trial thread: 3/23/2012

Barsinister · Mar 23, 2012

roseofsharon said:
OMG! It's horrifying.

Or maybe he was driving and thought she was just keeping the kid for awhile to get back at someone because of a drug debt - and she was just helping him in the front seat while he drove to some out of the way place - kind of like the first time they met.

Alethea Dice · Mar 23, 2012

Kamille said:
MR was very social and had lots of friends...although most of them happened to be women. He had, from all appearances, a normal family, 2 brothers and a mother who loved him and doted on him. He had a working vehicle and connections to many people and places all over southern Ontario. He was said to be attached to his blackberry. He couldn't put it down long enough not to check his voicemail after the crime.

He had his mother supporting him and multiple ladies to spend his time with. There was no need for him to latch onto an 18yr old "gangsta" drug addict for any reason other than perhaps what ultimately happened.
MOO

BBM

Maybe for the drugs. Maybe, like he said in the interview, because he felt bad for her and wanted to help. In the video of them at the movie theater, it looked more to me like she was the one trying to latch onto him. JMO

myzzy · Mar 23, 2012

Kamille said:
Yeah okay. Victoria just got up off the floor after being pushed into the car and said "hey how ya doing" to MR and sat there all happy in the back seat all the way to Guelph?

And there were very early reports that someone saw a child being pushed into a car in that parking lot so I sure hope those were true and that the witness to that is in the line up.

And then after she "offered the child to MR sexually" and he declined, he proceeded to drive them to a rural laneway and not directly to a police station? I can't even believe this big shot lawyer is insulting the intelligence of that jury in this way.

MOO

BBM - I missed that? do we have a link by chance?

Kamille · Mar 23, 2012

ChaChaCha said:
Two words "mildly vindictive"

JMO

Sorry but no one so far has indicated that the supposed $400 "drug debt" of JG was owed to CM or TLM. And I would have thought Derstine would have established that when he had TM on the stand?

MOO

dilbert · Mar 23, 2012

If theres a child cowering in the back seat of your car, how is it that youre coming up with the idea that a tea would be lovely? Derstine asked.

We have video of you abducting Tori Stafford, video of you buying murder tools, Derstine pointed out. And largely about your word on who was the engine in this case, who made it happen.

Derstine also showed the jury entries McClintic had made in her diary while in prison at Genest Detention Centre in London after she was arrested for an outstanding probation warrant in April 2009.
She raged about being incarcerated with younger people and at one point wrote: Im ... getting blood-thirsty again, its like Im ... relapsin a bit.

As recently as January 2012, McClintic had got into a vicious fight with a fellow inmate at the Grand Valley Institution for Women in Kitchener, Derstine said.

He said McClintic asked to see an inmate ostensibly for peer support but quickly got into a brawl where she kicked and stomped the other woman.

While in prison, McClintic also told her godmother that she was sad about Toris death but only because Tori was a child. She said she could do it again, Derstine said.

McClintic said yes, she had said that to her godmother.

Derstine closed his cross-examination with a confession McClintic made to her godmother after Toris death: that as a child, she had microwaved a tiny family dog. At that time, she told everyone that the dog had been attacked by another animal and they believed her. The dog had to be put down.

The family had always believed that to be the truth.

Because nobody, apparently, could believe that you could be so cruel, Derstine said.

I was a child, said McClintic. I didnt know what I was doing.

She didn't know what she was doing, but she knew enough to blame the injuries on a neighbourhood dog.

Moments before, jurors heard McClintic's admission that a long time ago she put a dog in a microwave oven until it howled, then blamed a neighbourhood dog for the fatal injuries.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/23/19543041.html

Alethea Dice · Mar 23, 2012

antiquegirl said:
(BBM)

Well, if TLM's testimony is to be believed, he didn't need 6 weeks. According to her, they got rid of the hammer, their clothes, and other evidence the same night at the car wash ... together.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/...rown-to-present-case-against-michael-rafferty

The car wash that she conveniently couldn't find. JMO

AM980.ca@AM980_CourtReply
Police tried to find the car wash in Cambridge. McClintic described landmarks around it.

AM980.ca@AM980_CourtReply
McClintic drew the carwash for the police.

AM980.ca@AM980_CourtReply
Showing McClintic's drawings. She also drew a nearby Variety Store.

AM980.ca@AM980_CourtReply
McClintic was never able to identify the car wash or variety store.

Kamille · Mar 23, 2012

myzzy said:
BBM - I missed that? do we have a link by chance?

I'm sure if you want to wade through the first threads of this case you will find that discussion.

matou · Mar 23, 2012

Kamille said:
Sorry but no one so far has indicated that the supposed $400 "drug debt" of JG was owed to CM or TLM. And I would have thought Derstine would have established that when he had TM on the stand?

MOO

:clap::clap::clap:

dilbert · Mar 23, 2012

MR said in his police interview that TLM did some babysitting, TLM had babysitting on her resume. It's not a stretch to surmise that TLM told MR that she was babysitting Tori.

MOO

Barsinister · Mar 23, 2012

Alethea Dice said:
BBM

Maybe for the drugs. Maybe, like he said in the interview, because he felt bad for her and wanted to help. In the video of them at the movie theater, it looked more to me like she was the one trying to latch onto him. JMO

Come on no one is that niave - it is called a piece of a__

Barsinister · Mar 23, 2012

matou said:
:clap::clap::clap:

Not if it has been prearranged with the Judge that the information of who G owed for his drug debt is inadmissable evidence.

matou · Mar 23, 2012

dilbert said:
MR said in his police interview that TLM did some babysitting, TLM had babysitting on her resume. It's not a stretch to surmise that TLM told MR that she was babysitting Tori.

MOO

That has NOT been brought up at all by anyone and I believe it is a stretch. JMO

Wondergirl · Mar 23, 2012

dilbert said:
Just re-read the transcript of the interview with MR, I didn't notice it the first time, but it appears to me that he's trying to lead the police to TLM and Carol in a very subtle way when he says they're questionable people. Why would he point them in that direction when he KNEW she did it? Doing that would certainly lead them back to him.

MOO

Possibly because he was arrogant, had disdain for them, and thought they were pieces of trash, that he was better than them, and would be seen as more believable?

It's not like he didn't KNOW what happened to "the missing girl" when he did that interview.

Derstine admitted today MTR helped dispose of Tori.

That makes ALOT of what he said in that May 19th interview, very suspicious, full of psychopathy, IMO.

To jump on the bandwagon of blaming "the missing girl's" mother, in light of the fact that he knew damn well the child was laying dead under a pile of rocks, is very disturbing.

JMO

ChaChaCha · Mar 23, 2012

Kamille said:
But not for thinking it was okay to take someone else's child from school and drive her all the way to Mt Forest because of a supposed "drug debt"? :waitasec:

Why did he drop TLM off and let her walk to the school and then let her walk all the way to the nursing home? Why didn't he just pull into the school parking lot? :waitasec:

MOO

My daughter's little one has been to two different schools and I pass by two other schools each morning on my way to work. At each school the driveway to the parking lot is blocked off by pylons and a guard both at the beginning and end of each school day. There are large signs also that are placed at the entrances saying "Student Safety Zone - No Vehicles Allowed". This is done each day to make sure that no students crossing the parking lot are in danger of being hit by a parent picking up their child with their car. Lots of parents park on side streets near the schools, walk to get their children and take them back to their parked vehicle.

Some children at the little one's school, including her, exit out the back of the school and cut across the school field via pathway to an opening in the fence ... and another street closer to their homes.

It therefore makes sense to me that TM may have directed MR to park away from the school because you can't get in the driveway to the parking lot anyways.

What is also interesting is that all of the children line up outside the school at dismissal time until their parent or babysitter comes up to the line and lets the teacher know that they are there ... the teacher then gives permission to the child to leave the line - not until. When I pick up, the teacher is notified ahead of time that I will be there - and the little one cannot leave the line until she has identified me as "BamaBamaBama!" lol! This rule is in effect for all jr and senior kindergarten and grades one and two children. Thank goodness!

JMO

Barsinister · Mar 23, 2012

If CM or TLM said money was owed to them by anyone how would the police be able to prove that? Do you really believe they went around questioning drug buyers and asked them, "Hey do you owe so and so for some ripped off drugs?" And of course they answer, "Sure". They testified already that G had gone back several times for more drugs from CM without TM with him.

ynotdivein · Mar 23, 2012

:nono:

Remember TOS, and remember that you are not responding to another poster, you are responding to ideas (IMOs supported by evidence whenever possible) or to facts (with links).

Where this post falls is random.

:tyou:

KALI · Mar 23, 2012

It makes me sick to my knees to know there are people like these two, amongst us.
I do not care What Drugs they were using, I do not care about their childhood,
I think that Both of them should be exterminated.
They both chose to do a most evil deed.
There is no way to make them a citizen ingood standing. They are Both beyond repair.
Personally, I would like both of them to die.
I know, sigh, that will not happen.

CRYING for Tori, and the horror that little girl went through, with these two Monsters.

antiquegirl · Mar 23, 2012

nettie_82 said:
BBM

I honestly thought that up until today too, however, now I want to see the forensic evidence to come before I cast judgement on that. His lawyer presented the scenario where Tori was "offered" to MTR, and he declined. I tend to think if there was concrete forensic evidence to prove MTR had raped Tori, Derstine wouldn't have said that. Also, wasn't there a reference somewhere in her journal to raping another female? I will have to hunt for that tweet again.

JMHO

I'll let you look for that, Nettie, but this should be considered: TLM listed her sexual orientation on her TAGGED profile as "bi".

http://www.tagged.com/profile.html?uid=5410657570

Her best friend in detention was another inmate named Shipway, to whom she address a lot of gory letters that were read aloud in court.

RaffertyLFP:

McClintic letter to Shipway vows to "take out that kid's whole family" She admits she may have meant it at the time

Without a doubt, this is the same girl who was arrested for murder in August 2010.

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2010/08/13/15012626.html

She liked to dress in men's clothing. As to how deep the relationship was between TLM and Shipway, you be the judge.

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=508220848

Some background on this woman if anyone is interested:

http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/2011/06/03/18234851.html

JMO

Kamille · Mar 23, 2012

dilbert said:
MR said in his police interview that TLM did some babysitting, TLM had babysitting on her resume. It's not a stretch to surmise that TLM told MR that she was babysitting Tori.

MOO

But what was Victoria saying?!? In this scenario we'd have to believe that she knew TLM as a trusted babysitter. And it's never been established that she even knew her at all.

I think we're forgetting the victim here. And that there were three people in that car, not two. Regardless of this he said/she said volley, there was likely a very scared little girl in that car. Who was expecting to see a cute puppy and then go home and watch a movie with her friends, in her new home. I'm pretty sure she would have been panicking...oh say somewhere about the time when she got pushed into the back seat of a strange man's car.

MOO

swedie · Mar 23, 2012

dilbert said:
Right, but what did he say? "I didn't do it.." I'd cry too if I was accused and charged with something I didn't do.

IMO TLM didn't even care that she murdered someone, so why did she cry? Oh, because she killed a child and not an adult, that was her only regret and that she'd do it again. She cried for a purpose and it wasn't out of remorse.

:moo: If I committed a heinous crime and got caught, I would cry too. We are all aware of TLM's evil doings. No one is sticking up for her, she deserves what she gets. I feel safe to say that on behalf of many sluethers on this forum. There's no deny she is psychotic. I have read all the shocking things she herself has admitted to doing; right down to nuking her dog when she was a child. I pray she never gets out, rots in her cell or even worse, next time she decides to get into an altercation with an inmate, the other inmate is more evil than TLM. :moo:

This is MR's trial and it is about whether he is guilty or not. Thus far there has not been much information about MR, but I must admit the interview of May 15th, with the OPP which came out today is starting to show how much of a liar MR really is. :moo: Also the testimony from Det. Darmon shed light on MR's lies. :moo:

trial thread: 3/23/2012

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