GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #12

bessie said:

You're so right! I didn't mean that pings would lead LE directly to LG's remains. It should have narrowed it down for them, or suggested areas to search. IIRC, the only LE led searches have been in the landfills and dumps, and along the river where LG was known to go jogging. They seem to be at a loss for other areas to search, which is why I don't think they have cell records to guide them. Or, it's just not a priority.

Which leads me to another question. How important is it to LE to recover LG's remains? If they feel there's enough evidence already in hand, would they go through the time and expense of searching for the rest of her body? I know they finally searched the landfill, but that was a joint effort between private and public concerns, and was touted as a goodwill gesture on LE's part. Other than that one, LE hasn't led any searches other than the cursory ones I listed above. So, I guess what I'm wondering is if that's because they don't have any leads on where to search? Or, they have an idea or two, perhaps from cell records, but they can make a case without her remains, and budgetary constraints are a larger consideration?

Then my other question is this one. If LE has a lead on where the remains might be, through ping records or otherwise, but they don't feel it's necessary from a LE standpoint to search for them, would they share the information with the family so they could put together a private search? Have you ever encountered a situation like that, Oriah?

The answer might vary from case to case and between jurisdicitons. But is there a legal reason that would preclude sharing the information with next of kin?

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BBM:
This gave me pause for thought, bessie.
Zahra Baker.

I do think that most LEA's would share that with family (if family were not suspect, as Lauren's family is not.)
However, I also think that if LE had even an inkling of an idea as to where partial remains might be located, they may wish to remain in control of possible future search efforts until the case has been closed. Especially if a COD cannot be determined from the partial remains already located.

I also think that some jursidictions are so completely upset by these sorts of crimes (thank god for that- not all LE is hardened AT ALL) that even though budgetary restrictions may prevent them from moving forward with searches for partial remains that are not *necessary* for prosecution, they would keep that option on the back burner so to say, should an area of interest come up.

Also, it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see another 'volunteer/professional/goodwill' search in the future, with a lot of LE participation.

I think the nature of this terrible crime has a lot of LE wanting to do everything they can- either on the clock, or on their own time- to try and bring full resolution to Lauren's family. To bring her home.

IN regards to the searches. I think it was the article relating to McD's grandfather and his land.........the family wanted to search and LE told the Giddings (basically) not to , that it could affect the investigation

http://tlc.macon.com/2011/11/13/1674007_giddings-family-pressing-for-search.html

Which leads to my question:

Why is it that, according to the article, Grandpa told LE or FBI they could search and also told Giddings family they could search, now LE is leading the Giddings away from THAT site for any possible search, and LE won't search there at this time but n LE was willing to search OTHER areas and DID...............

they didnt' wait for the arraignment to do the first searches. So when do they plan to do this? MID JANUARY/February when conditions for searches are worse? If they found her, then what does that do to the case, rather to the defense?

Did McD have an attorney during the early searches? Had he been named a suspect? Arrested yet?

Which (for some reason unknown to me) might be the difference if he did NOT have an attorney or was not named a suspect early and now he IS and does have an attorney (reason for the touchy situation in the searches for Lauren)

Thanks for reminding me about that article, Tomkat. I was on vacation when it was published, and just skimmed over it. It supports what Oriah said, that LE would want to retain control of any searches, even if they're not ready to do one themselves. That's horrible for Lauren's family.

pearl said:

Would LE be able to gain any info from a disposable cell phone if SM had one? Just a thought.

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Not necessarily. Unless something has changed very recently, I believe it is still possible to buy a prepaid phone with cash and load minutes onto it without providing personal information. Now, if McD had such a phone, and LE found it or learned the number during the search of his apartment, they might have been able to trace the ping records associated with the number. But if he tossed it and left no trace of the number where LE could find it, then they'd never know he had one.

bessie said:

Not necessarily. Unless something has changed very recently, I believe it is still possible to buy a prepaid phone with cash and load minutes onto it without providing personal information. Now, if McD had such a phone, and LE found it or learned the number during the search of his apartment, they might have been able to trace the ping records associated with the number. But if he tossed it and left no trace of the number where LE could find it, then they'd never know he had one.

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You can sometimes track prepaid phones (and minutes purchased) by the distributer. Retailers keep track of their inventory, and when they scan and activate the phone at the register it's recorded in a sort of 'cache' with the service provider- mostly for market anaylsis.

It's quite a tedious process though- especially in areas where there are a lot of retailers.

I wonder if LE has investigated this, in the pursuit of locating Lauren's remains.

Right, Oriah, but the numbers are all anonymous. If he had a phone and threw it away, tracing those numbers wouldn't do a bit of good.

bessie said:

Right, Oriah, but the numbers are all anonymous. If he had a phone and threw it away, tracing those numbers wouldn't do a bit of good.

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If he threw away a prepaid phone (if one even existed to begin with) then I am not sure that tracing the numbers would be useless? Just coming from the perspective of trying to utilize any and every possibility to locate Lauren.

The cell numbers of prepaid phones are randomly generated as they are activated by the service provider. The service provider has a log of that while the minutes are still available, unless it is past the expiration date of the minutes or data has exceeded the limit. I think. :waitasec:

Maybe I'm just reaching here, because I want Lauren brought home to her family.

Gosh- idk.

bessie said:

Thanks for reminding me about that article, Tomkat. I was on vacation when it was published, and just skimmed over it. It supports what Oriah said, that LE would want to retain control of any searches, even if they're not ready to do one themselves. That's horrible for Lauren's family.

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YES! TERRIBLE for Giddings family, knowing she may be there, more torture,waiting and feeling so strongly that she may be there, how terrible.

BUT, the article stated that LE didnt feel the need to search there or some such, as if they dont' think she's there either

While we are in "waiting" mode, I am just throwing a few things out there that have nagged at me or that I have been unclear on in this case.

Here's one, going back to one of the very basic details of this crime, Lauren's remains being found in the rollaway garbage bin at the apartment.

What I'm wondering is: At a small apartment complex like Barristers Hall, does the garbage pick-up truck enter the parking lot and go around to each apartment to empty the bins?

I'm accustomed to pick-up at a single-family dwelling, where we have to roll the bin out the driveway and place it at the side of the road each week, so I don't really know how pick-up normally works at multi-residence places.

If residents don't roll their bins to the curb, is there an area or spot within the complex at which they are supposed to place them for pick-up? If so -- do residents usually keep the bins at whichever spot they need to be for emptying and just carry their bagged trash out to them as needed during the week, or would they be more likely to keep the bins close to their door during the week, then roll them to the pick-up spot for trash day?

I can't find where we ever discussed this before -- if I'm wrong, somebody please point the way for me, if you can. And, any of you who are local and "know" Barristers Hall and how garbage pick-up works there, you probably are the only hope for a definitive answer -- but, anybody who has thoughts on this, please share them.

I'm wondering, of course, if the bin where Lauren was found was in the spot it should have been to be picked up. There was so much confusion over exactly where her remains were found, at first -- remember, we did not have confirmation for a while even that it was in the bin -- that I have never been clear on where exactly the bin was and whether it was where it should have been for a normal pick-up.

tomkat said:

YES! TERRIBLE for Giddings family, knowing she may be there, more torture,waiting and feeling so strongly that she may be there, how terrible.

BUT, the article stated that LE didnt feel the need to search there or some such, as if they dont' think she's there either

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bbm: One thing that was reported is that LE told the Giddings family they don't have probable cause to search there -- which could equate to what you said, though not necessarily

Backwoods said:

I can't find where we ever discussed this before -- if I'm wrong, somebody please point the way for me, if you can. And, any of you who are local and "know" Barristers Hall and how garbage pick-up works there, you probably are the only hope for a definitive answer -- but, anybody who has thoughts on this, please share them.

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Backwoods,

I drove by Barrister's Hall apartments a few weeks after Lauren's murder, and saw a regular garbage truck pulled up in the parking lot, and the worker's were lifting the dumpsters into the back of the truck. I'm not sure how they got the dumpsters for the other units in the back. Maybe they use the same ones that Stephen and Lauren used?

McMunn said:

Backwoods,

I drove by Barrister's Hall apartments a few weeks after Lauren's murder, and saw a regular garbage truck pulled up in the parking lot, and the worker's were lifting the dumpsters into the back of the truck. I'm not sure how they got the dumpsters for the other units in the back. Maybe they use the same ones that Stephen and Lauren used?

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McMunn,
Were the garbage people physically lifting the bins to empty into the truck or were they attaching the bins to a lift on the truck. Our trucks around here have this thingie that attaches to slots on the side of the bins and then it lifts the bins to empty. Our trucks just have a driver, no helpers.

pearl said:

McMunn,
Were the garbage people physically lifting the bins to empty into the truck or were they attaching the bins to a lift on the truck. Our trucks around here have this thingie that attaches to slots on the side of the bins and then it lifts the bins to empty. Our trucks just have a driver, no helpers.

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Pearl,

It was a regular garbage truck (no lift thingies), and they were physically lifting the bins and dumping them into the back of the truck.

McMunn said:

Backwoods,

I drove by Barrister's Hall apartments a few weeks after Lauren's murder, and saw a regular garbage truck pulled up in the parking lot, and the worker's were lifting the dumpsters into the back of the truck. I'm not sure how they got the dumpsters for the other units in the back. Maybe they use the same ones that Stephen and Lauren used?

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Thanks. Could you tell if the bins were grouped together and, if so, kind of where? Or were the workers walking up to each bin where it sat alone and moving it to the truck?

You know, McMunn, your post makes me think: How could anybody ever witness that sight at that location (or the garbage truck workers do their task) without thinking of this crime?

ETA: I think I remember someone reporting earlier that the back building has its own bins.

Backwoods said:

Thanks. Could you tell if the bins were grouped together and, if so, kind of where? Or were the workers walking up to each bin where it sat alone and moving it to the truck?

You know, McMunn, your post makes me think: How could anybody ever witness that sight at that location (or the garbage truck workers do their task) without thinking of this crime?

ETA: I think I remember someone reporting earlier that the back building has its own bins.

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I remember seeing one of the workers with a bin up to the back of the truck and dumping it in. The garbage truck was pulled in sideways in the parking lot. I didn't see much, because I was driving by, and had to keep moving with the traffic.

We did discuss this way back in Thread 1 or 2 and figured out that the residents use regular trash cans, big ones. There is a photo somewhere that shows one of them toward the left side of the building. Also, when Angelanalyzes visited Macon to have a look around, she said that she rummaged through one of the trash cans.

I'm pretty sure the cans belong to the complex, and residents walk over and drop their trash inside.

I'll see if I can find the photo.

ETA: Haven't found the picture yet, but this is Angel's reply to someone who asked a similar question.

angelanalyzes said:

The bins are located right next to the apartment directly beneath her, she most likely parked right next to them by the left side of the fork in the staircase leading only to her and McD's apts up the stairs. This would place her car within 30 feet of the bins.

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Note the chair on the right. That's the porch beneath Lauren's apartment. The can's on the left and looks like it's almost on the porch in this picture. Normally, it would probably be closer to the fence where the detectives are sifting through the rubbage

bessie said:

We did discuss this way back in Thread 1 or 2 and figured out that the residents use regular trash cans, big ones. There is a photo somewhere that shows one of them toward the left side of the building. Also, when Angelanalyzes visited Macon to have a look around, she said that she rummaged through one of the trash cans.

I'm pretty sure the cans belong to the complex, and residents walk over and drop their trash inside.

I'll see if I can find the photo.

ETA: Haven't found the picture yet, but this is Angel's reply to someone who asked a similar question.

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Thanks, bessie. Yes, I do remember lots of discussion about the bins (and us determining they are the single-but-large flip-top rollaway type) and certainly remember angelanalyzes great photo documentation -- but I couldn't remember any in-depth talk about normal placement for during-the-week use versus for pick-up day.

If I'm understanding you right, you are saying you think the bins pretty much stay put (and are emptied by the workers) basically in one area (likely the area by the fence where the garbage is being examined in aa's pic you just posted), and the residents walk their trash out to deposit in them in that spot -- rather than, say, the residents keeping them closer to their door during the week and then rolling them to the pick-up spot before pick-up... Correct?

I'm just looking for the normal procedure -- I realize, of course, that SM could have rolled a bin up close to a door, a window, etc., to dispose of the remains --because we talked about all that a lot, too -- then returned it to its normal spot (if the procedure is that the bins normally stay in one spot all the time).

What I'm trying to figure out is, basically, if the trash collectors had come earlier that day , was the bin -- where it was located when Lauren's remains were discovered -- in the normal/correct spot to be collected/emptied by the workers.

It's a different situation, of course, but to kind of illustrate what I mean: At our house, we keep the bin (which belongs to the garbage company, technically) in our carport during the week, but it has to go down the driveway and to the right-of-way area on the opposite side of the road -- not the edge of our yard, not the close side of the road -- to get picked up by the workers on trash day. If we don't get it out there, it doesn't get emptied. (I know it's different in a more compact space, where the truck pulls into the parking lot, and the "rules" about placement might not be as rigid -- just using the comparison about our pick-up to explain what I'm wondering.)

I getcha, Backwoods. From everything I've heard and read, I feel very certain the trash can was in its usual spot on the left side of the building I tried to find the statement from Burns when he described how a detective noticed the odor and it was just XX feet away. It was in a video, so maybe never in print. Anyway, I seem to remember he said by the fence or on the side of the building. The ME's van was parked over that way, too, and you could see people were clustered in that direction

bessie said:

I getcha, Backwoods. From everything I've heard and read, I feel very certain the trash can was in its usual spot on the left side of the building I tried to find the statement from Burns when he described how a detective noticed the odor and it was just XX feet away. It was in a video, so maybe never in print. Anyway, I seem to remember he said by the fence or on the side of the building. The ME's van was parked over that way, too, and you could see people were clustered in that direction

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bbm: Don't think it's the source you're remembering, but, in addition, Patterson testifies about the odor, noticing the flies, etc., at the commitment hearing.