MO - Lisa Irwin, 10 months, Kansas City, 4 Oct 2011 - #7

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I find it interesting to go back and look at news articles from the first day or two when a person goes missing.

Just found this from Reuters on Day 1:

Police said it appeared someone had entered and left through a bedroom window and evidence suggested an abduction.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/us-crime-baby-kidnapping-idUSTRE7940JI20111005

Did we ever find out what evidence they were referring to that suggested an abduction?
 
I find it interesting to go back and look at news articles from the first day or two when a person goes missing.

Just found this from Reuters on Day 1:

Police said it appeared someone had entered and left through a bedroom window and evidence suggested an abduction.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/us-crime-baby-kidnapping-idUSTRE7940JI20111005

Did we ever find out what evidence they were referring to that suggested an abduction?

Hmm. Well, the dad stated the window was open when he arrived home.
 
Sorry if this has been posted, but when was the last time baby Lisa was seen by any one other than her parents?
 
I don't think that the TV crew would adjust the height of the mattress. First of all, I'm not sure about that particular set-up but when we adjusted the height of our DD's mattress in her crib, we had to untie/move/retie the bumper.[/QUOTE


Wonder why the bag was put over the window?

I think that it is possible that they took the whole crib apart looking for evidence and someone put it back together that way? I doubt the parents have been in there rearranging her room.
 
I actually took a break from the thread and spent some time visiting with my mother last night so I may have missed anything new but when last I was on, Fox news had reported an "unnamed source close to the investigation" or some such had provided them with the tip about a phone call from the home at 2:30. I do not know if that has ever been vetted anywhere else.

I tend to be suspicious of "unnamed sources" and am skeptical that people "close to the investigation" would be blabbing to the press, although I am sure it does happen sometimes.

Does anyone know, has the 2:30 phone call been covered in other press or have we ever gotten anything more about that? TIA


Hmmm. Someone posted yesterday that it was unnamed LE sources. I wonder which is right?

If it was simply "unnamed source close to the investigation" it could be someone connected to LE, family, or even the service carrier for the phone, since any of those could have seen or overheard this info or even been asked about it by LE.:waitasec:
 
Where can I see this pic you are talking about, can anyone post the pic or the link to it again, please. I know its here somewhere....TIA

When you find it, please also note that the dust ruffle that goes UNDER the mattress is caught up under it or snagged on the metal spring base somehow on the right hand side of the mattress. This indicates (to me at least) that the bed was taken apart and then put back together less than perfectly----or not in the same way it was found. The items inside the bed also would indicate they were placed there by someone who was either searching through them or moving them in the process of cleaning up the room after LE left the scene.

jmo
 
I find it interesting to go back and look at news articles from the first day or two when a person goes missing.

Just found this from Reuters on Day 1:

Police said it appeared someone had entered and left through a bedroom window and evidence suggested an abduction.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/us-crime-baby-kidnapping-idUSTRE7940JI20111005

Did we ever find out what evidence they were referring to that suggested an abduction?
I can't remember any, unless it was just the window thing. I thought at the time they were referring to something else, inside the house, that might have been hinky and suggested an abduction.
 
Where can I see this pic you are talking about, can anyone post the pic or the link to it again, please. I know its here somewhere....TIA

Here you go...

d6alt.jpg

http://yfrog.com/kld6altj
I can't believe the bedding is still on the crib! Why didn't LE take the bedding and test it for DNA, there could be fingerprints on the railing of the crib, hairs, eyelashes, or splash DNA on the bedding from a possible sneeze or cough by the kidnapper. I just can't believe the bedding is still on the crib. :eek:
 
Sorry if this has been posted, but when was the last time baby Lisa was seen by any one other than her parents?

I don't know if it was the last time, but a grandparent was quoted in the news as saying she had been at a family gathering celebrating a birthday on Sunday.
 
Sorry if this has been posted, but when was the last time baby Lisa was seen by any one other than her parents?


10:30. The mom checked on her before she (the mom) went to bed.

Ooops I'm sorry, I didn't read it clearly.


Yes, the bday party.
 
I have to apologize to you for that. I have modified the article and put an edit note at the end explaining my thoughts. I don't normally let my conjecture come out as fact like that and as soon as a member asked me how I knew that is when I realized I had done a tremendously bad error of stating my conjecture as fact.

It is fixed now. So my apologies for speaking as if that was fact.

The problem I have is that at 2:30 pm on Tuesday we had two things stated by LE working the case: 1. Statement made to Fox 4 that NOTHING else was missing from the home, and 2. A statement made by Capt. Steve Young that there was no indication, other than possible tampering with the window, to indicate an intruder broke into the home.

While we still don't know what time exactly Lisa was reported missing, from 4 am to 2:30 pm, with the intense questioning Deborah and Jeremy are describing, I maintain that the police having no knowledge of missing phones that late in the day is a bad bad thing.

BBM. LE, in this video, says they received the call at approximately 4am. Not exact time, but it does narrow it down a tad from 2:30pm.

http://videos.kansascity.com/vmix_hosted_apps/p/media?id=114425451
 
Now after looking at the picture again, I do think the crib was examined closely and the mattress removed (at a minimum). If you look closely, you can see the left end of the mattress isn't even lying flat but looks as if it may be just been dumped back in there.

ETA: Also, the bumper at the right end: it is only a few inches above the top of the mattress. The height of the mattress may have been moved up and the bumper not adjusted, or the mattress may have been dumped back in there and not pushed down all the way. I'm now thinking that this is not the 'crib-as-Lisa-slept-in-it' but the 'crib-after-LE-went-over-it-with-a-fine-tooth-comb'.... MOO
 
I agree with scrapping the poly in this case. My son failed one too...given by LE in a case where he was accused of theft. He was grilled mercilessly and a few days later, the accuser located the item he said my son had stolen....it was there in his home all the time, just misplaced. So yes, innocent people do fail them.

The glaring things I cannot get beyond are the unusual ones.
1. The door unlocked on hubby's first night at work.
2. The lights on....what kidnapper does this? None.
3. The kidnapper had to spend time in the house....no one woke up.
4. All the cell phones kept in the same location in the main room without one being
taken into the bedroom with mom? Who cares about reprogramming. Cell phones
are extremely portable. I don't know anyone who wouldn't carry a phone into
their bedroom at night if they were alone with 3 children and hubby was at his
first night on his new job....unless they had a house phone in the bedroom.
5. No scent of baby outside that could be followed. Don't know what to make of
this. Doesn't sound right to me.
6. Dad's version of checking on the kids. Logic would say you would stop at each
child's room as you go down the hallway, which would mean checking on Lisa first.
Also, if he did check on the boys first, would he not freak when one of the sons
was not in his bed? He was sleeping with mom, supposedly...so his bed would
have also been empty.
 

Yeah about that. I've heard it said they have an attorney. And I have heard the family denied it. But one thing I wonder about is their media interviews. Any attorney would be advising them to stay away from media. So either they don't have an attorney or they aren't listening to the attorney.

The teen. How many days are we into this missing case? And they just now came up with the teen? The teen who was there that day and access codes? I wonder how long ago he was given the access codes? I do have to wonder if DB's mother or brother was there that day and if it was known that they knew the access codes, would they also have been under suspicion? IOW I think part of the reason he was on the list is because of his age. And that he wasn't related to the family.

The baby in California. It seems like there is always a baby/child in a faraway state (usually Calif.) in missing children's cases.
 
I find it interesting to go back and look at news articles from the first day or two when a person goes missing.

Just found this from Reuters on Day 1:

Police said it appeared someone had entered and left through a bedroom window and evidence suggested an abduction.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/05/us-crime-baby-kidnapping-idUSTRE7940JI20111005

Did we ever find out what evidence they were referring to that suggested an abduction?

Also, LE stated both parents were present, cooperating and there were no holes in their stories.
 
Wow, these things are so revealing about how wrong they can be! And even less trusted is handwriting analysis but I took several classes in this from a renowned graphologist who used to work for Scotland Yard and it can reveal so much. There are so many traits for deception. She has solved so many crimes. You have the person write a normal paragraph about what they did that day with the last sentence saying, for instance, "I had nothing to do with my daughter's disappearance." If you get a bunch of these and the guilty party is among them, you will see a handwriting change (99% of the time) when they get to the "the lie". It's a slant change usually. But there are rare cases where pathological liars convince themselves they didn't do it, and it might not show in their handwriting sample.

Oh -- in these cases where she used this technique, the guilty party who ended up confessing was the handwriting sample she gave to the bosses telling them to question that person further.

OUCH! I must be a very "deceptive" person , my handwriting can change "slants" in a heart beat!
Ok.....talking about the LDT's........could the accuracy of and the interpretation of them have a LOT to do with who administers and interprets them? I think they must have SOME beneficial value or they would just be abandoned altogether. OR, is the "tool" used mainly just to "rattle" people? Just asking.
 
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