GUILTY VA - Noah Thomas, 5, Pulaski County, 22 March 2015 #5

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iamnotagolem said:
I think someone linked up thread that PT's license had been suspended or revoked.
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I remember that, now that you mention it...and it illustrates their thought processes so well...

"Let's leave the 5 year old and baby at home all alone while it's still dark outside, so Dad doesn't risk getting a ticket for driving with a suspended license. Clearly leaving two helpless children home alone has a much lower risk factor."

I need to go bang my head against a wall now.
 
JeannaT said:
It seems there is probably more. I was hoping the autopsy tox tests would be available today.
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On this note, thinking of the medical examiner and staff who had to perform an autopsy on a previously healthy 5 year old child. I think the ME is often overlooked in homicide cases, but really, the case BEGINS (or ends!) with his/her work. No room for sloppiness or error, and when the decedent is a child who did not die of natural causes, I imagine that it's difficult not to let emotions run wild.
 
helpful said:
On this note, thinking of the medical examiner and staff who had to perform an autopsy on a previously healthy 5 year old child. I think the ME is often overlooked in homicide cases, but really, the case BEGINS (or ends!) with his/her work. No room for sloppiness or error, and when the decedent is a child who did not die of natural causes, I imagine that it's difficult not to let emotions run wild.
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Well, if we need someone to input once the tox is in and if we get information prior to trial (iffy) we can always do a batcall to Joypath!
 
ANonyMs said:
So, it may be nothing to do with this case but I find it interesting that they were arraigned outside of Pulaski (remember the whole "court on Good Friday" debate?) and now they have a substitute judge. Just...interesting.

I find it reprehensible that nothing seems to talk about either of them showing interest in getting Baby A back. Not that they should have her nor deserve her but so much talk of "normal" life, jobs, bills, where to live, etc and no mention of their other child.

The MSM articles mention PT's attorney saying that PT would lose his house if he is not allowed back to work. Lose his rental house? So he wants to go back to the house where his child died? How could he even think to use the toilet there? And do we really think the landlord is going to be able to rent that place again to someone else anytime soon?

When I first moved to the town I live in, there was a lovely rental house that kept popping up. Curious why it remained unrented for many months in a university town where rentals go fast, I researched it. It had been the site of a horrific murder-suicide. The owner painted, put new carpet in, etc. Nothing could get a renter in to that house.

Interesting, too, that she did not ask to be released to go back to the same house. Because PT would not have here there or b/c she did not want to/could not bring herself to go there?
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There was a Reporter in Little Rock AR that was murdered. It was a rental and I remb reading that they tore the house down. Sad all the way around.
 
Aeronomy said:
If she honestly had no idea what happened to Noah and that he had fallen into the tank then she wouldn't have lied about the kids being with her when she'd dropped her husband off at work. The difference in timing is literally night and day! There was much more darkness outside when they left versus when she reported she was asleep. That would make a difference if someone actually took Noah. IMHO, she didn't disclose this initially because she knew he was in the tank where either she or her husband placed him.

Though it's confirmed they left both kids there when they departed that morning, it's not confirmed whether or not Noah was alive at the time they left.
Is it confirmed what time Ashley actually returned?

Also, I wonder about the daughter's "serious respiratory illness" and what caused it.
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JMO, I wondering if both kids were asleep, and Noah got up and went outside while she was gone and fell into the tank. We don't know she went straight there and back. Who knows about traffic. I personally will leave 30 earlier than normal person would I fear something happening making me late. I know there prob a diagnosis for that lol. Possible got back home, lay back down and when got up couldn't find Noah....

On the baby serious resp illness, possible she was sick and the whole situation .. they removed her on the side of caution. I thinking that charge against Dad with the diff letter, is like a worse charge of that charge and it or Noah. JMHO

ETA: was the weather cold at that time? I know we have all had crazy weather. Also another possibility... what if Noah had been out in the dark the night before and the parents thought he was in bed? The guy that pump the septic in one report I read, said he saw his little coat (I think that was in the latest Orly fb post). Baby A sick, cold outside, Mom thinks can hurry get dad to work... Neglectful no doubt. But we have to wait on the results and more info.
 
I don't know anything about septic tanks but if Noah fell in by accident then why was the top not screwed down?
 
courtneyb said:
And we do know that the lid was on the tank when they found him. Fairly certain Noah didn't replace the lid after he put himself in the tank.
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Respectfully snipped.
Only thing about that is, we don't know if the lid was initially off or on. We have seen reports of people using rods moving around the first morning.

Was it still dark that time of the morning? I wondering if Noah woke up and saw his Mom and Dad gone and went looking for them. << Thinking out loud.
 
iamnotagolem said:
I have to wonder what they stopped at the convenience store for that morning. That's where they were seen on video, right? What was so important that they risked being caught on video w/o their kids?
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Not thinking about that. Probable they did it before.... just going to run and drop Daddy off at work... kids sleeping be right back... JMHO.
 
Tallula.Belle said:
I don't know anything about septic tanks but if Noah fell in by accident then why was the top not screwed down?
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I don't know why the lid was not bolted properly, but here is a case where it was not and it shows how easily an accident can happen. The family in the article is trying to warn others about that very danger.:

When the child unwittingly stepped on the lid of the septic tank, it flipped over and she vanished from sight. Then the lid flipped back into place.

Parman&#8217;s grown son, Michael Durrant, 30, saw the lid pop up and quickly ran to help.

http://www.nj.com/hunterdon-county-...ank_in_tewksbury_family_warns_of_dangers.html
 
vasportsmom said:
A few months ago my crazy mother called CPS to report me for letting my oldest stay home alone one weekend.
He's nearly 20 ...


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:happydance: sorry made me laugh.

But seriously. I think it has a lot to do with maturity of child/children. 20 yes, but someone else could have a physically or mentality challenged 20 yr old and it would be a whole diff situation. I think that's why some laws are broad. I think it gives the LEO authorities more ability being broad. JMHO

I know my brothers and I stayed home alone or in car while parents shopped and it was just common. LOL we would fight and whatever, but just way it was yrs ago. But when I was grown and had my children, times had changed and I did things with them that I would NEVER even think about doing with my grandchildren.
 
courtneyb said:
http://www.wset.com/story/28809827/update-noah-thomas-case-both-parents-bond-hearings-today

"At the afternoon bond hearing for Ashley White, Noah's mother, White's defense team called Dennis Cales to the stand. Cales, White's uncle, told the court he would allow White to live in his home in Giles County. White said his 11-year-old granddaughter lives with him and his wife.

"Putting her into a home with a child is unthinkable at this point," said Judge Karen Loftin, just before ordering White continue to be held without bond.

BBM

Pretty strong statement from the judge. I'd say a true accident is probably pretty low on the list of "What happened here?"
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JMO, but the AT THIS POINT, is relevant. They haven't gotten the tox results back so they haven't finished up with Noah death yet. And the baby was removed, and so I say its a fair statement by the judge. It would be unthinkable at this point... its still an ongoing investigation. JMO
 
When my oldest grandson was 3... My husb was gone to deer camp and something messed up on my car. My neighbor was so kind he came and fixed it. Well few hrs later neighbor knocks on my door, he left some kind of tool under the hood. So no prob. We go out and get it. I had my cell in my hand and just used the light from it to see the tool.. Don't ask me how or why but in my yapping I lay my phone down. Ok go back in... all sudden I realize I left phone outside. Grand is playing with his lil trucks.... stay right here Mimi going to go get her phone, be right back...OK mimi... Open front door zip out, get phone back in, not even a minute if that. ... Shut door. .. grand not at floor playing... so I yell out to him... no answer, go to kitchen, thinking he hiding, then bath room still calling out his name. LOL I hear the door bell but now I really trying to find this lil stinker and I am laughing calling his name.... finally dazed I go back to LR hear a lil peck peck then door bell AGAIN.. I open it and THERE STANDS MY LIL 3 YR OLD GRANDSON WITH A BIG GRIN ON HIS FACE! Every emotion imaginable of WHAT COULD HAVE HAPPENED in those couple of minutes I was calling out his name!!! Mind you all this happened in less than 5 minutes! I literally was shaking!! Little rascal had followed me right out the door, somehow in the dark we passed, me flying out to get phone and right back in, and door shut.... Stuff happens in blink of an eye....
 
ANonyMs said:
Agreed. PT's charges may be lesser than AW's but his attitude surely stinks.


You are right, tresptip, we do not have confirmation that it was not an accident. He could have fallen in the septic tank...but then someone had to put the lid on before LE arrived.

As for the coffee table example...I respectfully disagree that it is a valid comparison. If a mother is in the home, she might hear the bump or thud, or at least she would surely come upon and find the child passed out within a few minutes. And then a reasonable, responsible reaction would be to call 911 for medical assistance. A child home alone who experiences an accident does not have the benefit of having aid rendered immediately or within a short time after the accident occurs. And a child who experiences an accident wherein the parent fails to call for help at all has virtually no chance.
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You don't know that someone put the lid on after he fell in.He could have fallen in while pulling the lid off and then the lid fell back in place.

Even if she had been home when he fell into the septic tank,She still would not have had enough time to save him.
 
Tallula.Belle said:
There is no comparison in these two things. She intentionally made decisions that led to his death. Completely different circumstances.
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In both scenarios,she intentionally made a decision that led to the death.I don't see a difference.JMO
 
mpnola said:
Exactly! Accidents happen! Responsible or loving or humane people react with trying to help/ get others to help. Especially your child!
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But if they didn't know Noah was in the septic tank then theres nothing more that could be done other than calling and reporting him missing which is what they did.
 
Tallula.Belle said:
So am I to understand that you feel he got in the tank by himself, and was able to pull to tank cover back over in a manner that made it appear untouched? Because I can only see two options. Either he fell in or was tossed in. What is your theory?
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He could have fell in while jerking the lid off sideways,lost his balance jerking it and fell in with the lid falling shut behind him.
 
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