MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #4

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Most of us don't live our lives prepared for the possibility that the government is going to come into our homes and look into every nook and cranny, not only physically in our closets and drawers, but also delve into everything we've ever stored on our computers, cell phones, and everywhere else.

IMO, a very significant percentage of people have things on their computers that they would not like others to see. Maybe they photograph kinky things in the bedroom. Maybe they have an unusual fetish that would raise eyebrows. Maybe they play an online game, like Second Life, and keep logs of their activities as they experiment with things they would never, ever try in real life. There are countless things people do that are not necessarily even illegal, but are very private.

These are the kinds of intimate things that are, suddenly, no longer intimate when something like this happens. I like to think that every parent of a missing child would throw their doors open and welcome LE to look wherever and whenever they need to... but what if you know you are innocent and that the police rifling through your collection of beast *advertiser censored* is going to do nothing to help find your child, and everything to make LE and the public waste time looking in the wrong direction?

What do you do then? I don't know. Maybe LE accuses you of not cooperating when you say, "No, you can't look at my computer disks".

I'm not saying this has happened. I'm just saying.


Very well said, and I agree, most people would not want the government poking into the deep secrets of their private lives. But...saying "No you can't look at my computer disks" will accomplish absolutely nothing, except having an officer stand there while another one goes and gets a warrant. And they will tell you that. And it won't take that long. I don't think that's what's happening here.

FWIW, I do agree, the woman spokesperson did sound a lot like a lawyer. Quite possibly a relative who happens to be a lawyer. She seemed poised and professional. I can imagine an scenario where if LE have been just a little too much "in their face" and such a person came in, with the confidence of legal training, they might say "You know what, leave us alone and go find the baby. We've told you everything we know for three days. Do your job and leave us alone." I can imagine that. I can also of course imagine many other scenarios. So I am keeping an open mind.

And going to bed now, like others, hoping to awake to good news.


ETA: Posting while I was writing, someone ID'd the spokeswoman. Her name is apparently Ashley Irwin. <modsnip>
 
The cell phone info didnt come out until today right?
Would it take this long for LE to pull records and have them available?
( from the time the baby was reported missing)
If the parents failed to mention having cell phone could LE have found the records anyway not knowing a specific provider?
If they did fail to mention having service could it be just today LE asked them about the lines then suddenly they say they were taken w the baby?
Im so zoned in on the phones and the timing of the parents public storm off at a search site. Or did they leave a presser upset? Im getting confused

jmo and thinking out loud

I am a little fuzzy on this, but I remember when Kelsey Smith went missing there was a problem getting the cell phone records. The problem wasn't with the carrier that owned the cell phone towers, but rather with Kelsey's carrier that contracted with the company that owned the towers, and Kelsey's carriers unwillingness to provide this info. It's possible that the laws have been changed to require them to cooperate.

What I do know is that we had a friend who used to work for a cell phone company and this person job was to retrieve this info. He worked for the company that was the first contact when they were trying to get cell phone info on Kelsey. Her carrier stalled providing this info to LE.

Prior to this friend getting this job we had the FBI show up one day, at our house, for an interview. As in ... knock on my door. We happened to be home for lunch. I knew we would be interviewed, as we were told we were on the reference list, what I didn't expect was a surprise visit.

So, yes, I think it could take this long to get the records. It also could be that the police had the info, and are releasing this info at this time for a specific reason. Every thing they do is for a reason. They aren't going willy-nilly into this. If the parents did not tell them about the cell phone, the police probably already knew they had a cell phone. They are many steps ahead of the parents. It's their job. They want to find the baby.
 
I just have to say that Casey Anthony completely cooperated with police as well, however, she was never being truthful. It is quite possible that police have discovered that Lisa's parents have not been completely truthful and in the eyes of police, that means they aren't cooperating. Even if the dishonesty is about something trivial, it shows that they are not using full disclosure and therefore not cooperating.

I'm not saying that is what has happened, just saying that is an example of why police would say they were not cooperating and the family says they are cooperating.
 
Kansas City police spokesman Steve Young said.

"Tonight, they decided to stop talking to detectives, and I don't have to illustrate how that affects the investigation. That speaks for itself," he said.

He reiterated that investigators still have no suspects. A cousin of the baby's mother who has been acting as a spokesman for the family declined to comment to The Associated Press after Young's announcement Thursday evening.


Read more: http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/na...f2c-5f26-8198-b0801af51b69.html#ixzz1a3sb6TUr
 
Okay, all day with this cell phone back-and-forth, I was doubting myself, BUT, I *knew* I remembered seeing a series of posts based on a MSM article on the first day stating that thepolice had taken the parents' cell phones.

snipped by me

How could the police take the parents cell phones if the cell phones had previously been stolen before LE arrived?:waitasec:
 
Ok, my mind is still spinning. IF the parents wanted to stage a kidnapping, why would they put so much detail that makes it look so odd that people would question it? Why would you say window open, (front)door unlocked, lights on and 3 phones gone? Wouldn't the lights not being on be more convincing? Or, hey the spare key is gone from under the flower pot? You know how people say the truth is stranger than fiction or "you can't make this stuff up". Could it be that someone was so "clever" or evil that they knew the parents would look guilty and no one would believe it could happen this way?

I know, I know..... I don't want to believe yet another family could hurt their own child or cover up an accidental death. But seriously, this doesn't make sense.
 
I have never believed this was a stranger kidnapping, FWIW. At the very least, someone known to the family. Now I really don't know what to even guess...good grief.
 
snipped by me

How could the police take the parents cell phones if the cell phones had previously been stolen before LE arrived?:waitasec:

That's the contradiction I was pointing out. Look at this post from Day 1.
[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7185559&postcount=83"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - MO MO - AMBER ALERT: Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #1[/ame]
 
Sadly the events surrounding this case sound all too familiar.
Door unlocked and lights on is not a first-think Haleigh Cummings case!
Dad at work when abduction occured, one of the first stories in the media was Dad came home from work, found Haleigh missing and woke Misty then the story changed. Granted she was not 10 mos. but they stated they looked for her before calling LE. LE states family/those close to Haleigh are cooperating then after awhile they no longer are. LE does not name any suspects but clears no one. They state "everyone is a suspect".
Overdose and inside job, yes, it is possible in both cases. jmo

I've had the same thoughts since early on in this case. I was so hoping to be wrong. It's difficult to hope for a positive outcome at this point but I'll keep baby Lisa in my prayers. I'll be praying for a miracle.
 
Ok, my mind is still spinning. IF the parents wanted to stage a kidnapping, why would they put so much detail that makes it look so odd that people would question it? Why would you say window open, (front)door unlocked, lights on and 3 phones gone? Wouldn't the lights not being on be more convincing? Or, hey the spare key is gone from under the flower pot? You know how people say the truth is stranger than fiction or "you can't make this stuff up". Could it be that someone was so "clever" or evil that they knew the parents would look guilty and no one would believe it could happen this way?

I know, I know..... I don't want to believe yet another family could hurt their own child or cover up an accidental death. But seriously, this doesn't make sense.

Maybe it sounded legit to them at the time.
 
As Lisa's story was surfacing, my mind immediately went back a decade or so to when I was pregnant. Throughout that pregnancy, I participated in an online discussion board on a parenting site. We were arranged in forums by due date. As the months went by, disagreements and fights erupted between hormonal pregnant women (and then hormonal new mommies) about any manner of things that could result in a serious grudge, and a certain percentage of women ended up losing their babies at all stages of pregnancy, from early in the first trimester to stillbirths to SIDS.

I discovered some things in that time. First, too many people are too free with information. People posted details of their lives, full names of families and children, pictures of their houses and nurseries... everything.

Second, many people online lie. There were a couple of "tragic" incidents exposed as scams, after people had banded together and collected money and things, and some people's "lives" were completely invented and bogus. You'd think you really knew somebody, because they'd post information and pictures of their lives too -and find out later that nothing they presented was true.

Third, there are some mentally unhealthy people online and often people don't realize how serious it is until it's too late. At least one of the women who lost a child via stillbirth insisted on continuing with the group as we graduated from being an "Expecting Club" to being a "Playgroup". It was painful to see the ways she tortured herself as others embarked on lives with their new babies. Someone would say, "I got no sleep last night... Little Ralphie cried all night long", and she'd go into hysterics: At least you HAVE a baby to cry!!!!!"

I can see someone like that taking a baby. I can see her fixating on a certain baby, collecting photographs as they are posted and information about the family and house and daily life (because women on those groups post EVERYTHING!), stalking FB pages... shudder.

I hope as they are investigating, they look into whether Lisa's mother may have participated in a group like this. The internet can truly be creepy.
 
Do Whhhat??

I have to go to bed now. My jaw is really sore from hitting the floor this evening.


Kinda like all the THUDs from Kyron's initial days???


Well if the aunt was told that LE took the phones and then today it came out that the phones were taken when Lisa was- that would be contradictory. Of course, the aunt could have been mistaken.

I keep going back to the one part I was concerned about in the interview today.

Just a reminder, remember Jessica Lunsford's grandmother failed the Lie Detector too bless her heart. Didn't mean a thing.
 
If my baby was missing, I'd be "well past off."

I already tried to clarify this earlier in this thread but I will do it again, then let it drop. I did not specify what I meant when I said I thought the man to be off because this is a victim friendly site. I was making a small observation of his behavior in a general sense, not as the parent of a missing child.
 
I agree that the phones disappearing made me think the parents don't want LE to have them. They'll get the records though. I had not ruled out the parents yet. The dad doesn't look all that upset in interviews, sorry.

Or maybe he's just stoic like a lot of men are, and doesn't feel comfortable showing his feelings. At this point, we have no way of knowing, JMO.
 
Again, I don't see LE being unprofessional. They have a job to do and they will do it. If the parents aren't working with them anymore then there is nothing that LE can do from that point. It seems as if they have left no stone unturned[literally] in their search area these last few days. You would have to know the area and know just how much vegetation/rough terrain there is there. I think LE's hands are tied.

I DON'T for one minute believe that any KCMO PD has given up on baby Lisa.

I agree. It's not unprofessional. They are doing their job. Their job is to find the missing child. The parents need to be cleared and then they widen the circle. There seems to be a lot of inconsistencies in their statements (at least from what I have read).

I also don't think they have given up. This isn't their first rodeo. There are many things that we don't know about this case. I remember Mark Klass saying that when Polly went missing he would do anything and everything to clear himself so they could move on and find his daughter. Refusing to cooperate with LE isn't going to help LE find Lisa ... and I for one question why they would do this.
 
I think I'm going to puke.

I also hope they find her body soon. I no longer believe Lisa is alive.

I have 0 faith in there being a ransom.

Please don't be so quick to give up hope
 
I agree that the phones disappearing made me think the parents don't want LE to have them. They'll get the records though. I had not ruled out the parents yet. The dad doesn't look all that upset in interviews, sorry.

Mom appears genuinely distraught, dad appears very very nervous like he is about to pop.His eyes keep shifting and he talks like hes not believing what he's saying himself and wants to say something else IMO
 
Hope Little Lisa is back home by the time I wake up.
 
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