Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #34

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Yes I Think everyone was surprised that the only external injury apparently was the chipped tooth. In fact it makes little sense to think there would be nothing else given that area is indeed "snaggy". I agree and have felt all along that we will find out much more later on.

Until the charges were made I seriously contemplated GBC ending ALlisons life but that it was quite possible he called NBC and it was NBC who took the body on his own and disposed of it with GBC perhaps distraught, in shock, panicking (or all of these) staying at home in case the children woke up. I also wondered, before the charges, if NBC came over carefully wrapped Allison, took her elsewhere, then figured out a plan and dumped her at the place of origin a little later.

Something just makes me think how is there only a chipped tooth? How does one dump a body in frenzied panic, in the dark in scrubby bushland? Seemingly there's thick scrub to get through. If dragged even covered by a blanket there would likely be an evident path left waiting to be discovered. One would think the body had abrasions. If somehow thrown off a bridge (which I don't believe) one would again think there'd be more than the chipped tooth.

So I do wonder about the interfering with a corpse. For the body to have possibly only a chipped tooth considering where she was found says to me that whoever did dump Allison may have done it carefully and methodically it could be argued otherwise you'd suspect drag marks, abrasions and all manner of other things.

But again I thought most of this a while ago but doubts still linger as to why we have only heard of 1 chipped tooth. Btw, I hate the word "dump" - sorry

Coincidence you thought about it being possible NBC could have taken care of Allison's body....I found this post from way back today...

#471 05-06-2012, 03:19 PM
BrookieLocal
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14

Don't forget B-C Snr was in the Special Forces in Zimbabwe, if anyone you know how to keep calm in a situation (dead wife) then it would be him. I also wondered if GB-C was driving towards to roundabout so he could meet his Dad at the shopping centre (non-locals - there is an entrance to the shopping centre a few metres before the roundabout). Perhaps they transferred Allison's body into "Bwana" car and B-C Snr disposed of the body so GB-C could confidently tell police he did not know where Allison was. ?

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7877090#post7877090"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3 - Page 19 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
Agreed. I think there is a valid reason he's there. Someone mentioned earier he was there maybe meeting QPS to let them in. It's a murder investigation and the house was rented - its owned by that company, can't recall the name though. It's since been vacated. He ain't there to open the door for them. He's been actively avoiding them as far as we know.

The trailer was hooked up to the prado. If NBC was just there to meet QPS then why the trailer. It looked empty to me. I do have a blurry photo of the trailer and prado but have no idea how to attach it and its not an exciting photo.

I had a friend with me and I have just asked her what she saw NBC carrying as she was a little more "bolder" than I with the sleuthing. I quote what she emailed to me.

"I think it was a cardboard box. I didnt see him speaking to police. but i did see the plain clothes detectives standing outside with 2 large brown paper bags at their feet.
I saw a woman walking back from the white pajero. presumably she had put something in there and was walking back to the house. she was a little chubby, i dont know what mumma bwana looks like"
 
Summer breeze....I found the file in which Casey Anthony's defence team tried to stop prosecution from using the forensics hair banding tests. Court ended up allowing this to be used for the first time in Florida.

http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...by Karen Lowe on Post Mortem Hair Banding.pdf

I don't think it will be used in Allison's case as I think I mentioned some time back this type of testing only shows up after around eight hours after death.

I do think forensics would have been testing the hair found in the blood in Captiva for hair colourant. They'd only had the Captiva for eight weeks before her death & a local reported she did have her hair coloured the night she was killed. Forensics would have easily been able to find a hair of hers to compare it, from days prior to her death...perhaps in a brush.

#801 05-06-2012, 11:06 PM
BrookieLocal
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14

For those that are interested, she did have colour put in and she did make her next appointment before she left

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7877853#post7877853"]Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3 - Page 33 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]
 
The trailer was hooked up to the prado. If NBC was just there to meet QPS then why the trailer. It looked empty to me. I do have a blurry photo of the trailer and prado but have no idea how to attach it and its not an exciting photo.

I had a friend with me and I have just asked her what she saw NBC carrying as she was a little more "bolder" than I with the sleuthing. I quote what she emailed to me.

"I think it was a cardboard box. I didnt see him speaking to police. but i did see the plain clothes detectives standing outside with 2 large brown paper bags at their feet.
I saw a woman walking back from the white pajero. presumably she had put something in there and was walking back to the house. she was a little chubby, i dont know what mumma bwana looks like"

Probably there picking up the last of GBC's medals, certificates & awards all bagged up to take away
 
I do think forensics would have been testing the hair found in the blood in Captiva for hair colourant. They'd only had the Captiva for eight weeks before her death & a local reported she did have her hair coloured the night she was killed. Forensics would have easily been able to find a hair of hers from days prior to her death...perhaps in a brush.

I have heard several times that they only had the Captiva for 8 weeks and that it was leased. What I want to know is was it a new vehicle when they leased it and if not, how old was it?
 
IMHO - The reference to the chipped tooth being the only external injury is from the Defense lawyer, who was seeking bail for his client at the time.

Or did I miss something official from QPS? I may very well have.

Anyhow, I found Mr. Davis' words to be quite calculated. A post mortem examination is not an autopsy. If I am not mistaken (Doc Watson?) the post mortem examination is what one can "see" and discern with the bare eyes.

Not to be overly morbid, but the condition of Allison's body probably did not allow for the discovery of other injuries during the initial post mortem examination?

I speculate that there was further wording in the affidavit we have not been privvy to that support my contention that the extent of injuries were not known at that time.

The autopsy will be much more revealing! Again, just my thoughts and opinion.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...mistress-badenclay-case-20120622-20rv6.htmlHO -
<snipped>
A post-mortem examination of Allison Baden-Clay's body revealed no external injuries except a chipped tooth, Mr Davis said.
 
Summer breeze....I found the file in which Casey Anthony's defence team tried to stop prosecution from using the forensics hair banding tests. Court ended up allowing this to be used for the first time in Florida.

http://www.ninthcircuit.org/news/Hi...by Karen Lowe on Post Mortem Hair Banding.pdf

I don't think it will be used in Allison's case as I think I mentioned some time back this type of testing only shows up after around eight hours after death.

I do think forensics would have been testing the hair found in the blood in Captiva for hair colourant. They'd only had the Captiva for eight weeks before her death & a local reported she did have her hair coloured the night she was killed. Forensics would have easily been able to find a hair of hers to compare it, from days prior to her death...perhaps in a brush.

#801 05-06-2012, 11:06 PM
BrookieLocal
Registered User Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 14

For those that are interested, she did have colour put in and she did make her next appointment before she left

Australia - Allison Baden-Clay, 43, Brisbane QLD, 19 April 2012 - #3 - Page 33 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Thank you Marly! Very interesting stuff. Do we know if Allison drove the Captiva the day of her hairdressing appointment?
 
IMHO - The reference to the chipped tooth being the only external injury is from the Defense lawyer, who was seeking bail for his client at the time.

Or did I missing something official from QPS? I may very well have.

Anyhow, I found Mr. Davis' words to be quite calculated. A post mortem examination is not an autopsy. If I am not mistaken (Doc Watson?) the post mortem examination is what one can "see" and discern with the bare eyes.

Not to be overly morbid, but the condition of Allison's body probably did not allow for the discovery of other injuries during the initial post mortem examination?

I speculate that there was further wording in the affidavit we have not been privvy to that supported my contention that the extent of injuries were not known at that time.

The autopsy will be much more revealing! Again, just my thoughts and opinion.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...mistress-badenclay-case-20120622-20rv6.htmlHO -
<snipped>

Yes I agree the autopsy will show so much more....another post from the archives although it's so sad & horrible to read....

#1071 05-24-2012, 11:28 PM
Keyboredom
Registered User Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 323

(possible) This is horrible, but as mentioned by others Allison's body was suggested to be in a very bad way. Nothing to do with missing limbs, but maybe missing organs and flesh from predator activity and/or decomposition. She was identified only by dental records and not required to be ID'ed by a family member. This is quite upsetting but maybe worth backing up previous suggestions. Claimed to come from 2 people - one connected to morgue and one to forensics. I'm not sure what to think as any footage of Allison's body appeared to show clothing kind of intact. Don't really want to dwell on the thoughts.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...ight=Allison's+body+suggested+bad#post7959770
 
Maybe he wouldn't have had to throw it up if there's access to the roof,... for example, railings on a deck...climb on those & drop it into guttering.

OR, possible he could have tossed it up there earlier in the night, grabbed it off Allison if she'd been trying to call someone.

Or maybe he put the phone up in the ceiling cavity? Another thought was that he hid the phone in a wall cavity -there were suggestions of holes in walls early on ....just a thought MOO....:what:
 
Maybe he wouldn't have had to throw it up if there's access to the roof,... for example, railings on a deck...climb on those & drop it into guttering.

OR, possible he could have tossed it up there earlier in the night, grabbed it off Allison if she'd been trying to call someone.

My thought too that the phone was on the roof...a quick after thought....S%^& the phone what to do....!!!!:what::banghead:
 
IMHO - The reference to the chipped tooth being the only external injury is from the Defense lawyer, who was seeking bail for his client at the time.

Or did I miss something official from QPS? I may very well have.

Anyhow, I found Mr. Davis' words to be quite calculated. A post mortem examination is not an autopsy. If I am not mistaken (Doc Watson?) the post mortem examination is what one can "see" and discern with the bare eyes.

Not to be overly morbid, but the condition of Allison's body probably did not allow for the discovery of other injuries during the initial post mortem examination?

I speculate that there was further wording in the affidavit we have not been privvy to that support my contention that the extent of injuries were not known at that time.

The autopsy will be much more revealing! Again, just my thoughts and opinion.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...mistress-badenclay-case-20120622-20rv6.htmlHO -
<snipped>

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ret-until-arrest/story-e6freoof-1226381467054

".....shortly after the grim discovery of her body police had clear views of how how Mrs Baden-Clay died, people close to the case have told The Sunday Mail."

You are correct Summer....they know but only release bits to Defense...her demise was showing CLEARLY TO POLICE after her discovery and websleuths will refocus soon to this fact.
 
Perhaps this visual effect that Police clearly viewed is very simple folks...the KISS theory prevails and come on use our brains....what would we SEE to know that quick...AND RELEASE THE BODY 1 DAY AFTER THE AUTOPSY??
 
Perhaps this visual effect that Police clearly viewed is very simple folks...the KISS theory prevails and come on use our brains....what would we SEE to know that quick...AND RELEASE THE BODY 1 DAY AFTER THE AUTOPSY??

i still think allison was suffocated and drowned in the bath and left with a plastic bag or pillowcase over her head. this would be immediately obvious to police. her tooth possibly chipped on the bath or tap in her struggle and all the scratches on gbcs face chest and arms. my opinion only.
 
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ret-until-arrest/story-e6freoof-1226381467054

".....shortly after the grim discovery of her body police had clear views of how how Mrs Baden-Clay died, people close to the case have told The Sunday Mail."

<snipped>her demise was showing CLEARLY TO POLICE after her discovery <snipped>

Exactly Berry! This statement alone leads me to believe that there is other evidence to corroborate the charge of murder, aside from Allison's body itself.

My opinion only.
 
i still think allison was suffocated and drowned in the bath and left with a plastic bag or pillowcase over her head. this would be immediately obvious to police. her tooth possibly chipped on the bath or tap in her struggle and all the scratches on gbcs face chest and arms. my opinion only.

Good point, I was very surprised she was released for burial so soon too. The PM findings would have to have been clear. Even unsuspicious death PMs can take longer.
 
IMHO - The reference to the chipped tooth being the only external injury is from the Defense lawyer, who was seeking bail for his client at the time.

Or did I missing something official from QPS? I may very well have.

Anyhow, I found Mr. Davis' words to be quite calculated. A post mortem examination is not an autopsy. If I am not mistaken (Doc Watson?) the post mortem examination is what one can "see" and discern with the bare eyes.

Not to be overly morbid, but the condition of Allison's body probably did not allow for the discovery of other injuries during the initial post mortem examination?

I speculate that there was further wording in the affidavit we have not been privvy to that support my contention that the extent of injuries were not known at that time.

The autopsy will be much more revealing! Again, just my thoughts and opinion.

http://news.smh.com.au/breaking-new...mistress-badenclay-case-20120622-20rv6.htmlHO -
<snipped>

OH WOW!!! Blown away! You know the 'Law' Summer Breeze - very well it appears! BUT just as importantly, you are also very 'into' and obviously care quite a bit about Allison and what happened to her ......... so special!

Yes Summer, was the chipped tooth verified by QPS - not sure now?! I think it was only mentioned by the defense.

But surely even the post mortem examination would have included more than just a chipped tooth ....... considering 10 days of battery with creek beds, muddy banks, snags, rocks, branches and low lying trees. This is not to mention the impact of insects, bush animals or even water preditors such as bull sharks. Wouldn't these injuries/attacks be seen with the bare eye, as per post mortem?!

So would have the entire post mortem results (obviously not complete autopsy at this point) or only part of these have to be handed over to defense eg chipped tooth only?????

Yes! Can't wait for the complete autopsy! It's driving us crazy.

But then again, half of me says I don't want the awful details.
 
OH WOW!!! Blown away! You know the 'Law' Summer Breeze - very well it appears! BUT just as importantly, you are also very 'into' and obviously care quite a bit about Allison and what happened to her ......... so special!

Yes Summer, was the chipped tooth verified by QPS - not sure now?! I think it was only mentioned by the defense.

But surely even the post mortem examination would have included more than just a chipped tooth ....... considering 10 days of battery with creek beds, muddy banks, snags, rocks, branches and low lying trees. This is not to mention the impact of insects, bush animals or even water preditors such as bull sharks. Wouldn't these injuries/attacks be seen with the bare eye, as per post mortem?!

So would have the entire post mortem results (obviously not complete autopsy at this point) or only part of these have to be handed over to defense eg chipped tooth only?????

Yes! Can't wait for the complete autopsy! It's driving us crazy.

But then again, half of me says I don't want the awful details.

Be prepared there are more awful details to summount....It is a shocker...:jail:
 
OH WOW!!! Blown away! You know the 'Law' Summer Breeze - very well it appears! BUT just as importantly, you are also very 'into' and obviously care quite a bit about Allison and what happened to her ......... so special!

Yes Summer, was the chipped tooth verified by QPS - not sure now?! I think it was only mentioned by the defense.

But surely even the post mortem examination would have included more than just a chipped tooth ....... considering 10 days of battery with creek beds, muddy banks, snags, rocks, branches and low lying trees. This is not to mention the impact of insects, bush animals or even water preditors such as bull sharks. Wouldn't these injuries/attacks be seen with the bare eye, as per post mortem?!

So would have the entire post mortem results (obviously not complete autopsy at this point) or only part of these have to be handed over to defense eg chipped tooth only?????

Yes! Can't wait for the complete autopsy! It's driving us crazy.

But then again, half of me says I don't want the awful details.

Great questions Bellgirl! Discovery of other injuries was poor wording on my part. I should have said, determination that the external injuries noted were attributable to alleged murder.

I think, for me, the problem becomes which of the damage is from alleged murder, and which injuries are post-mortem and not directly attributable to the alleged murder. The prosecution avoiding making any definitive (public) statements when the autopsy results have not been completed is wise.

I do believe Allison had a chipped tooth and I also believe this was mentioned in the affidavit. I have just not seen a QPS declaration that this was the only "external injury".

If I recall correctly, the autopsy results are due to be handed over to the defense on/by August 20.

PS - You are sweet, but my knowledge of law is very limited! I rely on our wonderful members for clarification!
 
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