"Lost Girls" author Bob Kolker on Tricia's True Crime Radio Sun Oct 6th 8 PM EST

Fireweed said:

There is something just so absolutely rotten about this whole case.

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Ain't that the TRUTH!!!

Welcome to the forum

I wonder, has anyone questioned the John that Shannan had a date with that night in Manhattan? Also, who did Shannan and Brewer buy drugs from that night? Just wondering...

I listened to Kolker's interview on the True Murder podcast today and I have to point something out that I feel a lot of people on this forum get wrong: a person can be in an extreme state of paranoia from drug use and still be "rational." Believe me this happened to me before (many lifetimes ago). You are very paranoid, but for some reason, you are only "irrational" in the sense that you are paranoid. Like, you would think to call the cops. You also are paranoid about the most bizarre things. Like I was totally freaked out that my roommate was going to come home and catch me ironing all my clothes. I could definitely see someone taking too much speed or crystal meth and thinking that someone was out to get them. I could also see that person doing "rational" things in the face of that, like calling or running for help. When you are in a state of drug-induced paranoia, your mind is completely focused on that, to the point where I think it would be perfectly reasonable for that person to call 911, or barricade themselves in a room or something.

Also, when you have taken that many drugs, you will very often feel overheated, or feel the need to cool down in water. I really could see someone taking off some of their clothes at that moment.

I do not know what happened to Shannan that night, but I just wanted to clear some things up about drug-induced paranoia. Your mind is not "scattered" in this state; quite the contrary - it is hyper focused. You're just paranoid, not stupid. You would still know to call 911 or run for help.

Welcome, Fireweed. The Manhattan John has never been looked into AFAIK.

I visited the area for the first time recently. I don't know exactly where Shannan's remains were found, so I can't speak to that, but the brush does look more impenetrable in real life than it does on Google Maps.

Yes I have never been there in real life. I can only say that when I was a kid in Alaska, we hacked our way through some pretty nasty marshes that were much bigger than that one. You certainly could not search it your street clothes, but I am baffled as to why no one went out there properly suited up and went searching for Shannan, or for any evidence that she was there. I guess I just see not searching the marsh for a year as another part of the total complacency that oozes all over this case.

Original news reports said that LE used a helicopter, that first day to search for Shannan.

I was under the impression that she was not searched for at all that first day after she went missing.

Aleph said:

It would prove that he did intend to "watch [Melissa's] body rot." Ugh. And he would have already done so with Maureen.

If he did keep the first bodies for years while accumulating more, we're looking at a loner or someone rich enough to have an unusual amount of privacy. So why suddenly unload all the bodies after killing two women in rapid succession? Did his circumstances change or did he feel out of control after killing Amber?

He was sloppy with Amber when he asked her to meet him at the same motel from which he'd abducted Megan earlier in the summer. Maybe he was careless with Amber in other ways. I wonder if there were unexplained reports of women screaming elsewhere on Long Island, around the time of Amber's disappearance.

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I finally got around to reading the book. So thought I would read threw the thread now. So I know you posted this awhile ago and this is kind of random...but bare with me here.

This might be a little out there. But maybe just maybe his need to dump the bodies was because an escort went running from his house screaming and calling 911. Dumb the two down at GB then dump SG in a different location. Then kill a few more escorts to put with the other two to throw everyone off. Just a thought I've pondered for a long time now.

giagreen said:

I finally got around to reading the book. So thought I would read threw the thread now. So I know you posted this awhile ago and this is kind of random...but bare with me here.

This might be a little out there. But maybe just maybe his need to dump the bodies was because an escort went running from his house screaming and calling 911. Dumb the two down at GB then dump SG in a different location. Then kill a few more escorts to put with the other two to throw everyone off. Just a thought I've pondered for a long time now.

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Whoa, I never thought of it from that angle.

Yeah I don't know. I've just had this thought for a long time. But just seems kind of out there. But yet it's the only thing I can make sense of when it comes to tying SG to the GB4.

Something scared SG. Something made her think that someone was going to kill her.
So kill her. Make it look like an accident. Take the bone one would need to be able to tell how she died.

Put the other two bodies down a few miles. And who knows. Maybe once someone realized that LE could of cared less he thought he could get away with killing a few more and did just that. Then it got discovered.

Someone put the doctor up to call MG. I don't care what anyone says. Who would know him well enough to know he would involve him self?

Something isn't right with JB. And if SG seen some dead escorts pretty sure that would be a good enough reason to assume MP would have to be in on it. Could explain the "their plotting to kill me" if that is what she even said.

IDK I'm sure this is all just crazy talk. But, at this point anything is possible.

I have wondered if Shannon was asked to participate in some type of choking/sex game, that got out of hand. At some point she realized "they weren't playing!"

ginestra said:

I have wondered if Shannon was asked to participate in some type of choking/sex game, that got out of hand. At some point she realized "they weren't playing!"

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I've wondered that also. But I don't think that JB would do anything for real with MP out in the car waiting for SG.

So then I have always tried to connect MP and JB together in the murders. But even as sketchy as MP is I don't think they worked together.

If...IF SG is connected to GB4 at all then it has to be somebody from OB. Just has to be.

Maybe everyone has spent so much time reading into all the little tiny things to the point the most obvious suspect has been over looked. It would be more then possible. He had the time, the place, and fits the white guy who is calm and iin control profile.

MP's behavior is very suspicious. It "seems" he has something to hide, but I don't feel it was murder. Maybe he left for a bit , when he was supposed to of stayed?
The police, they seem suspicious as well, especially with Shannon's case. I think whoever is involved with this was getting away without much attention, until Shannon. It feels the police keep trying to downplay, sweep under the rug, etc, her death.

One of our locals went to see the house when it was for sale. When touring the house, it was said that some sketchy guy and possibly a girlfriend were "staying" in the basement. Our member said the house had an overwhelming smell. (All from memory...)

SG saw something in that house that scared the living day lights out of her. It scared her enough to run, in the dark, out and into or at least toward the bramble filled marsh.

Well, was it just me or did JB say some things in Kolker's book that were some what alarming? Maybe I am just taking things out of context or reading into things to much.

The last few things that he said didn't add up to me. I mean he would let what happen again if he had to? Let the murders happen? Let SG get so scared she ran into a marsh and died? Something isn't right IMO.

But I read that before that his house smelt like cat pee from someone who had went to go view the house when it was up for sale. I'm not sure tho if I believe that people were staying in the basement. If anyone was in the basement I think it was MB and MBB. But that's just my view from where I stand. I could be way wrong and JB could just be an average dude who likes escorts and had bad luck with one who was drugged out of her mind. I doubt it...but it could be.

Here's a great interview with Mr. Kolker that I had not seen yet. There is a whole series Parts 1-4 that I hadn't seen about Internet Escorts. I'm still watching - on part two now!
Maybe y'all have seen this already!

The interview is in part 4 of this series on youtube - on the right you will find part 4... sorry I can't link directly to it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN8RC8hh4pU

Really not a whole lot of new information, but still somewhat interesting.

I am not entirely buying the argument that legalizing prostitution would prevent something like this. I think that whether legal or not, prostitution would still be just as dangerous for women like the LISK women who worked independently.

BTW, in Amsterdam where it is legal, they still have a major problem with trafficking. Most women working the red light district there have been trafficked from other countries. I am little sick of this argument that legalization will somehow make prostitution magically safe and fair to women. It won't.

In a woman-hating culture, prostitution will never be safe.

Aleph said:

In a woman-hating culture, prostitution will never be safe.

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Yup. It is just a ridiculous fantasy that legal prostitution makes is safe. There are very few "normal" women who choose prostitution as a career. It is the vocation of the addicted and despondent. It is for women who are poor and desperate (MBB is the classic case). I lived in Germany for years (where prostitution is legal), and most of the prostitutes there are trafficked from Eastern Europe. Legal prostitution is still a crime against women. I do not care what people say: there are very few women who are freely and independently working as prostitutes in places where it is legal.

Would legalized prostitution have saved any of the LISK women? I don't think so. I cannot think of a way that it would have. These women where very openly working as prostitutes. The reason they were targeted by LISK was not because they were prostitutes; it is because they were women who were willing to get into a car with a stranger in the middle of the night. Making that activity legal will not change the fact that serial killers target prostitutes because "normal" women will not get into a car with a man they do not know.

Like when I lived in Germany I lived next to Tiergarten in Berlin, a very large city park. At night, prostitutes would stand on the street there. I sometimes would walk by them and see them getting into cars with men. It was legal for them to do so, but anything could have happened to those women. There were no cops out there writing down the plate number or anything. Those women were still totally on their own and were still taking a really big risk. They would not be prosecuted for hooking, but that was pretty much their only protection. As far as I could tell, when it came to getting raped, murdered, beaten, etc, those women were in no better position that a prostitute in NYC. They had better recourse after the fact, but they were still in a very high risk profession.

Aleph said:

It also suggests that he considers Gilgo Beach to be a safe distance away from wherever his home base is. That makes me wonder about Hauppage.

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I saw the GMA interview with Lynn Barthelemy. It makes me think The Bx is a safe distance from Gigo Beach.

deedee21 said:

I saw the GMA interview with Lynn Barthelemy. It makes me think The Bx is a safe distance from Gigo Beach.

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Might be worth to put on those biohazard gloves and dig thru the filthy std ridden freakshow that is utopiaguide for posts by johns who frequent that area of the BX