Trial Thread 7 May 2012 - Closing Arguments, Defense then the Crown

Status
Not open for further replies.
Sorry to tired to link the tweet from around page 20 something but Derstine says it was too cold for TLM to be be outside without a coat in Mount Forest, because MR used her coat to wipe his appendage off with, but yet he believed his only witness's statement that TLM stuck out like a sore thumb to her because it was too hot to be wearing a winter coat. Go figure MOO. Oh and it was more than likely only about two or three hours after abducting Tori TLM went without her coat. AND Derstine has no qualms about TLM being the one who stomped and beat Tori but yet he didn't figure her adrenaline would have been pumped and she wouldn't find it the least bit cold, same for MR and being naked from the waist down; all of a sudden it's too cold....hmm. *scratches head* Somewhat contradictory?!
 
MR set it up to abduct a child from TLM's neighbourhood "just in case" they were caught. MR could once again make it look like it was her idea. He was hoping to remove himself from every picture possible. Sending her into HD, daring TLM to abduct a child. I would not be surprised in the least if MR put the hammer in her hand. Very well could be why TLM changed her story, because in reality if she did hit Tori with the hammer, it was at his say so. I'm sure he also egged her on while she kicked and stomped Tori. MR is one sick minded psychopathy. As stated by TLM MR said "you're just as far into this as I am", or something to that nature. He wanted to make it look more like she was the guilty party and it was all her idea and he was some dumb innocent dupe. He was very cunning but actually quite stupid, and very manipulative IMHO. Thankfully the truth came out from TLM and tomorrow the Crown will prove TLM told the truth and this will put MR away. I have no doubt about it, he's going to be found guilty on all three charges. JMHO

I think that is a possibility. That may have been apart of daring her. If TLM killed Tori then MTR could guarantee that TLM was indeed 'just as far into it' as he was, YKWIM?
 
A few years ago I had my SUV stolen and it was recovered. The driver's side window had been smashed for the thieves to gain entry. No matter how many times I vacuumed, two or three years later there were still pieces of glass surfacing. Where it would come from I don't know.

An old expression that comes to mind is that "Dead men do tell tales". What are the chances that the ONLY sliver that remained of the seat just happened to have blood on it? Says to me that there was a larger amount of blood or other body fluids on the rest of the seat that is missing.

JMO

ETA: I goofed kinda ... the original expression was "Dead men don't tell tales", but there are those in forensics and LE who believe that they do.

That miniscule piece of fabric could have fallen into one of MR's shoes while TLM was cutting away in the dark and got missed. Then when forensics was clearing the car for testing, it may have fallen out of the shoe, which may be why it was never discovered in all the possible cleanings MR did to clean up evidence. MOO
 
Wow I'm literally in shock about the defense's closing argument. Absolutely nothing. Derstine didn't even spin a story for MR. For most of the closing I could have sworn I was at TLM's trial. Sounds like Derstine has convicted MR of abduction at least. He was also very proud of his one and only unreliable witness who had many of us scratching our heads asking WTH?He tried to poopoo the Crown's evidence away saying there was none when it came right down to it. Makes me wonder if Derstine was awake through the whole trial up until today. He became very obsessed with TLM who plead guilty and is serving 25 years. Her choice of music and her writings seemed to be a big indication of her guilt and state of mind, but then later admitted that music does not influence the way people think and act. He was also obsessed with giving lots of examples. Ikes I wasn't impressed whatsoever but that's just MPO.

I missed everything ... but, if what you say is correct, then it sounds like he tried to argue that people that watch *advertiser censored* want to rape ... or ... people that listen to bad music act out the lyrics. Good thing he back-tracked on that argument.

I suppose that we have to keep in mind that the lawyer can only work with what his client tells him. If the client says little beyond accusing his co-consprirator, then that's all we see at trial ... and that is what we saw.

There have been several references to the Casey Anthony jury and fears that any jury could go sideways like that. I think the big difference is that lawyers have a professional obligation not to fabricate. Casey Anthony's lawyer seemed to fabricate. MR's lawyer can only work with what he has been told. He's know that MR claims he thought TLM was babysitting, that this is supported by the witness statement of seeing a white-coated woman enter the school ... so that's what was presented in court. If MR had anything else to offer in his defence - in addition to a mistaken 60 year old woman - he would have. Apparently his mother could not vouch for him on the night of the murder ... even though it seems he went home and she was at home.

If he was "duped", why didn't she testify about his state of mind that evening? Surely a kind, duped, decent man would want to talk about his devastating experience ... surely his mother recognized his distress and advised him correctly ... n'est pas?
 
Hearing helicopters overhead morning of April 9th.

Both TLM and MR used the same scenario for how they found out VS was missing.*
IMHO I think this sounds like alibi planning post murder between both MR and TLM.


TLM
See Page 63 of linked PDF.
Her handwritten notes on various alibi scenario or possible Q&A she could use if ever questioned (used in the trial during her direct and I think her cross)

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod-images/file/1297244480350_Rafferty_trial_evidence.pdf

Rafferty interview with LE on May 15th
Link
At 12:44 into audio interview MR answers question from LE on when he found out VS was missing.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/195588

Or*
transcript, pg 21-22 of PDF link below
http://www.am980.ca/Other/Rafferty Transcript.pdf
I have copied in from the PDF.
(LE) JOHNSON:
so back on the eighth (8th) of April okay when the little girl went missing
RAFFERTY: uh
JOHNSON:**um did you follow it at all did you hear about it in the in the news or anything like that
RAFFERTY: I heard the helicopters and stuff*
JOHNSON: did ya
RAFFERTY: and that’s when I realized that some crazy stuff was going on but
JOHNSON: right when when was the first that you heard about it like who told you about it

RAFFERTY: the helicopters that morning and I was sleeping and I heard the helicopter I was like holy crap and then that’s when...
 
just to clarify...<modsnip>...I do not think he kidnapped...raped...or murdered TS....I do believe he helped with the coverup and the disposal and of course hid those facts from LE until he was arrested...I do not know if at that time he related this to LE because it has not been mentioned...


respectfully....JMO JMO...

So ... in between covering up, disposing of the body and hiding his involvement ... you aren't sure he had something to do with Victoria's death because "it has not been mentioned ..."?

He may as well be 6 feet under for all he has to contribute. I hope he is never released He seems so slimy and under-handed. I also wonder how the rest of the family is coping.

I liked MR's moms' shirt. She reminds a bit of Scott Peterson's mother. She was dark haired and wore dark sunglasses. One dragged an oxygen tank around for a while, a bit like a cane. I see them as defeated women that don't want to admit it. She seems to be motoring for a woman with a cane.

I should apologize for commenting on the family of the accused, but this does speak to the eye witness testimony on the evening of the murder and what the accused was like that evening. Since the mother has chosen to come forth with opinions about innocence and justice, I think that she should be willing to even answer questions about her son on the night of the murder. When Morgan Harrington went missing, her family revealed the good with the bad and hoped for the best.

Rafferty_Mom.jpg


RefL CTV
 
I cannot even bring myself to comment on his mother...I probably would be banned from here ;)

I will say this: I am a mother to an 8 yr old son. I will start praying harder that I am raising him to be of good morals & judgement. I hope he's of good character & has the strength to never be duped by the likes of TLM.

Good grief!! I feel like I'm sitting on my hands here & biting my tongue like never before!

I think that, as a parent, it's reasonable to look at the accused kidnapper/rapist/murderer's background and wonder what went wrong. Naturally, it's not going to be flattering.

As for the 8 year old, sign him up for the rowing team ... that will be just as effective as all the good one does as a parent for 18 years. The only other thing I know about parenting is to be sure to help your children become the best that they can be.
 
When I watch MR's family in the media cameras, I think that they know that he is the type of guy that could have done this to Victoria.

What an all round tragic event. We have McClintic, a child of prostitution that was given to another woman who became a pharmaceuticals addict. McClintic became an addict and sought out other addicts. She foud MR, who was not only an addict, but an addict that had others pay for his addiction (escort hook up). In the middle, we have a single mom with a little girl, 8 hear old Victoria Stafford.

Perhaps TLM and/or MR knew, or saw Victoria Stafford before the murder. Who knows if the she was targeted or not. The bottom line is that TLM grabbed her off the street, led her to MR's car, they dorve around, got high,
 
Hearing helicopters overhead morning of April 9th.

Both TLM and MR used the same scenario for how they found out VS was missing.*
IMHO I think this sounds like alibi planning post murder between both MR and TLM.


TLM
See Page 63 of linked PDF.
Her handwritten notes on various alibi scenario or possible Q&A she could use if ever questioned (used in the trial during her direct and I think her cross)

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod-images/file/1297244480350_Rafferty_trial_evidence.pdf

Rafferty interview with LE on May 15th
Link
At 12:44 into audio interview MR answers question from LE on when he found out VS was missing.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/195588

Or*
transcript, pg 21-22 of PDF link below
http://www.am980.ca/Other/Rafferty Transcript.pdf
I have copied in from the PDF.
(LE) JOHNSON:
so back on the eighth (8th) of April okay when the little girl went missing
RAFFERTY: uh
JOHNSON:**um did you follow it at all did you hear about it in the in the news or anything like that
RAFFERTY: I heard the helicopters and stuff*
JOHNSON: did ya
RAFFERTY: and that’s when I realized that some crazy stuff was going on but
JOHNSON: right when when was the first that you heard about it like who told you about it

RAFFERTY: the helicopters that morning and I was sleeping and I heard the helicopter I was like holy crap and then that’s when...

good catch! MOO
 
When I watch MR's family in the media cameras, I think that they know that he is the type of guy that could have done this to Victoria.

it is in the googley eyes. MOO
 
Derstine didn't have too much to say (even though he took all day).

He soley focused on TLM, while skimming over the culpability of his client's actions and inacations.

He avoided speaking about much of the forensics, that the Crown will focus on, no doubt.

All the pings, video, corroborating evidence - not much said, eh?

What can you say about all that, really? It's all circumstantial, hard, corroborating evidence to TLM's testimony.

You can't deny that Derstine, so, best not talk about it, really.

That blood, you know, the "proof" that Tori was in the car (really? that's ALL that was? *sickening*). Not much to say about that, eh?

The OTHER blood, you know, the stuff that was all mixed up, your client's and the victims? What was that from, just another Michael Rafferty Day?

Just because you client did a good job getting rid of evidence of his assault, witholding evidence, lying, and criminally, yes, criminally, participating in an unspeakable crime, does NOT make him innocent.

I bet he enjoys the song and tap-dance you did in the courtroom today, Derstine. I bet he is thrilled that he has someone on his side, who through silence and shifting blame, is defending him, the alleged child rapist and murderer. Hell, you may have even convinced HIM that he didn't do it, he wants to get out so bad.

I have faith the Jury will see the facts in this case, and render their verdict according to the law, and bring Victoria Stafford the Justice her memory deserves.

JMO


So well said. Thanks. MOO
 
I think you are mistaken. Victoria's father cycled across the counrty to the Rocky Mountains to make sure that everyone was aware of this case.

Trial updates are on the daily news across the country.

yes and the major news is covering this and following this story for the last 3 years BECAUSE ppl in this country want to know what happened to TS; they want justice for her. MOO
 
I am having a very difficult time believing MR did NOT know he was part of a kidnapping very early on for one very simple reason: If Tori was told she was going to see a puppy, her mom, friend, (insert whatever excuse TLM gave) etc she would almost certainly start to say something or question once they hit the 401. And if she couldn't see the HWY, then it's true she was being forced to hide. Kids know that's the way out of town to somewhere else. 8 year olds can stay quiet only so long, it's their nature to be chatty. IMO MR had more than enough time and opportunity to right the wrong and he chose to keep driving.

yes would TS not have voiced her displeasure at "heyyyy where are those puppies you told me you had" when she got to the car. Did MTR miss that? MOO
 
Hearing helicopters overhead morning of April 9th.

Both TLM and MR used the same scenario for how they found out VS was missing.*
IMHO I think this sounds like alibi planning post murder between both MR and TLM.


TLM
See Page 63 of linked PDF.
Her handwritten notes on various alibi scenario or possible Q&A she could use if ever questioned (used in the trial during her direct and I think her cross)

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod-images/file/1297244480350_Rafferty_trial_evidence.pdf

Rafferty interview with LE on May 15th
Link
At 12:44 into audio interview MR answers question from LE on when he found out VS was missing.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/195588

Or*
transcript, pg 21-22 of PDF link below
http://www.am980.ca/Other/Rafferty Transcript.pdf
I have copied in from the PDF.
(LE) JOHNSON:
so back on the eighth (8th) of April okay when the little girl went missing
RAFFERTY: uh
JOHNSON:**um did you follow it at all did you hear about it in the in the news or anything like that
RAFFERTY: I heard the helicopters and stuff*
JOHNSON: did ya
RAFFERTY: and that’s when I realized that some crazy stuff was going on but
JOHNSON: right when when was the first that you heard about it like who told you about it

RAFFERTY: the helicopters that morning and I was sleeping and I heard the helicopter I was like holy crap and then that’s when...

Excellent point. This was a rehearsed detail from both of them. I wonder if the detail about "hearing the helicopters" was another aspect of MR's story he told to friends when he discussed the case with them, I mean, in addition to the whole drug-debt thing. JMO
 
Hearing helicopters overhead morning of April 9th.

Both TLM and MR used the same scenario for how they found out VS was missing.*
IMHO I think this sounds like alibi planning post murder between both MR and TLM.


TLM
See Page 63 of linked PDF.
Her handwritten notes on various alibi scenario or possible Q&A she could use if ever questioned (used in the trial during her direct and I think her cross)

http://storage.canoe.ca/v1/suns-prod-images/file/1297244480350_Rafferty_trial_evidence.pdf

Rafferty interview with LE on May 15th
Link
At 12:44 into audio interview MR answers question from LE on when he found out VS was missing.

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/video/195588

Or*
transcript, pg 21-22 of PDF link below
http://www.am980.ca/Other/Rafferty Transcript.pdf
I have copied in from the PDF.
(LE) JOHNSON:
so back on the eighth (8th) of April okay when the little girl went missing
RAFFERTY: uh
JOHNSON:**um did you follow it at all did you hear about it in the in the news or anything like that
RAFFERTY: I heard the helicopters and stuff*
JOHNSON: did ya
RAFFERTY: and that’s when I realized that some crazy stuff was going on but
JOHNSON: right when when was the first that you heard about it like who told you about it

RAFFERTY: the helicopters that morning and I was sleeping and I heard the helicopter I was like holy crap and then that’s when...

The closing with the defence was based on TLM's whole testimony as being lies, or I should say what the defence is calling lies, except for one piece that fits for them, so they believe that one!!!!!....reviewing what you posted above reminds us all that MR told quite a few himself....why...becuase he is GUILTY. The duo were really 2 peas in a pod.
 
The sad thing is ... What if his story is true ...

If his story is true, he still didn't do ANYTHING stop the savage murder of this girl, he had numerous opportunity to stop it. He could have refused to let her in his car to start with, he could have refused to drive anywhere TLM wanted him to, he could have done many many things and the truth is he didn't. He could have helped LE find Tori's body, he could have come forward before TLM confessed, HE DIDN'T. He is as guilty as she is!!!!!!!!!! I still wouldn't want him living in my neighbourhood knowing all this.
 
So ... in between covering up, disposing of the body and hiding his involvement ... you aren't sure he had something to do with Victoria's death because "it has not been mentioned ..."?

He may as well be 6 feet under for all he has to contribute. I hope he is never released He seems so slimy and under-handed. I also wonder how the rest of the family is coping.

I liked MR's moms' shirt. She reminds a bit of Scott Peterson's mother. She was dark haired and wore dark sunglasses. One dragged an oxygen tank around for a while, a bit like a cane. I see them as defeated women that don't want to admit it. She seems to be motoring for a woman with a cane.

I should apologize for commenting on the family of the accused, but this does speak to the eye witness testimony on the evening of the murder and what the accused was like that evening. Since the mother has chosen to come forth with opinions about innocence and justice, I think that she should be willing to even answer questions about her son on the night of the murder. When Morgan Harrington went missing, her family revealed the good with the bad and hoped for the best.

Rafferty_Mom.jpg


RefL CTV

Good comparison--head in the sand and also has a prop (ie MR's mom with a cane SP's mom with oxygen tank) Also both MR and SP are their youngest "do no wrong" sons......interesting comparison.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
173
Guests online
4,395
Total visitors
4,568

Forum statistics

Threads
591,843
Messages
17,959,912
Members
228,622
Latest member
crimedeepdives23
Back
Top