IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 #25

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As I see it, CR's attorney also messed with the text by saying that CR has memory loss from the SW hit and that LS helped CR home. How exactly would he have known the latter anyhow unless he had witnesses, since CR can't remember?

Easy - MB (and video evidence).
 
No one has found any connection between AA and anyone else in the case. I came up with "MPOI," and am quite sure it is not AA, and pretty sure it is DB.

Do you have data of DB's height, weight? He sure doesn't have dark skin nor "defined facial bone structure" and he looks larger than 160 pounds. I know witness accounts can be off, and if he was in the lower stairs, she wouldn't have a good look at him, but his face is hardly "defined." His companion in Twitter pic matches the description better.
 
Easy - MB (and video evidence).

But MB wasn't at SW or in the alley, just the apartment (as far as we know). I agree in theory about video evidence, but Salzmann seemed to edit his story after the video of LS stumbling out of the elevator became a hot topic, saying maybe they helped each other. What he said first omits that CR helped LS as well. And omissions don't help the case (or his client, IMO).
 
I think both of these are explicable by their respective conditions.


Their conditions are not fact. While many agree and LE has acknowledged the possibility.... however that leave room for suspicion.

The purpose of the call has been said to be to get DR, who has a car, to pick her up and take her home, not for her phone.


The purpose is truly unknown, so again there is nothing concrete to allow any of us to be an expert on the matter, therefore....still room for suspicion.

And we know nothing to say he wasn't, or that he couldn't have seen her from somewhere else (as far as I'm concerned - none of us have been in his apartment?).

The front faces north, the east has an apartment adjacent to it...the angle alone creates enough limitation for me to create suspicion.

These ideas were posted as suspicion of the events reported after the 2:51 video, not fact.
 
But MB wasn't at SW or in the alley, just the apartment (as far as we know). I agree in theory about video evidence, but Salzmann seemed to edit his story after the video of LS stumbling out of the elevator became a hot topic, saying maybe they helped each other. What he said first omits that CR helped LS as well. And omissions don't help the case (or his client, IMO).

MB knows they came home together, when they did so, what they did there, what they said, and what their condition was. That, not to mention the time-stamped video showing them going together from SW to 5N, is enough for the lawyer to say what he's said, I'm sure. And I know the family has taken some hits at him, but I think there must be some subtext to that to which we're not party - I don't think he edited his story, only added a bit to his characterization in a way that didn't really change it much at all.
 
The front faces north, the east has an apartment adjacent to it..

Is it impossible to lean out the window? This all assumes he didn't go outside - I don't believe he ever said that.

As akh's post says above, if there were any impossibilities in someone's story, I think we would be farther along than we are. Ergo, I have to assume it's possible.
 
But MB wasn't at SW or in the alley, just the apartment (as far as we know). I agree in theory about video evidence, but Salzmann seemed to edit his story after the video of LS stumbling out of the elevator became a hot topic, saying maybe they helped each other. What he said first omits that CR helped LS as well. And omissions don't help the case (or his client, IMO).

PS: I may have only half-addressed your (earlier) response here. Re Salzmann's comment on CR's memory loss: I read one interview where MB said he put CR to bed because he'd been drinking, which, given cause and effect, could explain CR's alleged memory loss as well as the SW hit could. I get why Salzmann doesn't want to say his client was wasted, but if CR and LS were in the same condition in the video (thus helping each other), and she hadn't been hit, it seems significant.

But yes, there may be a subtext we're not aware of. I suspect that's a big issue ...
 
It was heart warming to see the Greek walk. They were like a giant blue ribbon streaming through campus and onto Dunn Meadow.

Thanks for sharing this and your experiences at the concert with us, Jupiter. It's wonderful to see IU remember and be there for LS like that.

I followed a link to the findlauren website ... the video there is heartbreaking ... the music and pics of LS at all ages. http://findlauren.com/

One pic stood out for me ... she had a UofM t-shirt on, maize yellow with a blue "M." Probably because her sister went there, I realize ... six degrees of separation and all that.
 
My quote:
"The front faces north, the east has an apartment adjacent to it...the angle alone creates enough limitation for me to create suspicion."


Is it impossible to lean out the window? This all assumes he didn't go outside - I don't believe he ever said that.

As akh's post says above, if there were any impossibilities in someone's story, I think we would be farther along than we are. Ergo, I have to assume it's possible.

Obviously, little is impossible, but I did not say it was impossible, I said it created suspicion....for me. I am not trying to pursuade anyone toward a particular idea...I don't think that is the intent on this forum, Mods?
 
Thanks for sharing this and your experiences at the concert with us, Jupiter. It's wonderful to see IU remember and be there for LS like that.

I followed a link to the findlauren website ... the video there is heartbreaking ... the music and pics of LS at all ages. http://findlauren.com/

One pic stood out for me ... she had a UofM t-shirt on, maize yellow with a blue "M." Probably because her sister went there, I realize ... six degrees of separation and all that.

You're very welcome. I'm glad to have a place to share, otherwise my head would hurt real bad. :eek:hoh:

Good point about Lauren in the U of M shirt, Keylime. :saber: I recall seeing that. I think it's more like 2 degrees of separation which certainly makes a certain MPOI seem more likely.
 
On the issue of what is a fact: We know that all three 5N POI have taken polygraphs, most or all of which were privately-administered. We don't know what they were asked, or whether they told the truth, but I think it's a good assumption that pretty much anything they have told LE they also told to the poly administrator, and that they probably were only poly'd on things that were true. Therefore, I think that we can assume it's probable that most or all of what we have heard from LE and the POI's attorneys, and perhaps also what we have heard from the POI via other parties, is true. This includes JR watching LS walk off, from wherever he did so, and CR's memory loss (though how precisely that was subject to a poly might be open to question). It is of course entirely possible that these things are not true - we're all rightly somewhat skeptical about them - and maybe even probable given the family's questioning. But for purposes of helping to figure out what happened, which I think is the purpose of this forum, I think it might benefit us to try to come up with some thoughts based on the assumption that they are, even if we might prefer for whatever reason to believe that they are not. That is my personal belief.
 
I remember reading somewhere that the next morning a neighbor of CR stated CR asked
"If they had seen that little blonde girl"? Lets assume that the next morning when he woke up, MB was there. I'm sure MB would have recaped what happened the night before(since CR can't remenber)and that CS left to go to JR's. Lets assume that MB wasn't there when he woke up. Would he not just assume that LS went home? So, why would need need to ask if anyone had seen that little blonde girl? Maybe he is trying to see if any of the neighbors heard or saw anything that morning.
 
I remember reading somewhere that the next morning a neighbor of CR stated CR asked
"If they had seen that little blonde girl"? Lets assume that the next morning when he woke up, MB was there. I'm sure MB would have recaped what happened the night before(since CR can't remenber)and that CS left to go to JR's. Lets assume that MB wasn't there when he woke up. Would he not just assume that LS went home? So, why would need need to ask if anyone had seen that little blonde girl? Maybe he is trying to see if any of the neighbors heard or saw anything that morning.

I think this took place on Saturday morning June 4, which would be the day after CR woke up with amnesia.

It would be interesting to hear a recap of conversations the morning of June 3. It would be informative to know in what order JR, DR, MB and CR gave their stories to HT and what questions they asked her. Same for any interaction with JW.
 
Does anyone else believe that if RS/CS don't know these things they must not have a very good PI.
1. who was present at 5 North Townhomes June 2/3
2. which vehicles were available,
3 who texted/called who that night and the following days among LS,JW,CR,JR,MB, DR,AB,DB,HT
4. who contacted their parents and what time
 
HT should be a POI if she's not already. I think she was jealous of Lauren, a beautiful blonde, natural, tiny, sweet, loved by so many. I have yet to see her shed a tear, just babbling to the media, LOVING to hear herself talk. That chick is bad news IMO.

The first time I saw HT on tv, I thought, "Does this gal realize this isn't fiction? Why is she giddy? Why is she acting like this?" It's hard to know if:

she's aware of more than she lets on...
OR
that to be on television and in so much drama and excitement she fails to grasp both the gravity and the reality of the situation. JMO.
 
On the issue of what is a fact: We know that all three 5N POI have taken polygraphs, most or all of which were privately-administered. We don't know what they were asked, or whether they told the truth, but I think it's a good assumption that pretty much anything they have told LE they also told to the poly administrator, and that they probably were only poly'd on things that were true. Therefore, I think that we can assume it's probable that most or all of what we have heard from LE and the POI's attorneys, and perhaps also what we have heard from the POI via other parties, is true. This includes JR watching LS walk off, from wherever he did so, and CR's memory loss (though how precisely that was subject to a poly might be open to question). It is of course entirely possible that these things are not true - we're all rightly somewhat skeptical about them - and maybe even probable given the family's questioning. But for purposes of helping to figure out what happened, which I think is the purpose of this forum, I think it might benefit us to try to come up with some thoughts based on the assumption that they are, even if we might prefer for whatever reason to believe that they are not. That is my personal belief.

I think your logic is solid here. An atty would only poly statements that could be interpreted as true. For example, CR would poly to "I have no memory of the evening" (he doesn't have a memory but he knows because someone told him), MB would poly to "I watched her walk out the door (doesn't say with who) and MB may also poly to "Do you want to party" (she may have also said ,CR gave me the craziest pill at Sports, you should try one) but he would leave that out. JR may poly to "I watched her round the corner"
(could be in the back of a car or over someone's shoulder)

I would love to see each of them give these statements under oath.

But given all that I think the odds are higher for JR beating a poly than for him to have the patience at 4:00 in the morning to watch a barefoot girl walk to the corner.
 
I think your logic is solid here. An atty would only poly statements that could be interpreted as true. For example, CR would poly to "I have no memory of the evening" (he doesn't have a memory but he knows because someone told him), MB would poly to "I watched her walk out the door (doesn't say with who) and MB may also poly to "Do you want to party" (she may have also said ,CR gave me the craziest pill at Sports, you should try one) but he would leave that out. JR may poly to "I watched her round the corner"

Except JR has said that LS rounded the corner alone on foot, MB said she left alone, and CR has claimed memory loss only from the time they left the bar.
 

The key takeaway from this interview, in my opinion: more evidence that drugs (he specifically mentions pills like xanax) are at issue (though he also acknowledges the possibility of a crime of opportunity). The negative comments about BPD are interesting, but I wouldn't take them at face value, necessarily. I hope, in light of stuff like this - http://thinkprogress.org/media/2009/11/11/68883/dietl-couric-imus/ - that he helps rather than hurts.
 
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