GUILTY Canada - Paul Bernardo & Karla Homolka, murdered, 1993

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redheadedgal said:
from the soc.culture.filipino link:

Part of the delay in the trial was to allow the RCMP to
conclude a special investigation. Mounted police detectives
traveled to Japan and tried to procure Bernardo's `home' snuff
videos. The video's were evidently circulating in the Japanese
sex underground. Bernardo's sex crimes were a money making
venture. This would account for his high living standards while
unemployed.


i never read about any of this in the books i read either, jane. no japan. no sold snuff tapes. bernardo smuggled large amounts of cigarettes from the US into Canada and sold them locally. apparently, he made good money doing this. additionally, leslie was not dismembered while alive.


i may have missed a few things so if others who have read the legit books care to read that link and add to this list, it might be helpful to our members who want to know the truth. if you choose to assist, thanks :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Redhead

So whilst they were evil they were not evil extrodanire then ? :rolleyes: why do people add to it ?
wasnt their crime heinous enough ? that ppl had to make up more ?
 
JaneInOz said:
Thanks Redhead

So whilst they were evil they were not evil extrodanire then ? :rolleyes: why do people add to it ?
wasnt their crime heinous enough ? that ppl had to make up more ?
Click to expand...

I think there's something somewhat unique about the Bernardo/Homolka case-- from what I understand a lot of details and specifics have never been officially released or confirmed. The publication ban was initially imposed to ensure Bernardo had a fair trial, but I've read that the Crown later acknowledged that the ban and attendant limitations on publicity were also to protect the victims' families. There's also some conspiracy theory that evidence and details have continued to be suppressed because the Crown gave Karla Homolka such a "sweetheart deal" and to reveal the stark realities of these sadistic team killings would cast a very poor light on the Canadian justice system.

For example, the official files on Karla Homolka reveal that she has never been diagnosed as a sadist or a psychopath and that she should not be considered a dangerous person. Most experts and observers would dispute these official findings.

I've read about the hair and fingernails and other brutal acts in a few places (and, for the record internet and usenet groups were the most accurate places to get the news on this case before the publication ban was lifted). I don't know exactly what's true and what's not-- but I do believe there's a lot of variability out there concerning the details. And I don't know that anyone but Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo will ever know the true details of their crimes. I don't put much past them, but, as with all things -- we just read whatever info is out there and take it with a grain of salt.
 
Unbelievable, that she is able to have a normal life at all.

Something is wrong with this picture!
 
I went back and asked some legal buds in Canada what they thought of the rumors posted about this story. They said the publication ban is lifted once the case has a resolution. They heard mild rumors about a couple of torn finger nails, Kristens hair all being chopped off but nothing like the violence listed here.

I'm not discounting the information at all, please understand that.

I am speculating because there were so many people that attended this trial, I feel it would be common knowledge if this is what Karla did to the girls. They would have been able to (as in Bernardo) use a 'dangerous offender' status while she was still in jail should the evidence have proved to be that Karla tortured the girls, so says my lawyer buds. Essentially keeping her in jail indefinitely. It would be difficult but if the evidence is there that Karla specifically tortured these girls on video, the chances of winning dangerous offender status may have succeeded.
 
redheadedgal said:
from the soc.culture.filipino link:

Part of the delay in the trial was to allow the RCMP to
conclude a special investigation. Mounted police detectives
traveled to Japan and tried to procure Bernardo's `home' snuff
videos. The video's were evidently circulating in the Japanese
sex underground. Bernardo's sex crimes were a money making
venture. This would account for his high living standards while
unemployed.


i never read about any of this in the books i read either, jane. no japan. no sold snuff tapes. bernardo smuggled large amounts of cigarettes from the US into Canada and sold them locally. apparently, he made good money doing this. additionally, leslie was not dismembered while alive.


i may have missed a few things so if others who have read the legit books care to read that link and add to this list, it might be helpful to our members who want to know the truth. if you choose to assist, thanks :)
Click to expand...

There are no snuff videos from Bernardo's crimes. This I can say is a false rumor. The tapes have NEVER reached the public. Bernardo's lawyer retrieved the tapes, watched them, locked them up, quit the case, obtained legal advice of his own and then turned them over to Paul's new lawyer.
 
PattyCake said:
I went back and asked some legal buds in Canada what they thought of the rumors posted about this story. They said the publication ban is lifted once the case has a resolution. They heard mild rumors about a couple of torn finger nails, Kristens hair all being chopped off but nothing like the violence listed here.

I'm not discounting the information at all, please understand that.

I am speculating because there were so many people that attended this trial, I feel it would be common knowledge if this is what Karla did to the girls. They would have been able to (as in Bernardo) use a 'dangerous offender' status while she was still in jail should the evidence have proved to be that Karla tortured the girls, so says my lawyer buds. Essentially keeping her in jail indefinitely. It would be difficult but if the evidence is there that Karla specifically tortured these girls on video, the chances of winning dangerous offender status may have succeeded.
Click to expand...

I've read that during the trial, the Court played most of the tapes as audio-only-- so that the majority of the video footage was never seen during the proceedings. Do you know if this is true?
 
nancy botwin said:
I've read that during the trial, the Court played most of the tapes as audio-only-- so that the majority of the video footage was never seen during the proceedings. Do you know if this is true?
Click to expand...

That's what I've read as well, yes. I believe the jury, judge, lawyers & bernardo viewed the tapes, the TV was turned away from the rest of the crowd.

It could be that this occured, the violence spoken about here and we may never know. Quite frankly, I really never want to know the truth.
 
nancy botwin said:
I think there's something somewhat unique about the Bernardo/Homolka case-- from what I understand a lot of details and specifics have never been officially released or confirmed. The publication ban was initially imposed to ensure Bernardo had a fair trial, but I've read that the Crown later acknowledged that the ban and attendant limitations on publicity were also to protect the victims' families. There's also some conspiracy theory that evidence and details have continued to be suppressed because the Crown gave Karla Homolka such a "sweetheart deal" and to reveal the stark realities of these sadistic team killings would cast a very poor light on the Canadian justice system.

For example, the official files on Karla Homolka reveal that she has never been diagnosed as a sadist or a psychopath and that she should not be considered a dangerous person. Most experts and observers would dispute these official findings.

I've read about the hair and fingernails and other brutal acts in a few places (and, for the record internet and usenet groups were the most accurate places to get the news on this case before the publication ban was lifted). I don't know exactly what's true and what's not-- but I do believe there's a lot of variability out there concerning the details. And I don't know that anyone but Karla Homolka and Paul Bernardo will ever know the true details of their crimes. I don't put much past them, but, as with all things -- we just read whatever info is out there and take it with a grain of salt.
Click to expand...


Thanks Nancy and Patty

Id ont know that I really want to know either. But we might as well assume the worst

Why Karla is out I will never understand :(

I had a quick look at the link u supplied and from how I see it potrayed she was the victim ? as in thats how they were trying to potray it

do you think that is why she got off so lightly ?
And do you think she was a victim to him in anyway shape or form?
 
PattyCake said:
That's what I've read as well, yes. I believe the jury, judge, lawyers & bernardo viewed the tapes, the TV was turned away from the rest of the crowd.

It could be that this occured, the violence spoken about here and we may never know. Quite frankly, I really never want to know the truth.
Click to expand...


Thanks for answering-- I haven't read a ton about this case for similar reasons. It's just too upsetting. Ordinarily, I like to know everything I can about something that interests me, but after I read about what they did to Karla's sister, I couldn't deal. Too horrid.
 
Ok im watching this...

they are potraying it as Karla being the victim of Paul..

that she was obsessed with him, to keep him interested in her

IS that how it went down or is this a pro Karla vid ?
 
jane, see my responses in purple:

JaneInOz said:
Why Karla is out I will never understand :(

the book karla: apwtd explains this in detail (her initial sentence, the plea bargaining dilemma, adding a few measly years -2- to her sentence for killing her sister etc) ... as well, several posters attempted to explain this in previous posts... it is hard to understand (and accept) but that's the way it is unfortunately.

do you think that is why she got off so lightly ?

yes, she and her lawyer portrayed her as a helpless woman at the mercy of her abusive husband... they used a body of research about "the compliant victim of the sexual sadist" in her defense: in a nutshell, it explained karla's criminal behavior as that of a woman under a spell, beaten into submission by a sexual sadist, not entirely responsible for her own actions, and therefore as much as a victim as an accomplice. (karla: apwtd, 2003, p. 147) ... the tapes tell a different story though... apparently, she looked and sounded like she enjoyed the sex aspects with the girls... to me, that doesn't fit the profile of being made to do something. if this were the case, these things should've disgusted her, not pleased her. plus, she was the person who could've set these girls free when paul was out... running errands, getting food, selling cigarettes... why didn't she - especially if this was all done against her will? kristen BEGGED karla to let her go... so sad. i cannot even begin to imagine the terror those young women went through. i've wanted to take flowers to their graves... maybe this summer i will.

And do you think she was a victim to him in anyway shape or form?

she was... paul beat her up a lot... there is a pic in karla: apwtd of a brutal beating he gave her leaving her two hugely bruised black eyes... she actually left him after this beating.
Click to expand...

 
JaneInOz said:
Ok im watching this...

they are potraying it as Karla being the victim of Paul..

that she was obsessed with him, to keep him interested in her
Click to expand...


i'd say yes. she felt very "special" that a man as gorgeous and sexy as paul picked her, lavished her with attention, loved her... she would have done anything to keep him IMO... and she obviously did (putting up with beatings, stealing drugs/meds fr. work, assisting w/ the drugging/rape/torture/killing of several women...) BUT while she was a victim to him in the sense he beat her, i don't believe she did much of what she did to those girls just b/c he made her. she got a certain level of pleasure too.
 
Hiya Red

But that is what I mean, Im watching the movie Im up to the next girl that he takes and sadly for this girl Karla removes the blindfold and the girl looks up into Pauls face as Karla is about to um :blush: go down on the girl
From what I see, she is left on her own prior ot this in the house the jealousy eating away at her, so much that she will do anything for her *king* to please him and have him love her and never leave her
For her, what is it to do these acts to these girls if it gets in his good books

It seemed that after he went away for TEN DAYS to florida, thats when she started freaking and changed into becoming whatever he wanted her to be

Plus his violence to her escalated

This is what the movie is portraying to me so far
 
Lol ok we were cross posting at the same time
I was replying to your answers in purple
heheh
 
JaneInOz said:
Ok im watching this...

they are potraying it as Karla being the victim of Paul..

that she was obsessed with him, to keep him interested in her

IS that how it went down or is this a pro Karla vid ?
Click to expand...

I actually started to watch the movie once and stopped because I didn't realize the film would pander so much to the "victim Karla" mythology. IMO she's not a victim. As redheadedgal pointed out, there are photos of Karla with SEVERE bruising/black eyes -- it's hard to look at the photos and not think of Karla as a victim. But IMO Paul & Karla's relationship was SO aberrant, it's outside of "normal" ways of thinking. They were sexually aroused by violence and brutality-- IMO both sadists and Karla also seemed to be masochistic. She's attracted to sadistic men-- while in prison, she began a relationship with Jean-Paul -- I forget his name-- but a man who strangled his girlfriend and was incarcerated in the same facility as Karla for awhile.

She was diagnosed as suffering from battered women's syndrome, but a court-appointed psychiatrist further explained "Karla Homolka remains something of a diagnostic mystery. Despite her ability to present herself very well, there is a moral vacuity in her which is difficult if not impossible to explain."

She also dutifully studied psychology during her incarceration-- IMO this helped her to perfect her ability to manipulate everyone who evaluated her. She's also super smart-- an IQ of 132-- that's in the top 2%. She's never expressed true remorse for her crime or accepted full accountability-- even for raping and murdering her own sister. She also tucked an invitation to Karla & Paul's wedding and a picture of the couple into her sister's coffin (IMO a sadistic wink because Paul allegedly had a big crush on the sister).
She's just straight evil, IMO, and was always a willing and eager participant in the MANY brutal acts the couple perpetrated.

I know you can't "see" evil-- but if you could, I think you can come close to glimpsing it in Karla-- her eyes are cold and blank looking. She did an interview after her release-- you can watch it here if you're interested http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/homolka_interview.html
It's in French, but subtitled.
 
nancy botwin said:
I actually started to watch the movie once and stopped because I didn't realize the film would pander so much to the "victim Karla" mythology. IMO she's not a victim. As redheadedgal pointed out, there are photos of Karla with SEVERE bruising/black eyes -- it's hard to look at the photos and not think of Karla as a victim. But IMO Paul & Karla's relationship was SO aberrant, it's outside of "normal" ways of thinking. They were sexually aroused by violence and brutality-- IMO both sadists and Karla also seemed to be masochistic. She's attracted to sadistic men-- while in prison, she began a relationship with Jean-Paul -- I forget his name-- but a man who strangled his girlfriend and was incarcerated in the same facility as Karla for awhile.

She was diagnosed as suffering from battered women's syndrome, but a court-appointed psychiatrist further explained "Karla Homolka remains something of a diagnostic mystery. Despite her ability to present herself very well, there is a moral vacuity in her which is difficult if not impossible to explain."

She also dutifully studied psychology during her incarceration-- IMO this helped her to perfect her ability to manipulate everyone who evaluated her. She's also super smart-- an IQ of 132-- that's in the top 2%. She's never expressed true remorse for her crime or accepted full accountability-- even for raping and murdering her own sister. She also tucked an invitation to Karla & Paul's wedding and a picture of the couple into her sister's coffin (IMO a sadistic wink because Paul allegedly had a big crush on the sister).
She's just straight evil, IMO, and was always a willing and eager participant in the MANY brutal acts the couple perpetrated.

I know you can't "see" evil-- but if you could, I think you can come close to glimpsing it in Karla-- her eyes are cold and blank looking. She did an interview after her release-- you can watch it here if you're interested http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/bernardo/homolka_interview.html
It's in French, but subtitled.
Click to expand...

Thankyou for showing me that

I watched most of that - I think her eyes are dead/cold/blank because of what she has done.

I would need to talk to her one on one :eek: to really know, and have a true gut feeling but from what I have *limitedly* read and watched I think MAYBE She was just consumed and obsessed by Paul, she had a high sex drive whcih fueled it with him.I think she did things out of fear pyshical and emotional
It has been well known that women ( and some men) can do unbelievable things when obsessed by another person.
They kill for them, they steal for them they do anything for them - look at Aileen Woomeras (spelling!)
There are many many crimes of passion (disgusting but never the less done out of some sick warped loyalty obsession)

I DEFINITELY believe that Paul was a complete pyscho only interested in his OWN self gratification But Karla...hmmm I have my doubts that she was the same as him

sorry i know that wont be popular with you all... but I can only say what i feel...

I will have to read more...! but not at the current book prices!
 
PattyCake said:
I went back and asked some legal buds in Canada what they thought of the rumors posted about this story. They said the publication ban is lifted once the case has a resolution. They heard mild rumors about a couple of torn finger nails, Kristens hair all being chopped off but nothing like the violence listed here.

I'm not discounting the information at all, please understand that.

I am speculating because there were so many people that attended this trial, I feel it would be common knowledge if this is what Karla did to the girls. They would have been able to (as in Bernardo) use a 'dangerous offender' status while she was still in jail should the evidence have proved to be that Karla tortured the girls, so says my lawyer buds. Essentially keeping her in jail indefinitely. It would be difficult but if the evidence is there that Karla specifically tortured these girls on video, the chances of winning dangerous offender status may have succeeded.
Click to expand...


ITA - as i posted earlier. the details that have emerged are so horrifying and disturbing, why hold a few less important details back? additionally, as i've stated previously as well, a pic of part of leslie in cement was published... if any detail were to be kept from the public, i'd hope it would've been that. these things make me believe there isn't much we haven't heard. of course, i could be wrong.

there used to be a professor in my criminology department who was asked to assist with the bernardo-homolka case (her expertise is in forensics... and her specialty is reconstructing a face from a skull)... she declined. she wanted nothing to do with the case! i wonder if i can track her down and ask her a few questions... she left the university a few years ago but if i can get a hold of her, i'm sure she'll tell me what she knows... (if anyone would have the inside 411, i'd bet on her).

interesting/scary story: one day she told us she knew of a lady who had mentioned that her purse was missing (i have no memory of the details of how it went missing) ... her purse -THAT PURSE!- was found in paul and karla's house when it searched by LE after their killing spree/capture :eek::eek:
 
redheadedgal said:
ITA - as i posted earlier. the details that have emerged are so horrifying and disturbing, why hold a few less important details back? additionally, as i've stated previously as well, a pic of part of leslie in cement was published... if any detail were to be kept from the public, i'd hope it would've been that. these things make me believe there isn't much we haven't heard. of course, i could be wrong.

there used to be a professor in my criminology department who was asked to assist with the bernardo-homolka case (her expertise is in forensics... and her specialty is reconstructing a face from a skull)... she declined. she wanted nothing to do with the case! i wonder if i can track her down and ask her a few questions... she left the university a few years ago but if i can get a hold of her, i'm sure she'll tell me what she knows... (if anyone would have the inside 411, i'd bet on her).

interesting/scary story: one day she told us she knew of a lady who had mentioned that her purse was missing (i have no memory of the details of how it went missing) ... her purse -THAT PURSE!- was found in paul and karla's house when it searched by LE after their killing spree/capture :eek::eek:
Click to expand...

OMG to all of that !

So part of Leslies body ? what does that mean ? have you seen the photo ? do you have the book ? can you scan and email it to me ? I will pm you my email addy ...

Why would they put that in the book ? to sell it ? or to show how sick they were ?

Wow to your professor - not wanting to touch the case !!! it would be great if you could find her and ask her

And the purse OMG - how did it end up at their house I wonder :eek:
 
JaneInOz said:
Thankyou for showing me that

I watched most of that - I think her eyes are dead/cold/blank because of what she has done.

I would need to talk to her one one one :eek: to really know, and have a true gut feeling but from what I have *limitedly* read and watched I think MAYBE She was just consumed and obsessed by Paul, she had a high sex drive whcih fueled it with him.I think she did things out of fear pyshical and emotional
It has been well known that women ( and some men) can do unbelievable things when obsessed by another person.
They kill for them, they steal for them they do anything for them - look at Aileen Woomeras (spelling!)
There are many many crimes of passion (disgusting but never the less done out of some sick warped loyalty obsession)

I DEFINITELY believe that Paul was a complete pyscho only interested in his OWN self gratification But Karla...hmmm I have my doubts that she was the same as him

sorry i know that wont be popular with you all... but I can only say what i feel...

I will have to read more...! but not at the current book prices!
Click to expand...

aw, Jane, you're a softy ;)
I understand where you're coming from and you could of course be right.

And it's interesting you bring up Aileen Wuornos-- I have more sympathy/understanding for Wuornos than I have for Karla Homolka. But if you're right that Wuornos killed out of obsessive love and dedication-- it's interesting to compare her to Karla.
Karla did NOT hesitate to sell Paul Bernardo out the minute she got the chance. She made the best deal she could for herself and never looked back or worried about what would happen to her "King"/"master"/true love/hypnotic abuser. Would Karla be so quick to turn on Paul and give the Crown evidence against him if she were completely under his control and totally dedicated to him?
Wuornos, on the other hand, confessed at the urging of the woman she loved, partly to keep her from being pursued as a suspect.
Also, reports have indicated that Paul Bernardo is still fascinated/fixated with Karla. Karla, on the other hand, moved on quickly after giving the Crown evidence to ensure Paul's conviction -- she developed relationships with other inmates and is now married.

Personally, I think Karla is worse than Paul Bernardo. And I don't think it's unreasonable to contemplate that Karla was pulling the strings more than Paul. She's BAD.
 
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