CA - Chelsea King (17) Rancho Bernardo (north San Diego County) #1

TravelingBug,

I had a question for you since you are familiar with the area, if you don't mind answering.

After seeing the pictures you posted of the park and surrounding areas, it seems almost crazy to me to think the security guard at Casa actually saw Chelsea park and get out of her car to start running. I could be wrong (and that's why I am asking you) but in the picture you showed where it shows the Rec Center, where her car was parked, and Casa at the very top of the picture, it seems like a pretty far distance for him to have been able to notice her, let alone be certain it was Chelsea. Am I way off on this? I know pictures can be deceiving sometimes, especially when it comes to distance.

Also, I'm not sure how accessible those houses are from the trails but is it possible that someone who was also "jogging" on the trail started making small talk with Chelsea and lured her to a nearby house for some reason? Just a thought.

Does anyone know if horses are being used to access the areas that people cant manage? This looks to me as if alot of this area could be searched by horseback.

TheMentalist said:

Does anyone know if horses are being used to access the areas that people cant manage? This looks to me as if alot of this area could be searched by horseback.

Click to expand...

I know TES is going to be involved (they're already in southern California looking for the McStay family who is also missing) and I'd assume they would bring in horses, if horses aren't already being used.

TRL said:

TravelingBug,

I had a question for you since you are familiar with the area, if you don't mind answering.

After seeing the pictures you posted of the park and surrounding areas, it seems almost crazy to me to think the security guard at Casa actually saw Chelsea park and get out of her car to start running. I could be wrong (and that's why I am asking you) but in the picture you showed where it shows the Rec Center, where her car was parked, and Casa at the very top of the picture, it seems like a pretty far distance for him to have been able to notice her, let alone be certain it was Chelsea. Am I way off on this? I know pictures can be deceiving sometimes, especially when it comes to distance.

Also, I'm not sure how accessible those houses are from the trails but is it possible that someone who was also "jogging" on the trail started making small talk with Chelsea and lured her to a nearby house for some reason? Just a thought.

Click to expand...

TRL,

To be honest, I agree. I find it hard to believe that the guard saw her unless a) he was actually in the park (on break or for some other reason) or b) she was running on the paths in the park or the trails that go along the street which would pass by Casa. I truly don't think there is anyway that from the Casa property he could have seen her on the trails that are behind the park where they believe she was running.

If the weather's nice tomorrow I'll try to take some pictures for you after church to show the perspective better.

I don't really buy the fact that she went the directions of the Westwood homes either. There are far better trails that wouldn't bring her over there and it really just doesn't make sense.

Though, if she were running along the trails off of West Bernardo (the ones that are more parallel to the freeway by the street parking lots in the ballpark labeled photo I posted earlier) those would bring her nearer the homes that begin at Aguamiel. That's also the area where the helicopter and steady search lights had been for several hours yesterday, so that's not out of the realm of possibility...but still, they were more over the traills and West Bernardo. One one home is truly ON West Bernardo in that area, and it's the corner home on Aguamiel where the bulk of the post-fire construction is still being done on those homes. The other homes that back up to West Bernardo actually cause you to take a surface street to get to them, otherwise it's only big walls of backyards that face the street.

It's definitely possible that she passed someone also out "jogging" who struck up conversation and tried to lure her away, but it'd be hard to lure her into a home because they're just too far away.

Way up by Moon Song, etc. near the Legends neighborhood in Westwood, etc. the trails do get nearer to homes, it's just not a likely direction for her to have run, since the trails by the lake area are much more scenic and enjoyable to run. Plus they seem to have something that indicates her staying more near the lake or the trails off of West Bernardo than the ones heading more southwest into the back part of the Westwood neighborhood.

I'll see if I can do a map and mark it to explain what I mean

TheMentalist said:

Does anyone know if horses are being used to access the areas that people cant manage? This looks to me as if alot of this area could be searched by horseback.

Click to expand...

There are definitely riding trails in the area and it's not uncommon to see horses, and I know many horse riders had volunteered, but I've not heard definitively if they have been out. They do use them by LE in Poway, so I suspect given them using every other means to search that at least they are being used by authorities. I'll try to find out in the morning.

TheMentalist said:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/photos/galleries/2010/feb/27/search-chelsea-king/

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting those!

That is the area where I was saying there's the only home that actually is up against West Bernardo at the corner of Augamiel.

The path where the searchers are walking in this photo is just a bit south of where the steady light was last night, and then just east of that is where the helicopter was hovering a lot (surprising since this is south of the park and away from the lake) It's that portion of the path they are on essentially parallels West Bernardo for part of it after you get past the parking lots along the street.

TravelingBug said:

Please also pray for Chelsea's brother, he's 13 and close to his sister and is just devastated about his sister being missing.

Click to expand...

I have to say I heard on a news broadcast that Chelsea was an only child but I guess we are getting alot of wrong information via the press and the news coverage.

Ok, maybe this will help - but google maps is labeled wrong in a few spots if you use it (the Joselyn Center, etc. are mismarked - they are actually in the park area, not where indicated, just if you look at google maps) PLUS it looks very weird b/c this is post fire and so houses aren't shown where they are, and you can't see the trails as easily in places because the brush had been burnt at this point

I think if you click on the link then you can zoom to see it better

The yellow money sign is where the reported robbery attack occurred in December

The two pink dots are the West Bernardo street parking and lots that are most widely used by people going to the park to run and/or at lunch. Those are on and/or right off the street so very accesible and where trucks often are.

The blue car is where Chelsea's car was parked (but it dropped it on the rec center building so it'd show up easily)

The blue placemarker with the black dot is the one home that actually is accessible from West Bernardo, so that shows where the only street facing house is, otherwise it's just the walled off yards, etc.

The red circled area is where the helicopter and steady light were last night for quite awhile.

The green bike is where the bridge now crosses to the north side of the lake to the Escondido side.

They were water searching the area by the bridge through to the 'finger' of the lake that goes behind the park.

Here's another view

TravelingBug said:

I don't really buy the fact that she went the directions of the Westwood homes either. There are far better trails that wouldn't bring her over there and it really just doesn't make sense.

Click to expand...

It does occur to me though that we should not rule out her deciding to take a route that doesn't "make sense," as it were. After all, if she ran into somebody on the trail who gave her a creepy feeling, she might have made a deliberate decision to head in the opposite direction of that person. (Just a thought!)

TravelingBug said:

...

The path where the searchers are walking in this photo is just a bit south of where the steady light was last night, and then just east of that is where the helicopter was hovering a lot (surprising since this is south of the park and away from the lake) It's that portion of the path they are on essentially parallels West Bernardo for part of it after you get past the parking lots along the street.

Click to expand...

That photo looks to me to be just north of Alborada Dr. I recognize the four houses and the trees (on the east end, near the court). Its the trail that crosses the little stream/finger off of Lake Hodges. If you go west, that's where MoonSong and Monticook are. Still near the lake, though not the most scenic, but well within running distance. If you go east, that's where Aguamiel is, also possible, but less scenic still.

Ghostwheel said:

That photo looks to me to be just north of Alborada Dr. I recognize the four houses and the trees (on the east end, near the court). Its the trail that crosses the little stream off of Lake Hodges. If you go west, that's where MoonSong and Monticook are. Still near the lake, though not the most scenic, but well within running distance.

Click to expand...

I could see her running to the trails by the lake in that area, I just don't see her running the trails that get into the neighborhoods...like south of Moon Song where it hits Poblado (where the other attack happened). Those trails behind the homes by the lake, though, yeah. I probably didn't word what I meant earlier clearly enough!

There are also the fire truck and SDG&E maintenance access roads that run the ridge above Legends (Moon Song, Sun Maiden, High Mesa, etc.) From my yard in Legends I used to periodically see them using the road there, but that was definitely rare and they were always careful to gate it. The paths that go up near that road, though, gives a great view of the lake, etc. for running. I could see her heading up there, as well.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2...arch-for-teen/


In the comments section someone recounted the Dec 2009 attack on a jogger nearby that area. The more I read into that account of the more it sounds like a possible rape more than a robbery. He knocked her down then wanted her money - she's a jogger, afterall, and you don't expect joggers to have cash or wallets on them.

I have read about today's search, but not much mention was made of dog searches. Were there any dogs out there today? I'm exhausted with worry and am concerned for the parents being able to hold up. What a blessing Amber Dubois parents have been there helping. It breaks my heart to see parents having to go through this kind of experience.

Chelsea has a brother, only 13. I will say a special prayer for him.

TravelingBug said:

I could see her running to the trails by the lake in that area, I just don't see her running the trails that get into the neighborhoods...like south of Moon Song where it hits Poblado (where the other attack happened). Those trails behind the homes by the lake, though, yeah. I probably didn't word what I meant earlier clearly enough!

There are also the fire truck and SDG&E maintenance access roads that run the ridge above Legends (Moon Song, Sun Maiden, High Mesa, etc.) From my yard in Legends I used to periodically see them using the road there, but that was definitely rare and they were always careful to gate it. The paths that go up near that road, though, gives a great view of the lake, etc. for running. I could see her heading up there, as well.

Click to expand...

I was thinking of the Piedras Pintadas trail. It's about four miles round trip, goes up a nice little hill, it's one I would have taken. That's just one of the few places I see that gets near a road. Check out this website http://travismcmahan.com/hikes/Hikes.aspx?p=2 go to the Piedras Pintadas trail and click the little square next to the name. A map pops up and you can see a trail from the Community Center around the southern edge of the lake. The curve at the southern most portion of the page is where that picture of the searchers indicated before was taken. They were just below that trail, looking south into the housing tract. Check out the pictures, too, it helps to visualize the area.

OK, now I didn't realize the other attack took place on Poblado (I just didn't put 2 and 2 together, duh). That seems awfully close. Not that I think she would be running there, mind you, but if the person who attacked the woman previously frequents the area, he could enter the trails at the end of one of those streets. (not meaning to frighten anyone, just a thought)

Still raining.

Haven't heard the chopper in hours - not sure if it's because of the weather or because what they're saying, even hours ago, indicates they believe she's not going to be found on land in the areas surrounding the park and thus the helicopter wouldn't be useful.

KFMB (8) at 11 pm:

Investigators are staying out searching, even in the water, throughout tonight. They are saying it's amazing how much effort and manpower is going into the search.

They are hopeful that infrared would have picked up heat from her, and since it didn't, that's also part of why they are focusing on the water.

Laura Recovery Center was organizing the search with LEO.

15-20 FBI agents have been out going door to door. Boarder patrol is also out. 300 homes nearest the lake/park area have been canvased by authorities.

KGTV (10) at 11 pm:

Search effort not slowing down despite the poor weather and persistent rain. There is a special area at the search area at the park just for family and friends.

In and directly around Lake Hodges are the main focus. Dive teams combed the water and the helicopter was low over the lake earlier today.

Fliers are being circulated from LA to Mexico in targeted and organized efforts.

The outpouring of support shows how beloved she is to so many.

Authorities only are out tonight, volunteers not again until morning.

SDSU's drones are going over the area tomorrow.

TES scouted locations over the area for their search and will split their drone and search time between the McStay family and Chelsea's area.

KNSD (7/39) at 11 pm:

Authorities say they won't let up in efforts to find her.

Sheriff says more they search the more areas they can eliminate, and until they find her, they won't stop the search. They continue to look for any physical evidence for who might abduct her (words straight from the sheriff, so they're definitely looking the abduction route).

Sheriff Gore definitely seems persistent about the fact that they will find her and keeping looking until it happens. He comes across as really taking this personally and wanting to see it resolved quickly.

Amber's father was there helping search.

The family continues to be touched by the support.

Hundreds were turned away...they'll start again at 9 am (at 11858 Bernardo Plaza Ct., SD 92128), it'll help if people pre-print documents (three sets of this document)...and you can stagger start at the center to help with the backlog of people.

Curious, yes, the dogs were out again today. They requested no civilian dogs out to not interfere with the search dogs.

Ghostwheel said:

I was thinking of the Piedras Pintadas trail. It's about four miles round trip, goes up a nice little hill, it's one I would have taken. That's just one of the few places I see that gets near a road. Check out this website http://travismcmahan.com/hikes/Hikes.aspx?p=2 go to the Piedras Pintadas trail and click the little square next to the name. A map pops up and you can see a trail from the Community Center around the southern edge of the lake. The curve at the southern most portion of the page is where that picture of the searchers indicated before was taken. They were just below that trail, looking south into the housing tract. Check out the pictures, too, it helps to visualize the area.

Click to expand...

I agree about Piedras, I used to run that from Legends, as well.

By the loop on Piedras is where I was meaning that then you can go up to where it hits the access road there on the ridge. The end of Moon Song is really the one place it's closest to the homes, though I think that one home on the end is one of the ones that burned during the fire. I'll have to drive by and look again to see which it is that's closest to the trail and which it was that burned.

On that map where it says South Lake Hodges trail there's another loop-ish area (not entirely visible on that link) that is another area where I could see her adding terrain to rain, and that's where I believe they were indicating the shoe/pedometer were found yesterday.

TravelingBug said:

Ok, maybe this will help - but google maps is labeled wrong in a few spots if you use it (the Joselyn Center, etc. are mismarked - they are actually in the park area, not where indicated, just if you look at google maps) PLUS it looks very weird b/c this is post fire and so houses aren't shown where they are, and you can't see the trails as easily in places because the brush had been burnt at this point

I think if you click on the link then you can zoom to see it better

The yellow money sign is where the reported robbery attack occurred in December

The two pink dots are the West Bernardo street parking and lots that are most widely used by people going to the park to run and/or at lunch. Those are on and/or right off the street so very accesible and where trucks often are.

The blue car is where Chelsea's car was parked (but it dropped it on the rec center building so it'd show up easily)

The blue placemarker with the black dot is the one home that actually is accessible from West Bernardo, so that shows where the only street facing house is, otherwise it's just the walled off yards, etc.

The red circled area is where the helicopter and steady light were last night for quite awhile.

The green bike is where the bridge now crosses to the north side of the lake to the Escondido side.

They were water searching the area by the bridge through to the 'finger' of the lake that goes behind the park.

Here's another view

Click to expand...

Excellent job, TravelingBug. :bow:

Yikes, the circle area where the copters were last night looks close to where the other $ occurred.

Sometimes I find it easier to type while I'm thinking so please excuse me if I ask so many questions.

What do you think of the possibility that as Chelsea was warming up heading to a trail, she sees someone she knows and trusts who offers her a ride or comes up with a story to get her in a car?

Someone acting hurt on a trail that she assisted and they tricked her into another area? A hit and run where they put her in the car?

Another commenter under an article mentioned some abandoned houses - do you know of any around there?

I hope you're taking care of yourself too. It's got to be stressful with all that is going on right there.

Curious Me said:

Excellent job, TravelingBug. :bow:

Yikes, the circle area where the copters were last night looks close to where the other $ occurred.

Sometimes I find it easier to type while I'm thinking so please excuse me if I ask so many questions.

What do you think of the possibility that as Chelsea was warming up heading to a trail, she sees someone she knows and trusts who offers her a ride or comes up with a story to get her in a car?

Someone acting hurt on a trail that she assisted and they tricked her into another area? A hit and run where they put her in the car?

Another commenter under an article mentioned some abandoned houses - do you know of any around there?

I hope you're taking care of yourself too. It's got to be stressful with all that is going on right there.

Click to expand...

I'd say that's relatively unlikely.

It's really not an area prone to have abandoned homes. I mean, one or two for sale, but that's really it...and obviously they (homes for sale) could be (and are) any/every where. Westwood tends to be a neighborhood where people know their neighbors, especially after the devastation of the wildfires when so many homes there were destroyed.

There are, however, many homes still in various stages of being rebuilt, so they are more or less empty. Several of those on areas that back up to the canyon/hilly area where the trails run. So while they aren't abandoned, they're not inhabited either...some are more walled in at this point than others, some are really just beams, and some still even less than that.

TravelingBug said:

I...

There are, however, many homes still in various stages of being rebuilt, so they are more or less empty. Several of those on areas that back up to the canyon/hilly area where the trails run. So while they aren't abandoned, they're not inhabited either...some are more walled in at this point than others, some are really just beams, and some still even less than that.

Click to expand...

And you would have to think that any of those particular house would have been checked by now. I'd think that would have been one of the first places they'd look, hence helicopters in the area where you saw the searchlights (where there are several homes being rebuilt). Now that I can "see" where the helicopters were searching, it makes more sense.