17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #14

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jjenny said:
I don't think he changed clothes because he still was wearing red jacket when he arrived at the police station.
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I don't think he changed clothes either... My post was in reply to someone wanting to know IF it was a possibility LE had allowed him to change clothes...

JMHO
 
New doubts over Trayvon shooter's claims

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...e-zimmerman-following-trayvon-martin-shooting

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Further questions emerged Thursday over the circumstances of Florida teen Trayvon Martin's murder.

An unnamed witness, speaking on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," said the entirety of the scuffle he saw between Martin and George Zimmerman took place on grass, challenging the neighborhood watch volunteer's claim that the teen had smashed his head against a sidewalk after punching him in the face -- causing him to shoot in self-defense.

In reference to the size difference between Zimmerman and Martin, the witness described the fight as being between a "larger man" and a "boy." While the witness said he was not able to see who was on top as the two scuffled, he said "there wasn't a lot of movement" immediately before he heard a gunshot.

Zimmerman "didn't appear hurt" as he walked away, he added, and he didn't see any blood on him.
 
Here's the problem I have with the initial account given to TM's Dad, which he rightfully thinks is preposterous. In this account there are two meetings. The first is while GZ is in his truck. Then GZ supposedly gets out of the truck and the second meeting occurs which ends in TM's death. We know GZ was talking to the dispatcher while he was in the truck -- so where in this initial account is that conversation between GZ and the dispatcher?

What detectives told Trayvon’s father

Detectives gave Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, an account of the events that Mr. Martin finds hard to believe. Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, was told that Trayvon approached Mr. Zimmerman twice. First, he walked up to Mr. Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Mr. Zimmerman denied following him. Trayvon walked away, and Mr. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Trayvon then approached him from behind a building and said, “What’s your problem, homie?” Mr. Zimmerman said he did not have a problem, and Trayvon attacked him. Trayvon hit Mr. Zimmerman and pinned him to the ground. Mr. Zimmerman pulled his gun as he was being beat and fired one shot. “You got me,” Trayvon said, falling back.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ayvons-death/2012/03/28/gIQA6MKhhS_story.html
 
Reader said:
New doubts over Trayvon shooter's claims

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...e-zimmerman-following-trayvon-martin-shooting

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Further questions emerged Thursday over the circumstances of Florida teen Trayvon Martin's murder.

An unnamed witness, speaking on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," said the entirety of the scuffle he saw between Martin and George Zimmerman took place on grass, challenging the neighborhood watch volunteer's claim that the teen had smashed his head against a sidewalk after punching him in the face -- causing him to shoot in self-defense.

In reference to the size difference between Zimmerman and Martin, the witness described the fight as being between a "larger man" and a "boy." While the witness said he was not able to see who was on top as the two scuffled, he said "there wasn't a lot of movement" immediately before he heard a gunshot.

Zimmerman "didn't appear hurt" as he walked away, he added, and he didn't see any blood on him.
Click to expand...
They had already been arguing and fighting for a while before that witness started paying attention, though.
 
Chris_Texas said:
Depends where he was parked. From his call it sounds as if he is close to the clubhouse, and that is perhaps where he parked and got out. If so, unless he was an olympic athlete he must have continued his pursuit after hanging up the phone.

No matter how you measure it, it seems impossible that in the ten seconds or so he was running, that he made it all the way from the general area of the clubhouse, past the corner of the building, then PAST TM, before turning back towards his vehicle (where, according to some claims) he was allegedly ambushed.

In my opinion.

Again in my opinion, he called while running, stopped when LE asked him to (you can hear this) then after he hung up he went back to pursuing TM, finally catching him on the back walk.

I suspect that TM saw him coming and tried to get away, dodging off the sidewalk and onto the grass, probably pleeding for help as he went. I wouldn't be surprised (speculation) if GZ didn't slip on the wet grass, probably red-lining his rage even more. THIS one wasn't gonna get away.

Further, I think there was no real fight. There was far too much pleading for that. Fighting is exhausting. In my opinion this was essentially an execution. I think, mmo, that GZ pulled his gun, cornered TM, TM was begging for his life, GZ decided to kill him, GZ yelled for help once and shot him.

In my opinion of course.
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BBM.. IMHO too...
 
Wise Old Owl said:
I wish we could get at least an idea of how long LE was at the scene that night. We know GZ was taken to the station 35 minutes after the shooting. And we know that TM's dad was home 10:45 - 11:00 and said there was no sign of anything by then.

So, how long where they there? Residents would know - I bet even some of them stood out there and watched them. It does take some time for the CSI techs to take all the pictures and bag and tag the evidence. But really what evidence? Only thing on that partial police report taken into evidence was the gun.

Years ago - when we had a neighbor commit suicide - man, they were there for a good 4 - 5 hours. And what evidence would they have had to collect there as well? She used a gun and just sat down in a chair. I do know it did take a while for the ME to show up.

That's another thing - we haven't heard when the ME got there or anything. But the time frame we've been given just doesn't sit right with me. How could they have done all they need to do in that short of time?

And,

And,

Where is Trayvon's phone?




JMHO
Click to expand...

Several months ago we also had a neighbor commit suicide. He was an older man, lived alone. He called 911 at 6:00am and said he was going to shoot himself, hung up the phone and shot himself. Officers were there within 10 - 15 minutes and they stayed about 6 hours. ME was there within 1 hour of the 911 call and stayed at least 2 hours.
 
TonyGatto said:
Here's the problem I have with the initial account given to TM's Dad, which he rightfully thinks is preposterous. In this account there are two meetings. The first is while GZ is in his truck. Then GZ supposedly gets out of the truck and the second meeting occurs which ends in TM's death. We know GZ was talking to the dispatcher while he was in the truck -- so where in this initial account is that conversation between GZ and the dispatcher?

What detectives told Trayvon’s father

Detectives gave Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, an account of the events that Mr. Martin finds hard to believe. Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, was told that Trayvon approached Mr. Zimmerman twice. First, he walked up to Mr. Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Mr. Zimmerman denied following him. Trayvon walked away, and Mr. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Trayvon then approached him from behind a building and said, “What’s your problem, homie?” Mr. Zimmerman said he did not have a problem, and Trayvon attacked him. Trayvon hit Mr. Zimmerman and pinned him to the ground. Mr. Zimmerman pulled his gun as he was being beat and fired one shot. “You got me,” Trayvon said, falling back.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ayvons-death/2012/03/28/gIQA6MKhhS_story.html
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One of the many reasons they did not want to release those 911 tapes and fought it so hard. IMO
 
Chris_Texas said:
Depends where he was parked. From his call it sounds as if he is close to the clubhouse, and that is perhaps where he parked and got out. If so, unless he was an olympic athlete he must have continued his pursuit after hanging up the phone.

No matter how you measure it, it seems impossible that in the ten seconds or so he was running, that he made it all the way from the general area of the clubhouse, past the corner of the building, then PAST TM, before turning back towards his vehicle (where, according to some claims) he was allegedly ambushed.
Click to expand...

Unofficially he was not parked near the clubhouse when he exited his truck, he was parked near the cut off that led behind the building. Here's the unofficial photo showing the locations and positions I'm looking at. It should enlarge a couple times.

street-view-overhead1.jpg
 
i.b.nora said:
Good accounting of his story here: http://www.themadisontimes.com/news_details.php?news_id=1875

Trayvon Martin's parents re-live a 'nightmare'
by George E. Curry, NNPA Special Contributor
March 28, 2012
Click to expand...

"Tracy Martin was unaware that his honor roll son, who was visiting from Miami, had been killed around 7 p.m. that Sunday.

I had been out to dinner. When we got back between 10:15 and 10:45, he wasn’t at home. The night before, he had been to the movies with my nephew, who had recently moved up to the Orlando area from Miami. Every time Trayvon would come up here, they would find something to do, usually they would go to dinner.

But the next morning, the day Martin and his son had planned to return to Miami, he learned that Trayvon still wasn’t back in the house."

All news to me. I thought Trayvon had just gotten there. He went out to "dinner" with the 20 year old cousin the night before? :waitasec:
 
vlpate said:
"Tracy Martin was unaware that his honor roll son, who was visiting from Miami, had been killed around 7 p.m. that Sunday.

I had been out to dinner. When we got back between 10:15 and 10:45, he wasn’t at home. The night before, he had been to the movies with my nephew, who had recently moved up to the Orlando area from Miami. Every time Trayvon would come up here, they would find something to do, usually they would go to dinner.

But the next morning, the day Martin and his son had planned to return to Miami, he learned that Trayvon still wasn’t back in the house."

All news to me. I thought Trayvon had just gotten there. He went out to "dinner" with the 20 year old cousin the night before? :waitasec:
Click to expand...

If he went to movies night before shooting, why would the dad think that he went again the next night?When he didn't come home all night. Probably has nothing to do with what happened but it does make you question if the truth is being told IMO. I also thought he had not been there long,just realized he was going home the next morning.
 
TonyGatto said:
Here's the problem I have with the initial account given to TM's Dad, which he rightfully thinks is preposterous. In this account there are two meetings. The first is while GZ is in his truck. Then GZ supposedly gets out of the truck and the second meeting occurs which ends in TM's death. We know GZ was talking to the dispatcher while he was in the truck -- so where in this initial account is that conversation between GZ and the dispatcher?

What detectives told Trayvon’s father

Detectives gave Tracy Martin, Trayvon’s father, an account of the events that Mr. Martin finds hard to believe. Trayvon's father, Tracy Martin, was told that Trayvon approached Mr. Zimmerman twice. First, he walked up to Mr. Zimmerman’s vehicle and asked why he was following him. Mr. Zimmerman denied following him. Trayvon walked away, and Mr. Zimmerman got out of his vehicle. Trayvon then approached him from behind a building and said, “What’s your problem, homie?” Mr. Zimmerman said he did not have a problem, and Trayvon attacked him. Trayvon hit Mr. Zimmerman and pinned him to the ground. Mr. Zimmerman pulled his gun as he was being beat and fired one shot. “You got me,” Trayvon said, falling back.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ayvons-death/2012/03/28/gIQA6MKhhS_story.html
Click to expand...


This my favorite from around the same time. LE told Mr. Martin that Zimmerman had a squeaky clean record. When Mr. Martin found out the truth he was not happy.



LE admitted they told him that but they were just relaying what Zimmerman told them LOL I can not think of one reason they would feel they needed to tell Mr. Martin that. Makes no sense at all.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf





Why was George Zimmerman labeled as “squeaky clean” when in fact he has
a prior arrest history?
In one of the initial meetings with the father of the victim the investigator related to
him the account that Mr. Zimmerman provided of the incident. At that time the
investigator said that Mr. Zimmerman portrayed himself to be “squeaky clean”. We
are aware of the background information regarding both individuals involved in this
event. We believe Mr. Martin may have misconstrued this information.



......................................................................

So they knew right from the start they had a liar on their hands ..............turn him lose!
 
The Events Leading to the Shooting of Trayvon Martin

An interactive with witness accounts
911 call recordings

Seven 911 calls were made by residents near the scene offering varying accounts.


http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...yvon-martin.html?scp=4&sq=mary cutcher&st=cse


“They're wrestling right in the back of my porch ... There’s a black guy down and it looks like he’s been shot and he’s dead.”

— Male voice


“I looked out my window and there’s a guy on top with a white T-shirt ... I couldn’t see the person he was on.”

— Female voice


“Someone’s yelling two doors down from me, screaming, hollering help help help … And I thought I heard like a gunshot.”

— Female voice


“There’s a black guy standing up over him.”

— Female voice


“I saw a man laying on the ground that needed help that was screaming … then I heard a loud sound and the screams stopped.”

— 13-year-old boy
 
Chris_Texas said:
We actually have pretty solid evidence that Zimmerman's injuries were very minor.

1. We can see what he looks like 30 minutes later

2. The officers handling him aren't wearing gloves -- they know he doesn't have blood on him.
Click to expand...

according to some the Sanford Police is incompetent so wouldn't it stand to reason they wouldn't wear gloves even if he had blood him....JMHO,,,,besides that we see the one officer wiping something off on his pants after he touches the back of GZ.....
 
Peliman said:
Assuming for a minute the street view overhead is correct and listening to the 911 tape. GZ is talking to the LE dispatch describing his version. At some point he gets out of his truck to follow after Trayvon.

We know where GZ's truck is, my question is would he have enough time to reach the back of the building where the dispatcher tells him "we don't want you to do that." Was it a reasonable amount of time?

Hope I asked that right.

ETA: The LE dispatch call by GZ. George Zimmerman 911 call about Trayvon Martin UnRedacted - YouTube
Click to expand...

Timeline using this news article - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2017887566_trayvonmartinfacts02.html

7:11pm - GZ in his truck spots TM. GZ calls 911.
7:12pm - TM girlfriend calls him.
7:15pm - after 3 mins & 50 seconds, GZ hangs up with 911.
7:16pm - TM's phone call disconnects.
7:16pm - witness calls to 911 start. There are a total of 7.
---

imo - yes, he did have time.
 
m00c0w said:
They had already been arguing and fighting for a while before that witness started paying attention, though.
Click to expand...

What in the word does the length of their fighting have to do with ...

1.) WHERE they were fighting?

2.) Who was the bigger guy?

3.) Or the fact that the witness says that Zimmerman did NOT appear to be hurt or bloody?
 
Peliman said:
Unofficially he was not parked near the clubhouse when he exited his truck, he was parked near the cut off that led behind the building. Here's the unofficial photo showing the locations and positions I'm looking at. It should enlarge a couple times.

View attachment 21392
Click to expand...

Thanks. I have seen that. But... in the 911 call he initially describes TM as being "near the clubhouse" and he says that TM is looking at him and coming toward him. It seems a bit hard to believe that TM would have been able to see GZ parked where it is marked on the map or that he would pay any attention to him if he did see him at that distance.

It is possible that GZ was driving slowly after him, and that this is what prompted TM to run, and it was at this point that GZ parked and got out.
 
FL.Gave GZ a gun permit they also gave him a ccp, Those charges he had were expunged.So if he never was convicted he has a clean record or did FL make a big mistake giving him a CCP and a gun permit?
 
Reader said:
New doubts over Trayvon shooter's claims

http://www.myfoxorlando.com/dpp/new...e-zimmerman-following-trayvon-martin-shooting

SANFORD, Fla. (WOFL FOX 35) - Further questions emerged Thursday over the circumstances of Florida teen Trayvon Martin's murder.

An unnamed witness, speaking on CNN's "Anderson Cooper 360," said the entirety of the scuffle he saw between Martin and George Zimmerman took place on grass, challenging the neighborhood watch volunteer's claim that the teen had smashed his head against a sidewalk after punching him in the face -- causing him to shoot in self-defense.

In reference to the size difference between Zimmerman and Martin, the witness described the fight as being between a "larger man" and a "boy." While the witness said he was not able to see who was on top as the two scuffled, he said "there wasn't a lot of movement" immediately before he heard a gunshot.

Zimmerman "didn't appear hurt" as he walked away, he added, and he didn't see any blood on him.
Click to expand...

But he did not see the beginning of the scuffle.
 
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