MS - Jessica Chambers, 19, found burned near her car, Panola County, 6 Dec 2014 - #8

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What evidence do people here believe could have been inside or outside of the burned out shell of her car that would be tossed out of court due to them not securing it or breaking chain of custody?

I would assume LE took samples inside and outside the car before they moved it to send to the lab to determine if an accelerant was used and which kind so no compromise there. Photos taken at the scene would document the condition of the vehicle and the position of the various objects inside the car and avoids the problem of chain of custody. What else is there to protect for trial?
 
I am not trying to be the 'devil's advocate' here and I certainly am not opposed to the 'agree to disagree' comments. However, when the latter leads to acrimony in our posts, therein lies a problem. As far as the handling of evidence is concerned, I feel that we should move along. The 'proof' is in the pudding' and that translates into the proceedings of a trial where this topic may or may not arise.
As far as Jessica's phone records are concerned, we have to hope that LE is able to ferret out clues. I also feel that obtaining records (texts & calls) for at least the week leading up to Jessica's horrible death, may provide important data. Perhaps we have a member here who resides within fairly close proximity to Courtland/Batesville who could tell us who the main service provider would be in that locale. I should have Googled this, I know! Lol! That sleuther would likely know about the keeping of records by this provider if he/she uses the same. I really don't think it's a matter of the condition of Jessica's phone but rather the availability of these records. All MOO.

"Police are searching her data and text records after obtaining warrants Wednesday that compelled Google and her cell phone provider to give police access to her phone's content, Champion said. Investigators believe her phone will be "the key to everything," the prosecutor said. She received a call before she left her house, he said."

BBM

Link to the above quote:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/11/us/mississippi-girl-burns-to-death/
 
SeriouslySearching said:
What evidence do people here believe could have been inside or outside of the burned out shell of her car that would be tossed out of court due to them not securing it or breaking chain of custody?

I would assume LE took samples inside and outside the car before they moved it to send to the lab to determine if an accelerant was used and which kind so no compromise there. Photos taken at the scene would document the condition of the vehicle and the position of the various objects inside the car and avoids the problem of chain of custody. What else is there to protect for trial?
Click to expand...

I would also assume that LE would properly secure the crime scene to secure the integrity of evidence, unfortunately, I would be wrong.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
What evidence do people here believe could have been inside or outside of the burned out shell of her car that would be tossed out of court due to them not securing it or breaking chain of custody?

I would assume LE took samples inside and outside the car before they moved it to send to the lab to determine if an accelerant was used and which kind so no compromise there. Photos taken at the scene would document the condition of the vehicle and the position of the various objects inside the car and avoids the problem of chain of custody. What else is there to protect for trial?
Click to expand...

I don't necessarily believe any evidence will be tossed out, but all a defense attorney has to do is plant one seed of reasonable doubt in one juror's head to get a hung jury in a trial, and I believe the handling of evidence is going to provide the defense many opportunities to plant that seed. Maybe an hour or so is long enough to process that crime scene, but if an attorney asks, "doesn't this seem like an awfully quick processing? Have you ever seen a relatively minor traffic accident take longer than that to process? Isn't it possible that in their haste to clear this scene, officers overlooked things that might point to an accident"? All you need is one juror to think, "hmm, maybe". The crime scene was finally secured and tape put up on Mon, Dec 9. Let's say some piece of evidence, her phone let's say, contains DNA or fingerprints of the person on trial, or any other piece of evidence found on the grounds after the very initial investigation (and it was reported in MSM that LE was seen a few days later picking item(s) up and placing them in a bag). Defense attorney asks, "When was crime scene secured? Isn't it true that until sometime on Dec 9, you, me, or anyone else could have gone and placed that item there or handled that item?" Again, you only have to convince one juror that the initial investigation was sloppy to start planting a seed of doubt. I could give more examples, but we have beaten this dead horse so badly, the glue factory wouldn't even want it. I do hope that the evidence will be enough to convict whoever did this to Jessica. I just fear a lot of it is gonna be hotly contested. JMO
 
SteveP said:
I don't necessarily believe any evidence will be tossed out, but all a defense attorney has to do is plant one seed of reasonable doubt in one juror's head to get a hung jury in a trial, and I believe the handling of evidence is going to provide the defense many opportunities to plant that seed. Maybe an hour or so is long enough to process that crime scene, but if an attorney asks, "doesn't this seem like an awfully quick processing? Have you ever seen a relatively minor traffic accident take longer than that to process? Isn't it possible that in their haste to clear this scene, officers overlooked things that might point to an accident"? All you need is one juror to think, "hmm, maybe". The crime scene was finally secured and tape put up on Mon, Dec 9. Let's say some piece of evidence, her phone let's say, contains DNA or fingerprints of the person on trial, or any other piece of evidence found on the grounds after the very initial investigation (and it was reported in MSM that LE was seen a few days later picking item(s) up and placing them in a bag). Defense attorney asks, "When was crime scene secured? Isn't it true that until sometime on Dec 9, you, me, or anyone else could have gone and placed that item there or handled that item?" Again, you only have to convince one juror that the initial investigation was sloppy to start planting a seed of doubt. I could give more examples, but we have beaten this dead horse so badly, the glue factory wouldn't even want it. I do hope that the evidence will be enough to convict whoever did this to Jessica. I just fear a lot of it is gonna be hotly contested. JMO
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Agreed!

I've said this before and I'll say it again, then I'll quit talking about it because IMO, it's not debatable.

How could LE clear the scene in an hour and in the dark? Sure they could have taken pictures with a flash and still collected evidence but not in that short of a time frame. And to secure the scene days later is bewildering to me.

LE should have been there until the next afternoon at the very least IMO and should have immediately secured the crime scene. Not three days later.

Why give a Defense any room to poke holes in the investigation?

I just don't feel they could have done a thorough initial investigation of the crime scene in such a short period of time. I think it's quite possible that they could have missed collecting key evidence right from the start.

It doesn't give me much confidence in the local LE and that they are equipped to handle this type of investigation.
 
I'll post about 30 links to car fire suicide articles at the top of the next thread. Most resulted in deaths; a few were attempts.
 
New1 said:
There's really no point in destroying the phone. The phone RECORDS will still be there if the phone were destroyed, the perp/s took it with them, threw it into a river, or whatever. No matter what was done to the physical phone, LE could still retrieve the data from records from the cell phone company. JMO
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Yep, any phone number dialed by Jessica would be directed and stored to the nearest cell phone tower via a 'ping'.
 
MSCJgrad said:
So true, ffj, so true. How much was in the fund that was disbursed to JC's folks? I was certain that they would throw every cent towards the reward... I don't recall ever reading anything after the JFJ page thanked everyone for donating, and confirmed the family had received the funds. Also, there are plenty of people out there who are rich beyond belief... Unfortunately this case hasn't been publicized by MSM enough to get anyone's attention. I sincerely wish that somebody with a great deal of experience in PR managing the families of victims of crime would step up, and represent JC here- go knocking on doors, seeking media coverage, seeking reward donations, seeking funds for a respectable private investigator, seeking justice. I feel that the right person getting involved with sincerity in their quest for justice, for answers, for Jessica; could change the game here, so to speak. It's the squeaky wheel that gets greased, IMO.[/QUOT

And that would be interferring in a LE investigation which would more than likely be a crime itself.
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imkeylime said:
Yes, it certainly seems plausible that talking would not only affect one's safety but even one's livelihood in such a situation. If that's the case, the monetary reward would need to be worth it ... and an added offer of protection would be even better, I suppose. It would be nice if doing the right thing was enough. :(

Also ... if the perp of this crime isn't part of the gang culture ... or even went against the gang culture with his/her personal vendetta against JC ... family and friends might also be nervous, as the crime has certainly put the focus on gangs in Courtland. I'm thinking of the quote from BC that the gangs are angry, too. IDK if that's the case, but if it is, it's a different angle.

I personally think that the person/people who killed JC has/have gang ties but operated as a lone wolf/long wolves due to some personal vendetta. It does seem like fear is driving the silence, but I'm not sure what's behind the fear, if that makes sense.
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What's behind the fear is a possibility that the same thing will happen to them (people speaking of what they know) that happened to JC.
 
Can we put a time on how long it takes to process a crime scene...Seems that would depend on many factors...How many on the investigative team, how large the crime scene area was, etc......On scene...Photos of the vehicle and surroundings, measurements and area around car searched and photoed. I would think the inside of the car could be more thoroughly processed at a secure site out of the elements that would risk erasure of dna and/or prints (rain comes to mind).

Classito
 
No one outside of LE knows what evidence they have or don't have, and the time investment needed at the crime scene is almost always based on what's actually there to be recovered.
I don't see how anyone can jump to the conclusion that any evidence has been mishandled, and that the whole case has been botched based on what has been gleaned from the media. Outside of LE....no one really knows anything.

I believe that most of that kind of thinking comes from prejudice about the region in which this crime occurred. Don't assume that the investigators have had no training or aren't that smart just because they work in rural Mississippi. All the references about country music and good ol' boys.....really not accurate. The actual problem is the same all over the US....a rise in crime and cuts in funding due to the lingering recession. That means less resources for LE and investigators who are stretched too thin,especially in poor rural communities.
 
This is my first time posting and I hope I don't post something that is not allowed

I normally don't follow this kind of stuff, but for some reason Jessica's story has really touched me. I have read friends and acquaintances of Jessica describe her as sweet, happy, always smiling, kind, someone who liked everyone and never judged people. I think she had a rough childhood, and it's sad that her life was taken before she could get out of that town, and I think those were her plans.

This case is so odd, reading about the town and the cast of characters that live there is like a Twilight Zone episode, only more strange.

I have thought about many of the same things people have posted here, and of course the thing that always stands out is the gas can person/people on the store camera. I just think the police would have found something by now if those people were involved.

I also wonder how people knew so quickly that she had lighter fluid poured down her throat. Have the police even confirmed this to be true?

I'm not going to bore everyone with all the thoughts I've had about this case, but I will mention one thing that I can't get out of my head. The names Jessica supposedly said before she passed away. I saw the interview with the man who said police came to his house because his name matched the name that Jessica mentioned. I saw the firefighter interview where he said that she did say something but he could not say what it was. The father also claims she named the killer. Has it been confirmed that she said any names?

I am going to assume she did say a name. Was the name clear though? Was it hard to understand her and that is why they are coming up with a couple of names that sound similar? Are they sure it was the name of the killer? Did she specifically say that was her killer? Could it have been a last name? It would actually make more sense that she would say a last name, because as we have seen just a first name makes it harder to know who it was she was referring to. She was a smart girl and I can picture her making sure she gave them a last name. If she didn't know the person's last name then that would be different.

I do have a theory as to what happened, and I also have been thinking that it is possible one of the people briefly interviewed a while ago is the person responsible. He was not a suspect that I know of, but doing some research I believe he might be someone they should look into more. I don't think I can name the person on here. The last name of this person can be mistaken to sound like Eric when spoken by a person in the condition Jessica was. I wonder if the police are looking into him more.

It would be also great to know if Jessica did indeed have an argument a week before with some guy in front of the gas station store, and if there was some kind of altercation she had with someone that led to a complaint being filed against her. This is what I have been reading online. This is just internet rumor though, I think.

I'm hoping with all the agencies involved that they will be able to solve this case.
 
samantha17 said:
MSCJgrad said:
So true, ffj, so true. How much was in the fund that was disbursed to JC's folks? I was certain that they would throw every cent towards the reward... I don't recall ever reading anything after the JFJ page thanked everyone for donating, and confirmed the family had received the funds. Also, there are plenty of people out there who are rich beyond belief... Unfortunately this case hasn't been publicized by MSM enough to get anyone's attention. I sincerely wish that somebody with a great deal of experience in PR managing the families of victims of crime would step up, and represent JC here- go knocking on doors, seeking media coverage, seeking reward donations, seeking funds for a respectable private investigator, seeking justice. I feel that the right person getting involved with sincerity in their quest for justice, for answers, for Jessica; could change the game here, so to speak. It's the squeaky wheel that gets greased, IMO.[/QUOT

And that would be interferring in a LE investigation which would more than likely be a crime itself.
Click to expand...

How is hiring a private investigator interfering with an investigation?

"A private investigator can devote a great deal of quality time to re-investigate and closely scrutinize all aspects of a given case. Investigators are often hired to widen theories, identify new leads in the case, interview or re-interview witnesses, and interface with law enforcement.

With expertise, private investigators can take an unsolved crime or a cold case file and scour it with fresh eyes and new perspective. With new insight they can then begin to follow the evidence, across typical jurisdiction-limits, setting aside any preconceived notions and allowing the evidence to tell the story (http://pursuitmag.com/private-investigators-assisting-with-unsolved-crimes-and-cold-cases/)".
Click to expand...
 
EllaMae said:
...

I believe that most of that kind of thinking comes from prejudice about the region in which this crime occurred. Don't assume that the investigators have had no training or aren't that smart just because they work in rural Mississippi. All the references about country music and good ol' boys.....really not accurate. The actual problem is the same all over the US....a rise in crime and cuts in funding due to the lingering recession. That means less resources for LE and investigators who are stretched too thin,especially in poor rural communities.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty broad brush someone's painting with :)

Please, don't assume that those of us who think LE made an error in judgment are prejudiced for ANY reason. I guess I could be offended at having been assumed to be so narrow minded as to dismiss a lack of adherence to proper investigative procedures as "normal" to a specific region. Our subject in this specific case is a specific piece of Mississippi, but whether it was a case of laziness, lack of ethics, incompetence or ignorance - those traits can exist in any geographic location. I'm using those adjectives as examples of what it was that caused a seeming lack of care in this. It may or may not have been any of those, but it does give the appearance of lack of physical care.

It has less to do with any regional aspect than the awareness that common sense guidelines were not followed by adhering to basic standard (and expected) investigative procedures. If this same crime occurred in upstate New York or Bel Air, CA and the crime scene was "processed" just that quickly, believe me, we'd have the same observations and opinions.

In the same town, an on-scene investigation of a drug manufacturing raid -that involved no assaults, no injuries, no bodies, let alone an unimaginably sadistic and grisly, MURDER - took 10.5 hours to clear. They were in a building, protected from the elements, abundant lighting.

Jessica Chambers' murder scene was cleared and unattended after only a few hours.

The sheer number of pieces of evidence in a drug manufacturing raid notwithstanding - the murder scene should have at the very least - been blocked off and protected and manned throughout the night until more could be done with daylight.

I've always been a huge fan of Law Enforcement and the justice system and will continue to support.

These are my opinions and that's that. :D
 
ashny said:
This is my first time posting and I hope I don't post something that is not allowed

I normally don't follow this kind of stuff, but for some reason Jessica's story has really touched me. I have read friends and acquaintances of Jessica describe her as sweet, happy, always smiling, kind, someone who liked everyone and never judged people. I think she had a rough childhood, and it's sad that her life was taken before she could get out of that town, and I think those were her plans.

This case is so odd, reading about the town and the cast of characters that live there is like a Twilight Zone episode, only more strange.

I have thought about many of the same things people have posted here, and of course the thing that always stands out is the gas can person/people on the store camera. I just think the police would have found something by now if those people were involved.

I also wonder how people knew so quickly that she had lighter fluid poured down her throat. Have the police even confirmed this to be true?

I'm not going to bore everyone with all the thoughts I've had about this case, but I will mention one thing that I can't get out of my head. The names Jessica supposedly said before she passed away. I saw the interview with the man who said police came to his house because his name matched the name that Jessica mentioned. I saw the firefighter interview where he said that she did say something but he could not say what it was. The father also claims she named the killer. Has it been confirmed that she said any names?

I am going to assume she did say a name. Was the name clear though? Was it hard to understand her and that is why they are coming up with a couple of names that sound similar? Are they sure it was the name of the killer? Did she specifically say that was her killer? Could it have been a last name? It would actually make more sense that she would say a last name, because as we have seen just a first name makes it harder to know who it was she was referring to. She was a smart girl and I can picture her making sure she gave them a last name. If she didn't know the person's last name then that would be different.

I do have a theory as to what happened, and I also have been thinking that it is possible one of the people briefly interviewed a while ago is the person responsible. He was not a suspect that I know of, but doing some research I believe he might be someone they should look into more. I don't think I can name the person on here. The last name of this person can be mistaken to sound like Eric when spoken by a person in the condition Jessica was. I wonder if the police are looking into him more.

It would be also great to know if Jessica did indeed have an argument a week before with some guy in front of the gas station store, and if there was some kind of altercation she had with someone that led to a complaint being filed against her. This is what I have been reading online. This is just internet rumor though, I think.

I'm hoping with all the agencies involved that they will be able to solve this case.
Click to expand...

:wagon: ashny :) Great first post. An while you are right you cannot name the person you suspect you have done a great job of laying breadcrumbs to get us there. I look forward to reading more of your thoughts.

I don't think we have ever had confirmation from LE or first responders that Jessica said a name. We do know she communicated or tried to with fire captain and we know she said or attempted to say something.

We have heard of this confrontation at the gas station in the week or weeks before that Jessica was involved in but I don't think LE has confirmed that either nor has the sex of the other individual involved been clear, although theories abound.

Once again, glad you took the leap to jump into the conversation.
 
ashny said:
This is my first time posting and I hope I don't post something that is not allowed

I normally don't follow this kind of stuff, but for some reason Jessica's story has really touched me. I have read friends and acquaintances of Jessica describe her as sweet, happy, always smiling, kind, someone who liked everyone and never judged people. I think she had a rough childhood, and it's sad that her life was taken before she could get out of that town, and I think those were her plans.

This case is so odd, reading about the town and the cast of characters that live there is like a Twilight Zone episode, only more strange.

I have thought about many of the same things people have posted here, and of course the thing that always stands out is the gas can person/people on the store camera. I just think the police would have found something by now if those people were involved.

I also wonder how people knew so quickly that she had lighter fluid poured down her throat. Have the police even confirmed this to be true?

I'm not going to bore everyone with all the thoughts I've had about this case, but I will mention one thing that I can't get out of my head. The names Jessica supposedly said before she passed away. I saw the interview with the man who said police came to his house because his name matched the name that Jessica mentioned. I saw the firefighter interview where he said that she did say something but he could not say what it was. The father also claims she named the killer. Has it been confirmed that she said any names?

I am going to assume she did say a name. Was the name clear though? Was it hard to understand her and that is why they are coming up with a couple of names that sound similar? Are they sure it was the name of the killer? Did she specifically say that was her killer? Could it have been a last name? It would actually make more sense that she would say a last name, because as we have seen just a first name makes it harder to know who it was she was referring to. She was a smart girl and I can picture her making sure she gave them a last name. If she didn't know the person's last name then that would be different.

I do have a theory as to what happened, and I also have been thinking that it is possible one of the people briefly interviewed a while ago is the person responsible. He was not a suspect that I know of, but doing some research I believe he might be someone they should look into more. I don't think I can name the person on here. The last name of this person can be mistaken to sound like Eric when spoken by a person in the condition Jessica was. I wonder if the police are looking into him more.

It would be also great to know if Jessica did indeed have an argument a week before with some guy in front of the gas station store, and if there was some kind of altercation she had with someone that led to a complaint being filed against her. This is what I have been reading online. This is just internet rumor though, I think.

I'm hoping with all the agencies involved that they will be able to solve this case.
Click to expand...

Thanks for posting, and welcome to the thread. I wish I had answers for all of your questions, but unfortunately, we know very few things to be certain. Part of the problem we have had thus far with keeping things straight, has been with the reporting done by MSM. One news station would state JC was walking, on fire, then the next day there is an article describing her as being found laying by the car. One reporter will say that JC had accelerant poured down her throat and up her nose, and the next will state that no specific details have been released. There has been one thing after another contradicted, and it is hard to nail down any facts. There is a media thread, where a majority of the links pertaining to this case have been posted. You can take a look in there and see for yourself :facepalm:.

To my knowledge, LE has only confirmed that an accelerant was used, not whether or not it was poured down her throat, etc. Those were statements made by JC's dad, and AA, the clerk/store owner/dude who took pictures of JC's car directly after the fact, parked in front of his store. AA claimed to have that knowledge given to him by LE. LE never confirmed/denied that. It has also not been confirmed by LE what exactly was said by JC. Her sister and father both stated she said the name of the killer, HC fireman said he was told by JC, but cannot elaborate. JC's mother stated that JC spoke while in the helicopter, and did not state specifically what was said.

As far as the alleged argument/choking in front of the store a week prior, this has not been confirmed by anyone, either LE or MSM. AA stated in an extended interview that he had heard about it, but did not see it, as it happened in the morning, and he does not work mornings. We have no record, thus far, confirming if this alleged altercation happened, if it was with a male or a female, etc.

Regarding the complaint being filed against her, are you referring to the charges her mother was responsible for, and then later withdrew after her stay @ LH? I am not aware of any complaints being filed against JC the week prior to her death; if so, it has not been discussed by MSM or LE thus far, I don't think.

I hope this helps! And once again thanks for posting and a fresh perspective is always appreciated, IMO.
 
Everyone, I will be closing this thread in about 15 minutes and then start a new one. This is getting too long.

15 minutes new thread will be ready to go and this one will be closed.
 
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