17 yo Trayvon Martin Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #15

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jjenny said:
Yep, stalking is repeatedly following someone.
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It's only one word in the statute, but it means a lot in whether someone is guilty of stalking or not.
 
ThoughtFox said:
FBI Questions People on Scene in Martin Case

SANFORD, Fla. -- FBI agents on Monday were questioning potential witnesses in the Trayvon Martin shooting, confirming to NBC News that the agency had begun a "parallel investigation" that focuses on whether the teen's civil rights were violated.

Agents are seeking information on George Zimmerman's background and whether he was racially motivated when he pursued Martin after calling a 911 police dispatcher about his presence in the community, an FBI official told NBC.

The agents were at the Retreat at Twin Lakes, where Martin was shot dead by Zimmerman, the gated community's neighborhood watch captain.
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"The call sheets show that five of seven phone calls Zimmerman had made since last August involved what he viewed as suspicious activity by young men identified as "black males." But the call sheets do not indicate whether Zimmerman was asked about the race of the suspects or volunteered that information."

Many of these calls are backed up by eye witness accounts using the same descriptions and documented in separate police reports (linked often in these threads). I find it hard to believe the FBI would only go back to August - clearly, prior to August, there were descriptions of white and Hispanic individuals as well. The rash of burglaries and break-ins escalated in August - eyewitness statements pointed to young black males. As far as the residents who stated Zimmerman had warned them of black males committing crimes in their gated community - he was telling the truth, no profiling.

My guess is the FBI has enhanced the 911 tape and found no racial slur. <Modsnip>
JMO
 
TorisMom003 said:
The original post on this conversation that I responded to says that from the 911 call GZ saw him acting suspicious before he could even tell he was AA. My question was what part of the call with the dispatcher (since technically it was not a 911 call) explains the suspicious manner in which Trayvon was acting. One would think that when reporting someone that is acting suspicious that the person reporting would give reasons why they feel the suspect is acting suspicious. From what Zimmerman said on that call I heard nothing that would lead someone to think that Trayvon was up to no good.

MOO
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IMO The dispatcher was satisfied with GZ description of what he deemed suspicious.They were sending out officers, IMO If the dispatcher felt GZ was over the top being suspicious of TMmore questions would have been asked of GZ. JMO
 
csziggy said:
The Miami Herald has it wrong.

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

Page 4 Officer Timothy Smith wrote: "While I was was in such close contact with Zimmerman, I could observe that his back appeared to be wet and was covered in grass, as if he had been laying on his back on the ground. Zimmerman was also bleeding from the nose and back of his head."

How much I believe any report from the Sanford Police is my opinion, but that comment is in the report.
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Are we sure that this is the FIRST police report and not the revised version?
 
TorisMom003 said:
And I contend that Zimmerman followed Trayvon twice that night. Once in his truck and once on foot. Zimmerman was also told that he did NOT need to follow Trayvon and yet continued to do so. If Zimmerman had been walking back to his truck as he and his family, friends, lawyer claim then Trayvon would not have been killed where he was.

MOO
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The statute doesn't say anything about the method used to follow someone. By truck or on foot, it was the same incident.
 
iluvmua said:
No, he's taking the first encounter and then adding in that his son was dead from walking home only with skittles and iced tea.

All the other stuff he's leaving out.
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You think Tracy Martin is saying that his son 'was dead from ONLY walking home with skittles and iced tea'? I'm thinking he's saying it was from the gun GZ was carrying.
 
Dr.Fessel said:
• Initial police reports never mentioned that Zimmerman had a bloody nose or a wet shirt that showed evidence of a struggle. Attorneys for the dead teen’s family believe the information was added in a second report to justify the lack of an arrest.

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/...cpy#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy#storylink=cpy



Exactly what I believe.
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That is incorrect - see Officer Timothy Smith's report on page 4 third paragraph here: http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report.pdf

IMO much of the report was created after the fact. But what is labeled by the City of Sanford PD as "Twin Lakes Shooting Initial Report" does include information about GZ's damp back and bloody nose and back of the head.
 
jjenny said:
Yep, stalking is repeatedly following someone.
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Not always repeatedly. All they have to do is fear:

&#8220;Credible threat&#8221; means a threat made with the intent to cause the person who is the target of the threat to reasonably fear for his or her safety. The threat must be against the life of, or a threat to cause bodily injury to, a person."

That could be once. Clearly TM was GZ target and he was following him. jmo
 
mikeysmommom said:
IMO The dispatcher was satisfied with GZ description of what he deemed suspicious.They were sending out officers, IMO If the dispatcher felt GZ was over the top being suspicious of TMmore questions would have been asked of GZ. JMO
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GZ knew how to tell 911 or whoever he called what they wanted to hear!
 
LambChop said:
/quote/ The initial aggressor. The person that made the first aggressive move. Following someone is not aggressive. If Zimmerman grabbed Martin, Martin would be able to defend himself and Zimmerman would not be protected via the law. If Martin really just hauled off and punched Zimmerman and then pinned him to the ground, Martin would be the initial aggressor and would not be protected via the law. /quote/

I can aggree if he did not call LE and he was just following someone from a safe distance to see what they were doing. But he knows he was not to follow....he should know not to follow because he had a gun. What if he lost control...the gun was not secured to a belt, it was holstered in his pants. The instrunction by LE, and the reason LE does not want citizens getting involved is because they get hurt. They put their lives and others in jeopardy when they take matters into their own hands. GZ did this. He essentially ignored what he knew to do, ignored what LE had told him, ignored his better judgment and followed TM without any justifiable cause. At that point he was stalking. TM had done nothing wrong. It was GZ's suspicion, no one else's, and the incident would have been resolved.

GZ literally made a crime scene out of an innocent walk home of a minor. He did it without consideration of those around him and with total disregard to the community he lives in. He did it for self-serving reasons, to feed an ego. There was no one to protect. There was no one calling out for help because they were in distress. GZ made a life altering decision with total disregard for the person he was after. How can he justify following when he knows he was not suppose to. You can't say he has a right to follow because according to LE you don't because of the fact you are endangering others.

GZ irresponsible behavior put the wheels in motion. He lost control of a nightmare he started the minute he stepped from his vehicle. jmo
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BBM

Following someone is not aggressive? I disagree. It might not be illegal, though I suspect following a child is in many places, but it is without a doubt both aggressive and threatening. I bet you would be frightened if someone was simply following you in your car, I know I would, let alone having some creepy dude driving and then running after you at night in the rain. In all honesty, I am a guy who's been in more fights than Zimmerman has years, and even so that would scare the heeby jeebies out of me. I'd figure the next BTK was after me. I cannot imagine how freaked out I would have been as a kid.

The person in this case who had every reason to be afraid was TM. He was the one being followed, he was the one alone in the rain, unarmed. Zimmerman was the guy with the car and gun following him.

What Zimmerman's defenders seem to want to claim is that he had the right to pursue anyone he liked (which he did), scare the hell out of them (which he did), ignore police instructions to stop (which he did), and if his prey became frightened enough to defend themselves (which might have happened), Zimmerman could then legally kick their butts (if he could) or kill them (if he failed)...

And either way call it self defense. It's ridiculous in my opinion.

If TM waited in ambush and brained Zimmerman with a brick as he went slinking past, Trayvon would be correctly able to claim self defense. He RAN and the guy kept following him, he hid and the guy tried to hunt him down.
 
So you can legally stalk and harass someone in Florida as long as you kill them the first time so you don't get a chance to repeat it?
 
LambChop said:
Not always repeatedly. All they have to do is fear:

“Credible threat” means a threat made with the intent to cause the person who is the target of the threat to reasonably fear for his or her safety. The threat must be against the life of, or a threat to cause bodily injury to, a person."

That could be once. jmo
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Yes that's the definition of credible threat as it is applied to this part of the stalking statute.
(3)&#8195;Any person who willfully, maliciously, and repeatedly follows, harasses, or cyberstalks another person, and makes a credible threat with the intent to place that person in reasonable fear of death or bodily injury of the person, or the person’s child, sibling, spouse, parent, or dependent, commits the offense of aggravated stalking, a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.
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Notice the word "repeatedly" is used again. If someone makes a credible threat while stalking someone, it changes from a misdemeanor to a felony.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes...ing&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.048.html
 
LambChop said:
Showing my ignorance here but I have no idea what ethnic names a young black man would have for someone hispanic but is it homie? Not asking for specifics just that GZ does look more hispanic than say Irish so would TM have called him homie?? Kids today are into new phrases every day so is this one still popular, homie, I mean.
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I have a 15 year old. I don't ever hear homie anymore - seems like it was used more in my youth than it is now. It seems like it was replaced with the n-word - not in the racist sense, but like "my n-word". You know?

When I first read that I thought it sounded like GZ may watch too many crime drama shows.
 
mikeysmommom said:
IMO Seeing how quickly this has become a racial issue instead of just a sloppy police investigation racial tensions must be very high in FL.IMO When TM decided to confront GZ saying Whats your problem or Why are you following me as per TM GF Perhaps TM felt he was being singled out because he was AA and that led to him punching GZ.JMO.

Here in NJ there was a white officer sitting in his patrol car,he asked an AA 19 yr old to his car and asked what's up he knew him,AA 18 or 19 yr old pulled out his gun and blasted the officer.The officer did not have a chance to even draw his gun.No one ever turned it into a racial bias killing.Not the police ,not the officers family.
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What does AA stand for in your context?
TIA
 
Badlands said:
It's in that report, but that "initial" report also has Trayvon's name, despite the fact that we know that Trayvon's body wasn't identified until the following day.
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Like I said, "How much I believe any report from the Sanford Police is my opinion, but that comment is in the report."

Maybe the Miami Herald has an actual first report, but if so it is yet another leaked piece of information, which in itself would be suspect. I know who I believe in this investigation and what I believe happened but I do try to keep track of the 'official' information versus what the media puts out. Far too much of what has been in the MSM has been incorrect.

As a political reporter once told me, reporters are lazy. They really don't want to have to get out and actually do their own research. That's why so much of what we see in the media are from leaks and unidentified sources without any verification or comparison to verified facts.

JMO, of course. ;)
 
Isabelle said:
Tracy wasn't there when it happened. He is recounting what LE told him, that is, the part he believes. Tracy and TM's mother are not stupid.
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And that was SPD's and the DA's first big mistake. Maybe they ASSumed that the victim's parents would be so shell shocked and devastated that they wouldn't question anything. Not all of us refuse to lie down and blindly accept what the 'authorities' tell us without question. Thank God for their strength to stand up and demand answers.

Demand Justice!
 
Isabelle said:
If one were to walk about the neighborhood wearing a hoodie and looking down, they would be guilty of hiding their face, thus suspicious. Only a delusional sociopath would see it this way.
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I've been thinking GZ is either a psychic or a pyschopath. Toss :twocents: to decide which! :floorlaugh:

JMO. :waitasec:
 
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