PA PA - Ray Gricar, 59, Bellefonte, 15 April 2005 - #7

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Patty was the last person to see Ray...he wasn't at the courthouse that day, correct?

so aside from the video of him going into his office there is no absolute knowledge of where Ray might have been, leading up to this supposed call to Patty at the courthouse.

I think she was very quick to report him missing.

Perhaps he HAD been missing from the night before...4-14, after the Courthouse film. I thought the call to report him missing was rather quick, too. LoL on the jealous freak comment. No wonder RG may have walked off, eh ?
 
One thing that keeps nagging me. RFG had a lot of money in the bank & I am assuming that LE has done a thorough examination of withdrawals, moved funds, etc in the days prior to his disappearance. If he did actually walk away, it would have had to been with the financial support of someone else - someone who has the resources but who also has reasons not to disclose information. If RFG is still alive, I can't help but think it was either government (WPP) or possibly a very wealthy Penn State backer who paid him to vanish. (Yeah - the PSU thing is a real reach but hey - stranger things have happened).

The question is assets. RFG was grossing more than $100 K/year since 1997. He was divorced in 2000-01 and had very low expenses. His ex-wife had custody of their daughter and made more than he did. The question has been, shouldn't he have higher assets?

LE indicated that in the 2 1/2 years prior to his disappearance, he had taken $16 K out in cash, which is not a lot.

FWIW, I believe Ray is dead and my vision is he'll be found somewhere in semi-plain sight - possibly the victim of an accident where he went for a walk in the woods to clear his head & was injured. Call me crazy, but there's this part of me that says it was all much simpler than we currently think.

Maybe, but they have never reported searching across the river.
 
Snarky247 Call me crazy, but there's this part of me that says it was all much simpler than we currently think.

That's what I think too...such as RFG leaving Lewisburg, if that is what happened. I agree, it is something so basic, none of us can pin it down.
 
Anybody know of the blonde woman RFG was allegedly seen with in Lewisburg on 4-15, by some later witness...I had heard something about this, but do not know the validity of the story...not the LMW we all know of...this is either some more recent story, and by someone who had just come forward. Anyone know of this ?
 
Ray is a very attractive man from what I can see...unless he's super short or has a fat body and a cute face or a giant bald spot... I know love is blind but Patty? hmmmm I can see her being a jealous FREAK.

just sayin....

YES!!! From a younger woman's POV-- Absolutely I see Patti as a very jealous type person.
Have you seen the " Disappeared" segment on Ray where Patti says " I think- NO, I KNOW that if Ray ever wanted out of our relationship, he would just tell me so".
She comes across as SO COLD and arrogant. It's in the eyes and body language more than anything else. She tries to keep her voice " sweet". I've spent a lifetime of reading body language in addition to hearing the words spoken.


Patti was very lucky to have a man like Ray Gricar care about her, and I'll stop right there...
 
Anybody know of the blonde woman RFG was allegedly seen with in Lewisburg on 4-15, by some later witness...I had heard something about this, but do not know the validity of the story...not the LMW we all know of...this is either some more recent story, and by someone who had just come forward. Anyone know of this ?


I've never heard of a blond. He was, over the years, associated with at least one blond.
 
YES!!! From a younger woman's POV-- Absolutely I see Patti as a very jealous type person.
Have you seen the " Disappeared" segment on Ray where Patti says " I think- NO, I KNOW that if Ray ever wanted out of our relationship, he would just tell me so".
She comes across as SO COLD and arrogant. It's in the eyes and body language more than anything else. She tries to keep her voice " sweet". I've spent a lifetime of reading body language in addition to hearing the words spoken.


Patti was very lucky to have a man like Ray Gricar care about her, and I'll stop right there...

Or angry. Remember, when that was filmed, at least, she thought he was alive. She stopped talking to the press, for the most part, after the LMW was disclosed.

A lot of people, initially, thought RFG was with a woman.
 
Or angry. Remember, when that was filmed, at least, she thought he was alive. She stopped talking to the press, for the most part, after the LMW was disclosed.

A lot of people, initially, thought RFG was with a woman.

Playing " Devil's Advocate" here. It's been my turn for a long time. LOL.

What IF the cigarette smoke smell/ ashes were from a single cigarette smoked or burned or whatever to cover up the smell of perfume?
"The scent of a lovely woman" is most likely something he would cover up on his way out of PA.
 
I.D. is airing his updated " Disappeared" episode again.

Why do I ALWAYS cry? I really don't understand how some people draw us in and keep us there.

BTW, WHAT was Steve Sloane talking about when he said " A woman in the office reported that Ray was withdrawn in the days prior to his disappearance but I don't see how she would know because he was ALWAYS withdrawn to her anyway"??

Is he saying that there was friction among Ray and his staff? Could this be significant?

Patti is not a warm, nurturing person. I stand by this assessment 100%!
 
Playing " Devil's Advocate" here. It's been my turn for a long time. LOL.

What IF the cigarette smoke smell/ ashes were from a single cigarette smoked or burned or whatever to cover up the smell of perfume?
"The scent of a lovely woman" is most likely something he would cover up on his way out of PA.

Possible, and a good point! :)

I'm not sure, but those might have been actual photos of the ash.
 
I've never heard of a blond. He was, over the years, associated with at least one blond.

I found the link to 'the blonde'. The reference date is
11/30/2011. This is rather new information.

http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx

Looks like a Lewisburg woman has come forward with the Dateline people and reported that she saw RFG with a young blonde woman. Read for yourselves. Not sure how valid this may be, but it is something new.
 
Did Tony Gricar STEER the early investigation to the river because of his own angst over his dad?
WHY was LE so short- sighted as to search the river, even with sniffer dogs, FGS!!, and not search the woods?
Yes, I know, they thought " suicide" but why not a simultaneous land and river search? He was not a homeless vagabond, he was their DA!!!!

This makes me so angry, but not " Patti angry".
 
I.D. is airing his updated " Disappeared" episode again.

Why do I ALWAYS cry? I really don't understand how some people draw us in and keep us there.

BTW, WHAT was Steve Sloane talking about when he said " A woman in the office reported that Ray was withdrawn in the days prior to his disappearance but I don't see how she would know because he was ALWAYS withdrawn to her anyway"??

That was Cheryl Spotts, a court administrator. Mike Joseph, then a reporter for the CDT and JKA also noticed it. If the links still work, here is the blog on it: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/28/2397115/a-change-in-demeanor-and-activity.html

Is he saying that there was friction among Ray and his staff? Could this be significant?

Well, two of them noticed it it a month before. He was working hard to move cases to others.
 
I found the link to 'the blonde'. The reference date is
11/30/2011. This is rather new information.

http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx

Looks like a Lewisburg woman has come forward with the Dateline people and reported that she saw RFG with a young blonde woman. Read for yourselves. Not sure how valid this may be, but it is something new.

Couldn't find a thing about RG from the news site. Could you link to the ARTICLE? Thanks in advance.
 
That was Cheryl Spotts, a court administrator. Mike Joseph, then a reporter for the CDT and JKA also noticed it. If the links still work, here is the blog on it: http://www.centredaily.com/2009/02/28/2397115/a-change-in-demeanor-and-activity.html



Well, two of them noticed it it a month before. He was working hard to move cases to others.

OK, so you are saying that he was pressing them hard enough to tick them off? As in, they had full case loads already and he was all of a sudden handing them all his cases?

J.J., if this doesn't say " planned walkaway", I don't know what does!!! ( They make it perfectly clear that he was not ill).
I had NO idea that his delegation of cases was significant enough to alienate his staff. I don't know about you, but I think this is hugely important. He was a man who would avoid personal confrontation whenever possible, IMO..
Therefore, his NEED to get the case load shifted to others outweighed his normal " maintaining cordiality" in the work place.
Behaviorly speaking, this is HUGE!!!
 
Did Tony Gricar STEER the early investigation to the river because of his own angst over his dad?
WHY was LE so short- sighted as to search the river, even with sniffer dogs, FGS!!, and not search the woods?
Yes, I know, they thought " suicide" but why not a simultaneous land and river search? He was not a homeless vagabond, he was their DA!!!!

This makes me so angry, but not " Patti angry".

I would not use the word "steer." He remembered his father's suicide and thought suicide. His brother was riding with him, and thought the exact same thing. That is a normal reaction.

I have a family history of cancer. Every time I discover something that could be cancer, like a small lump, my first reaction is cancer. I don't fear it; I just expect it. I can understand why Tony would react the way he did. For 5-6 months after RFG disappeared, I kept expecting someone to fish his body out of the Susquehanna.

As far I know, LE never searched the area across the river; I hope I'm wrong. It is probably because of Roy Gricar's suicide method.
 
Couldn't find a thing about RG from the news site. Could you link to the ARTICLE? Thanks in advance.

All I can do is copy and paste...it is long !!! (Me italicized).

aaArticle rank 30 Nov 2011 The Daily Item (Sunbury, PA)By Rick Dandes The Daily Item Witness: Missing DA with blonde ZoomBookmarkSharePrintListenTranslate“I never told police about it ... I looked and saw a man, and a woman with blond hair. I remember thinking about her, ‘Wow, big hair.’” — Ivy Butterworth, Milton resident

LEWISBURG — It took six years and the presence of Dateline NBC in Lewisburg on Tuesday before a Milton woman revealed that she had seen a young blonde with Ray Gricar the day he disappeared near the Street of Shops.

A Dateline NBC crew filmed inside the antiques mall, outside of which the former Centre County district attorney disappeared April 15, 2005. The segment producer would not confirm whether renewed interest in Gricar’s disappearance was associated with the DA’S early investigation into the Penn State child abuse scandal.

Ivy Butterworth was having lunch at the Street of Shops — where her daughter works — when business owner Craig Bennett told her about the Dateline NBC crew.

“Oh, I saw Gricar the day he disappeared,” she told Bennett, then walked over to the NBC producers. Butterworth, of Milton, said she saw a man she believed to be Gricar the day he disappeared in a car with a young blonde.

“I never told police about it,” she told Dateline NBC and The Daily Item. “But it was his car and later on I saw of photo of Gricar and I am convinced it was him.”

Montour County District Attorney Robert Buehner Jr., a friend of Gricar’s, confirmed Tuesday night that police interviews with witnesses revealed the DA had been seen inside the Street of Shops with a blonde, whom Gricar appeared to know.

Buehner, who was also interviewed this month about Gricar’s disappearance by Lester Holt of Dateline NBC, said he did not know who the blonde might be.

Minutes after Butterworth approached the news crew, Dateline NBC producers interviewed her on camera, a portion of which might be aired.

Butterworth was jogging on April 15, 2005, when she saw a parked Mini-cooper.

“I love cars and at the time there weren’t many Mini-coopers in the area,” she said. “I thought it was a cute car. So I looked and saw a man, and a woman with blond hair. I remember thinking about her, ‘Wow, big hair.’ And I didn’t think more about it. I remember later on all the questions came up ... was Gricar with a woman, or not with a woman?

“I knew the man I saw was Gricar. The abandoned car was the car that I saw and there was definitely a woman in the car. I never said anything to anybody because, well, what’s the point? I mean, the guy was never found. If he wants to run off and go to Mexico or wherever with his girlfriend and he’s got the money to do it, hey, I wish it was me.”

As Butterworth told her story, the Dateline NBC camera was running.

“(The Dateline interviewer) asked me again, ‘Why didn’t you say anything at the time?’ And I said, ‘It wouldn’t have changed anything,’” she said. “It wouldn’t have helped or hindered their investigation in any way, I thought. He was still going. In my personal opinion this was all very well thought out, very well planned, and he’s living a happy life somewhere.”

Segment producer Jay Young would not say when the piece would air. He was also secretive in explaining how the Lewisburg part of the story would be portrayed.
Gricar first investigated 1998 allegations of sexual misconduct by Penn State assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky, whom he opted not to prosecute.

When the full-scale scandal came to light in early November, media outlets began to speculate on a connection between the early Sandusky investigation and Gricar’s disappearance.

Tuesday was not the first time Dateline NBC had been in Lewisburg, Bennett said. “They were here last week,” he said. Bennett said he was informed that Dateline NBC was working on the project and would be taping scenes outside and inside the Street of Shops.

“Last week,” he said, “they taped location shots of the area behind the building leading down to the Susquehanna River. This week, I didn’t know they were coming until about noon time, when they called me and asked for permission to tape indoors.”

Off camera, Bennett said, “We talked about a lot of theories. I said that every year about April 15, when Gricar disappeared, the amateur sleuths come out. ”

The TV crew stayed inside the Street of Shops until just after 2 p.m.

While Dateline NBC was working on some kind of Gricar story, Bennett said, “Beyond that, I don’t know if they were trying to connect the dots between the Gricar disappearance and the Jerry Sandusky case.”

Jessica Tornez, a cashier at the Street of Shops, said the Dateline NBC crew didn’t talk much with area residents.

“They seemed to be more interested in getting a sense of place, where Gricar might have been before he disappeared,” Tornez said. “They didn’t really ask for many opinions. They seemed to have a story in mind and were just getting some location shots. That’s the vibe I got. It was more scenery than anything.”

People started giving the Dateline NBC team their opinions about Gricar’s disappearance.

Young would not comment whether Dateline NBC’S was investigating a connection between Gricar’s disappearance and the Sandusky case.

He said that he could not say anything pending his New York supervisors’ approval of an interview with The Daily Item.

He also would not say who would be the voice-over host of the segment. “It’s yet to be decided,” he said. Although he provided a cell phone number to call for additional information, frequent attempts to reach Young on Tuesday night were unsuccessful.

During the fall Dateline NBC airs at 10 p.m. Fridays.

Email comments to rdandes@dailyitem. com

Printed and distributed by NewpaperDirect | www.newspaperdirect.com, US/Can: 1.877.980.4040, Intern: 800.6364.6364 | Copyright and protected by applicable law.

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OK, so you are saying that he was pressing them hard enough to tick them off? As in, they had full case loads already and he was all of a sudden handing them all his cases?

No, but he tended to get in that type of mood when he was working hard. JKA said it more than that.

J.J., if this doesn't say " planned walkaway", I don't know what does!!! ( They make it perfectly clear that he was not ill).

Or he planned to take some time off, like a long weekend, or he expected something big to come along that he'd have to devote more time to. [/Devil's Advocate] :)
 
1) Was the case considered to be a criminal case from the beginning?
2) Is this why, as far as we know, there have been NO volunteer searches?
3) Ditto a PI coming in, or a fantastic ground search team like TES.

4) What effect did having RG declared legally dead have on the already cold investigation?

5) What are the ODDS that LE knows that Ray is alive and well but cannot say so?

6) How is it that a man declared legally dead, who was a respected man in both Ohio and PA gets NO memorial service???

I don't know which of these questions bothers me most. I feel sick.
 
No, but he tended to get in that type of mood when he was working hard. JKA said it more than that.



Or he planned to take some time off, like a long weekend, or he expected something big to come along that he'd have to devote more time to. [/Devil's Advocate] :)

J.J., gonna nickname you " DA" for Devil's Advocate. :)
Yes, just read and re-read your blog post because it raised so many questions.. Behavioral psychs. like me believe that ALL behavior has meaning.. Probably the most chilling thing was him turning away from a JUDGE, looking at a bookcase, and stating that he would not be present in October...

I do not buy, not for one second, the idea that he planned to take time off DURING A DEATH CASE because it was his birthday. If I have read once that he prosecuted this most serious of all cases, I've read it 25 times or more.

And what were the " Specal Circumstances" that allowed Lara to petition and for the court to declare RG dead before 7 years? From everything I've read, it's 7 years OR " special circumstances which definitely point to but do not prove death".
 
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