR's neck and her eyes had evidence of strangulation......and there looks like two separate rings around her neck. It could have been done slowly. Wecht might have the head bash right---I believe his son is a neurosurgeon. There was only a couple tablespoons of blood in her brain, and no blood outside the large gash. She was probably dead or close to dying when the bash occurred.

The word "gash" infers her scalp was opened by the head bash. It was not. Her skull was opened by the bash but there was no bleeding or obvious signs of trauma to her head.
 
  • The name of Michael Helgoth was brought up in the documentary.
Generally, the Ramsey spin regarding Helgoth goes something like this:
There is a mysterious footprint in the wine cellar near where JonBenet’s body was found and this print was made by Hi-Tec footwear.
No mention is made of the fact that Burke Ramsey did own at least one pair of Hi-Tec’s.
Mention is made of Michael Helgoth, from whom a pair of Hi-Tec boots was stolen by a so called friend, (John Edward Kenady,) and eventually turned over to the BPD.
Usually, it’s also noted that he committed suicide a day after Alex Hunter announced that, "The list of suspects narrows. Soon there will be no one on the list but you."
Mention is not made of the fact that friends and family of Michael Helgoth believe he committed suicide because his girlfriend broke up with him. (The day that he committed suicide was Valentine’s Day.)

The cornerstone of the case against Helgoth as depicted by Team Ramsey is definitely the Hi-Tec footprint, and below we see that the boots were tested by CBI. The tests revealed that Helgoth’s boots did not match the footprint in the wine cellar.

Ramseys give police Hi-Tec boots.
Among information John and Patsy Ramsey provided to police this month are a pair of Hi-Tec boots obtained by one of the couple's private investigators.
Colorado Springs private detective Ollie Gray said Wednesday he believes the size 8½ leather and nylon boots could be the ones that JonBenét's killer wore inside the Ramsey home where the little girl was found dead.
Gray, who was present during police questioning of the Ramseys this week, said he turned the boots over to police on Aug. 4. He said police asked him questions about the boots in the interviews. Gray said he wants police to compare the soles of the boots to the footprint at the crime scene.
"There is a good possibility they could match," Gray said.
Boulder Police Chief Mark Beckner said he ordered the boots to be analyzed at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation lab.
"If you look at them, they look pretty close," he said. "You really can't tell."
But Beckner said he is waiting for the lab results before he gets too excited about the possible lead.
"We've had other boots that looked like they matched as well," he said. The footprint remains one of the mysteries of the unsolved December 1996 beating and strangulation death of JonBenét Ramsey.
Police found a partial footprint with the words "Hi Tec" in the basement of the Ramsey home.
Police cannot say whom it belongs to or when it was left. The Ramseys did not own a similar shoe.
Some say the footprint could have been left behind by a construction worker or plumber when the house was under renovation, or inadvertently by a police officer who worked the crime scene. Others, including the Ramseys, have said they believe it could have been from an intruder who killed their daughter.
Gray said he obtained the boots in the Boulder area in about mid- to late July "in the course of the investigation."
He said they belong to an individual, whom he would not identify publicly because he said he doesn't want the person to be labeled a suspect until the lead has been investigated. But he said he did give police the full information about where and how he obtained the boots.
"We don't have the slightest idea of what they have done with it," Gray said.
In fact, Gray said, the Ramseys have provided police with several pages of reports and possible leads for them to follow up, including information given to them in May. Gray said he evaluates the information first so he doesn't hand over "superfluous" information.
But he said police never give him feedback on what they have done with the information he provides them.
Beckner said he shares general information with the Ramseys' private investigators from time to time, but never specifics about evidence.
"We don't share case information with them because they work for people under suspicion who could be involved in this crime," Beckner said.
…
By Christopher Anderson, Daily Camera Staff Writer, August 31, 2000


Boots not connected to Ramsey case.
A pair of Hi-Tec boots given to Boulder police in August are not connected to the unsolved 1996 JonBenét Ramsey case, Chief Mark Beckner said Monday.
A private investigator for the girl's parents, John and Patsy Ramsey, gave the boots to police in August believing they could match a partial Hi-Tec footprint found on a basement floor next to 6-year-old JonBenét's beaten and strangled body.
Beckner ordered the boots to be tested at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation. The results came back about two weeks ago.
"The boots do not match," Beckner said Monday.
The chief also said DNA tests and interviews with friends and family of the man who owned the boots led police to conclude the man was not involved in the little girl's mysterious killing.
"There is nothing that ties this guy into the case," Beckner said.
Ollie Gray, the private investigator who gave the boots to police, said he discussed the test results with Beckner but is not convinced.
Gray said Beckner did not give him specifics about how the boots were compared to the partial print, what tests were run or who police interviewed.
"What did they do with the hairs and fiber that were in the boots? Did they compare them?" Gray asked. "I am just not satisfied with what Beckner said."
Police have repeatedly said they are limited in how much information about the investigation can be released.
The boots tested at CBI originally belonged to a Boulder County man who committed suicide Feb. 14, 1997, the day after District Attorney Alex Hunter declared at a press conference that investigators were narrowing the list of suspects in the Ramsey case.
Gray believes the stress of a possible arrest may have caused JonBenét's killer to commit suicide. In July, John Edward Kenady, 47, a friend of the dead man, gave the boots to Gray, saying he suspected his friend may have been involved in the killing. Kenady is facing theft and burglary charges relating to other items found in his possession that belonged to his former friend.
On Dec. 26, 1996, JonBenét Ramsey's slain body was found in the basement of her family's home. Her parents remain under police suspicion. Hunter signed an affidavit last month for the Ramseys' attorney stating that JonBenét's brother, Burke, was never a suspect in the case.
The Ramseys have repeatedly denied any involvement in their daughter's death and believe an intruder killed the young girl.
They point to the unexplained partial Hi-Tec boot print as possible proof of an intruder. Others have said the partial print could have been left behind by a law enforcement officer or someone else working on the crime scene that day.
By Christopher Anderson, Daily Camera Staff Writer, November 21, 2000
 
Colorado Springs private detective Ollie Gray said Wednesday he believes the size 8½ leather and nylon boots could be the ones that JonBenét's killer wore inside the Ramsey home where the little girl was found dead.

8 1/2 is rather small, no?
 
8 1/2 is rather small, no?



We all know what small shoes mean :crazy: small feet of course.


All kidding aside, I havent heard anything about shoe size, but I would agree with you H, 8 1/2 is small.
 
WOW This thread is ROCKIN'. Thanks to the wonderful Websleuth members.

I had emergency gallbladder surgery so I'm on the mend. The Ramsey curse did not kill. Felt like it was going to but didn't.

In the next few days I'll get caught up and then we will get this project moving.

JonBenetRamsey.org is a domain name I own. I would like to put all this info in one place and I'll probably use this domain to make it happen.

This is just a little thing but it has always bothered me. Why didn't the Ramseys ever guy the JonBenet domains?

JonBenetRamsey.org was just out there for years and I picked it up. Not sure who owns Jonbenet.org,.com. or .net but I know it's not the Ramseys.

Again, very small but one of the million things that have nagged me about these people forever.
 
Tricia, my prayers are with you for a speedy recovery! So glad you had the surgery because, believe it or not, not having the surgery is deadly!
As for the Ramseys not buying the other JonBenet domains, I think it's pretty simple. Television provided them all the vehicle they needed to promote their spin AND paid them good money to boot. No need for them to spend their money at all.
 
In my letter to Ms. Jones I inadvertently sent out broken links. The links have been fixed and I have sent her the updated and corrected links.

Just fyi.
 
Tricia, my prayers are with you for a speedy recovery! So glad you had the surgery because, believe it or not, not having the surgery is deadly!
As for the Ramseys not buying the other JonBenet domains, I think it's pretty simple. Television provided them all the vehicle they needed to promote their spin AND paid them good money to boot. No need for them to spend their money at all.

Are you referring to being paid for interviews? I've always heard that TV shows don't pay for interviews, because of the free publicity the interview provides.

However, I came across this statement from an old article about the Ramseys' interview on 20/20 in 2000:

The parents of murdered 6-year-old JonBenet chose Ms. Walters over such heavy hitters as ABC's Diane Sawyer, CBS's Dan Rather and NBC's Katie Couric and Ann Curry for their first in-depth interview since JonBenet 's death in December 1996.

Now, the 20/20 episode brought in 20 million viewers and it was the highest-rated episode in three years, so I can see why all the networks wanted John and Patsy to come on their show. Now, if they're all competing against each other, was there some kind of under-the-table offer going on? How did Walters "win" over the others?
 
WOW This thread is ROCKIN'. Thanks to the wonderful Websleuth members.

I had emergency gallbladder surgery so I'm on the mend. The Ramsey curse did not kill. Felt like it was going to but didn't.

In the next few days I'll get caught up and then we will get this project moving.

JonBenetRamsey.org is a domain name I own. I would like to put all this info in one place and I'll probably use this domain to make it happen.

This is just a little thing but it has always bothered me. Why didn't the Ramseys ever guy the JonBenet domains?

JonBenetRamsey.org was just out there for years and I picked it up. Not sure who owns Jonbenet.org,.com. or .net but I know it's not the Ramseys.

Again, very small but one of the million things that have nagged me about these people forever.

Hope you aren't in too much pain Tricia. I had my gallbladder taken out in 1984...when the Surgeons would cut into you about ten inches. The gallstones were extremely painful, and the attacks were horrendous. I had my surgery and the surgeon found a couple of stones in my small intestine. I am happy you got the surgery and please..no heavy lifting.
 
Are you referring to being paid for interviews? I've always heard that TV shows don't pay for interviews, because of the free publicity the interview provides.

However, I came across this statement from an old article about the Ramseys' interview on 20/20 in 2000:



Now, the 20/20 episode brought in 20 million viewers and it was the highest-rated episode in three years, so I can see why all the networks wanted John and Patsy to come on their show. Now, if they're all competing against each other, was there some kind of under-the-table offer going on? How did Walters "win" over the others?

Eileen, it's widely known in the industry that most ethical networks don't pay for the interviews; however, the extras that go along with the interview bring in a great deal of money. By extras I mean photos and home movies. Every interview with the Ramseys brought out new photos and videos. If you have studied Casey Anthony's case at all you know that she made somewhere around $250,000 for photos of Caylee. Since Colorado does not have Sunshine Laws like Florida we don't know what the Ramseys may have earned from JonBenet's photos but considering the hundreds of photos and film that we have seen on tv and the internet, you can bet that they were well compensated!

ETA: It's my opinion that the Ramseys probably chose Barbara Walters because of her credibility and the fact that she would reach more viewers. After all, they had an agenda and that was to convince the world that they were innocent.
 
Re: the small 8 1/2 shoeprint. Most boys of BR's age would wear a men's shoe, not a child''s size any more. So and 8 1/2 might "fit" the bill. Boys can have big feet compared to the rest of them- they seem to "grow" into them.

Re: payment for "interviews"- while most legitimate news organizations would not offer payment, the tabloids and tabloid-type TV shows certainly would and do. If not outright cash, they offer lavish hotel stays and expenses, or other things in exchange for the interview. They would take the view that it is OK to pay for the interviewee's time, not that they are paying for what is said. But that is a very blurry line. I think it is very possible that "sensational" testimony would be "rewarded" in some way. I've seen cases where someone has said they "sold their story" to a tabloid because they needed the money and the publication offered X $$$ for their story.
 
Eileen, it's widely known in the industry that most ethical networks don't pay for the interviews; however, the extras that go along with the interview bring in a great deal of money. By extras I mean photos and home movies. Every interview with the Ramseys brought out new photos and videos. If you have studied Casey Anthony's case at all you know that she made somewhere around $250,000 for photos of Caylee. Since Colorado does not have Sunshine Laws like Florida we don't know what the Ramseys may have earned from JonBenet's photos but considering the hundreds of photos and film that we have seen on tv and the internet, you can bet that they were well compensated!

ETA: It's my opinion that the Ramseys probably chose Barbara Walters because of her credibility and the fact that she would reach more viewers. After all, they had an agenda and that was to convince the world that they were innocent.

All of JonBenet's pageant and photoshoot pictures were sold to a photo agency by the photographers who took them. The Ramseys didn't own those pictures or videos. When the media wants to use a pageant video of JonBenet, they have to pay the photo agency a licensing fee.

The pictures that the Ramseys provide of JonBenet during interviews/specials are normal non-pageant pictures of her, and that's why whenever you watch a show about the case and see new normal pictures of JBR, it will always thank the Ramseys at the end.
 
It's not the first case where there was strangulation and then a head bash as overkill....and even a sexual assault with an object.

I imagine that the particulars of those cases would be a fair sight different from this one.

The strangulation came first---there were scratch marks on JBR's neck and her eyes had evidence of strangulation......and there looks like two separate rings around her neck. It could have been done slowly. Wecht might have the head bash right---I believe his son is a neurosurgeon. There was only a couple tablespoons of blood in her brain, and no blood outside the large gash. She was probably dead or close to dying when the bash occurred.

There were no scratch marks, and several pahtologists have talked about the amount of blood in JB's head. Apparently, it was enough for at least two of them to use the word "clot." IDI would have a lot more credibility if they didn't just make things up out of thin air.
 
Remember this thread is not for "Intruder" theories. It's for work on the Aphrodite Jones rebuttal.
 
Here is what I need:

I need the exact quote that Aphrodite Jones used when she told the bit about Lacy exonerating the Ramseys. Exactly how it went down in the show. Please post it on this thread.

Cynic, when that is posted can you please post what Stan Garnett said on the Dan Caplis and Craig Silverman show concerning this topic?

Thank you.

This is how we are going to open the press release. With this bit of info.

Thanks everyone. On my end I am contacting people who have connections to Investigation Discovery. Trying to make sure our work is seen by the right people.

Tricia
 
Does anyone remember if Jones ever said she tried to contact Stan Garnett about the "exoneration" letter? Or for that matter did she try and contact him for anything to do with this show?

It's time. I must break down and watch the whole thing all the way through.

I will need an ambulance after I am through. It will make me so upset my gallbladder will grow back and attack me. I'll be right back in the hospital again.

Don't say I didn't warn you.
 
Does anyone remember if Jones ever said she tried to contact Stan Garnett about the "exoneration" letter? Or for that matter did she try and contact him for anything to do with this show?

It's time. I must break down and watch the whole thing all the way through.

I will need an ambulance after I am through. It will make me so upset my gallbladder will grow back and attack me. I'll be right back in the hospital again.

Don't say I didn't warn you.

I haven't been able to watch the whole thing yet either. :maddening: :sick: I have been wayching it in 10 minute intervals, seveal days apart, so my head doesn't explode;)
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
165
Guests online
2,371
Total visitors
2,536

Forum statistics

Threads
589,981
Messages
17,928,625
Members
228,029
Latest member
Truthseeker158
Back
Top