TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #3

http://www.thewetumpkaherald.com/news/article_be9da4a6-832f-11e0-990c-001cc4c03286.html

Before, didn't we think Diane last spoke to Gail "moments before she was last seen"? this article says that phone call happened at 6:30AM.

hollyblue said:

Not to text?

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Well...It's not safe to text and drive..

believe09 said:

I would like to know if a current in one of the waterways could move the Jeep from it's access point. If we take into consideration both AL and TN near where she was.

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Believe09,

IMHO...just a local perspective

Regarding the current in the local waterways. The river (at the base and running through Chattanooga) definitely has the strength, speed and depth to conceal and/or carry a vehicle. Large vessels and barges use this area on a regular basis.

The river here is not "flooded" and nothing is impeding local recreation or commerce in the vacinity.

The smaller creeks on the mountain and around the base have been higher than normal after the rains, but water levels seem to be going down quite a bit. A couple of spots I have been watching have gone down too low to conceal a Jeep. Also, most of the creeks around are very curvy and rocky with boulders jutting out...most likely a vehicle would just get jammed-in stuck if it were to enter.

Also, here on the mountain most of these could be easily walked/searched. If the locals here could take a little time and visually check their property these areas could be expediantly cleared. Please keep in mind that although a lot of creeks show up on the map it is not as ominous as it looks. For example, one of those adjoins my property and is at an 3 year record high of about 9" (inches) deep and 2 1/2' (feet) at it's widest. During heavy rains it does swell to about 4' (feet) deep and get up to 80' (feet) wide. Subsides back to normal about an hour after the rain stops.

I guess that what I am trying to share with those who can't actually experience it here locally, is that although there may be a few spots in the immediate vacinity which could be concealing a Jeep, unless it is in the river itself, I am more inclined to think it would be in the woods, down a gully. Is common knowledge here that there a several out of the way ledges and caves for an individual to camp if they were inclined to do so or if they were injured (God forbid), and could not walk to safety.

Forgive me please as I add one more thing regarding cell phones and then I promise to give all of you a reprieve. The locals here will understand and may not give it much thought...one of the things that you just learn to live with on the mountain is very sporadic and sometimes sporadic cell and car satellite signals. Coming up and down the mountain it is not uncommon to disconnect and reconnect two or three times with either.

Again, thank you for letting me try to help by shedding some local light on the geography. Just trying to help bring Gail home!

Emeralgem said:

I thought it was stated the ping on the 30th came from the North base of the mountain.I don't recall reading it was the North foot base of the mountain, however I would think where the W comes down to Mountain Creek Road would be located north of where 127 turns into Signal Mtn Blvd at the foot of the mtn..JMHO

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foot/base is just a descriptor option..but yes...Mt creek and W. I just wanted to say not Dunlap because some folks here seemed confused, and thought that North base ( or North foot ) might mean Dunlap.

TheDoormouse said:

http://www.thewetumpkaherald.com/news/article_be9da4a6-832f-11e0-990c-001cc4c03286.html

Before, didn't we think Diane last spoke to Gail "moments before she was last seen"? this article says that phone call happened at 6:30AM.

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Yes, before this article, all indications were that Gail was talking to her sister on the phone April 30 around noon, I assumed as she was driving away from her home in Signal Mtn.. But that is my assumption, that she was in the car.

It just struck me, maybe she was preoccupied with the phone call to her sister, as well as her emotions, and that's why she didn't acknowledge SB waving at her.

"A friend of Gail Palmgren’s, Arlene Durham of Titus, said she received a text from her at 1:49 p.m. on April 29 saying, “Headed down...call say little.” "

I thought Gail started to head down on the evening of the 29th after visit with the police...apparently not?? was that argument in the morning?

TheDoormouse said:

Snipped by me

What are these roads like? Is it heavily wooded, or more sparsely? Is it a high drop off the side, or barely? Whats at the bottom? Do people hike/fish/adventure in the area that a jeep would land in off the road?

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Doormouse, in response:
What are these roads like? Both are steady downgrade, Roberts Mill much more than the W. Roberts Mill...braking to avoid picking up speed is a must. W road has curves and a few straighter stretches but is a "pleasant" drive up and down. Roberts Mill is another story, pay attention the entire drive and frequent short corners.

Is it heavily wooded, or more sparsely?
W road is wooded with a few sparse areas, but the "outside" edge does have some very steep vertical areas. A couple of "driveway" wide areas which are not guardrailed but not for the faint of heart to drive down. More people living closer together or closer to the road.

Roberts Mill - the woods along it are not populated in several areas at all. Definitely could get back into a couple of areas with a 4WD. Has many steep verticles and rolling rocky areas with jutting rock formations back off of the road. Not dense enough to stop walking as long as you were paying attention but, almost all of it sloping and quite a bit of rock face.

Density? As far as a visual inspection, two or three weeks ago you could see about 20-30 feet in. Now, with the leaves and other cover growing it cuts the range to at least 1/2 in most places or less. I just keep hoping to catch a glint of windshield or glass reflecting...



Is it a high drop off the side, or barely? In some areas YES. Some sections (mostly guardrailed) ar high enough and steep enough to give you a moment of vertigo. Very few "flat" spots.

Whats at the bottom? Do people hike/fish/adventure in the area that a jeep would land in off the road?

Remember that these roads both are cut across the face of the mountain, and across and along the edge of the mountain where it is physically possible. On the W there are more houses built around it. But yes, there are areas where it would be possible. Not all of the areas of the base immediately below the roads would be highly traveled by hikers or hunters without purpose. And yes some do, but it is not a terrain to just go out and walk without preparation. Have been some tricky rescues in the area requiring repellers assitance. Hope this helps.

hollyblue said:

I think that GP's family may be talking about NG, etc and not MSM. Since Diane and family was/are not allowed to talk to the children, maybe they don't want to put pressure on MP. Feeling a little intimidation from MP and his attorney??? not to bring any undo attention to MP. Let's face it, he doesn't have a job to go to at this point, and we don't know his mental state either....before or now. Maybe GP's family is walking on egg shells right now because of the children and having to make careful decisions in that regard. I truly believe they want the media's help in getting the word out, but are soft stepping in the coverage of MP, knowing if he is involved, it will be gleaned out. JMO

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Several people have contacted NG and others....On Monday this was not a problem with the family..thank you, and whatever it takes to find her, was the generalized reply. But, Maybe something has changed since then.

The family is not pointing fingers at MP....it's absolutely not in the best interest of the kids they love and care about...they just want to find Gail.

hollyblue said:

We need the locals to let us know if there has been any flooding in the area, I know the Nashville area was hit hard in the recent past, and Memphis and towns along the Mississippi are holding their own....or trying to at this time. Poor Mud Island.

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The area is NOT experiencing any flooding at present. Although we did have some heavy rains a couple of weeks ago, there was only sporadic street flooding in just a few of the downtown areas which resolved itself quickly.

Columbo said:

It doesn't seem as if this case has been mentioned at all on any national television shows, or has it? Such as Today, NG, etc. I wonder if it's because the family requested it to not go nationwide?

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No, I told Diane earlier today that we are trying to email/contact all the major media outlets and she said, "Great!!! The more people we have looking for her and the jeep, the faster we will find her!!! Thanks!"

Great posts Fireflylink! Welcome! :welcome2:

Your descriptions are really good, but I encourage people to view the area on Google Earth to get an idea of what it's like.

The main mountain highway comes down "near" the TN River, but not right on the river. It's not a resort area or wilderness that some might be picturing, because the highway comes down into the town of Redbank, and just across the River is Chattanooga's downtown area. So it's a real contrast, which is common in the Chattanooga area, of a wildish sort of place along the Mountain, with the city below.

Some people have suggested searching near Suck Creek Road, which does run along between the River and the Mountain. Again, anything is possible, and as Fireflylink says, the woods are greening up with foliage now. Whether a bright red jeep could hide is anyone's guess.

I found videos of the roads, and I'll post them here again.

ThoughtFox said:

Great posts Fireflylink! Welcome! :welcome2:

Your descriptions are really good, but I encourage people to view the area on Google Earth to get an idea of what it's like.

The main mountain highway comes down "near" the TN River, but not right on the river. It's not a resort area or wilderness that some might be picturing, because the highway comes down into the town of Redbank, and just across the River is Chattanooga's downtown area. So it's a real contrast, which is common in the Chattanooga area, of a wildish sort of place along the Mountain, with the city below.

Some people have suggested searching near Suck Creek Road, which does run along between the River and the Mountain. Again, anything is possible, and as Fireflylink says, the woods are greening up with foliage now. Whether a bright red jeep could hide is anyone's guess.

I found videos of the roads, and I'll post them here again.

Signal Mt. Road 127 Down to Red Bank
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSj4RqQY_3o&feature=related

Roberts Mill Road
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUA0WiE-eMA​

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ThoughtFox,
I would have to agree about Google Earth, just providing a little real world perspective

May I add info on the great videos you found?

The first one is Signal Mountain Blvd/Taft Hwy/127 (the "main" road up/down the mountain).

The second is the W-Road.

If no video is available of Roberts Mill I would be happy to shoot a drive for you tomorrow. Let me know if I can help. Feel free to email me.

Emeralgem said:

Suck Creek Road.. Dayton Blvd.. Taft Hwy also known as Hwy 127 that goes over the mountain.. Numerous roads...Too Too many..Anyone know anything about the area leading to Fall Creek Falls. I can't recall.. Haven't been up that way in decades...IMO

Heres a map.
http://www.trimbleoutdoors.com/ViewTrip/79516

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There are 3 roads up and down the mountain.

1. Hwy 127 from Chattanooga, turns into Ridgeway Ave/Taft Hwy (at the top) continues down the other side of the mountain towards Dunlap, TN 28 & 111.

2. Roberts Mill Road (near Sequatchie/Hamilton County Line) toward Fall Creek Falls (Dayton Pike) near interchanges 153 & 27N.

3. W (West) Road at the Signal Mountain city limits/Walden's Ridge from the top of the mountain to Mountain Creek Road at the bottom (27N or S interchanges available in either direction).

http://www.thewetumpkaherald.com/news/article_be9da4a6-832f-11e0-990c-001cc4c03286.html

This article does have some very different time information, doesn't it?

I don't know what to think about the phone call to Diane. This reporter obviously talked to Diane directly, but the time of the phone call is a good 6 hours earlier than what we thought. And I'm pretty sure it was JBean who confirmed the call was roughly noon to 12:15 PM that day. Maybe the article got it wrong?

The timing for Gail leaving for the lake house is a little off, too. This article and another from chattanoogan.com said she was leaving to stay at the lake house for the night, but I don't know that we know the exact time of the DV call on the 29th.

fireflylink said:

ThoughtFox,
I would have to agree about Google Earth, just providing a little real world perspective

May I add info on the great videos you found?

The first one is Signal Mountain Blvd/Taft Hwy/127 (the "main" road up/down the mountain).

The second is the W-Road.

If no video is available of Roberts Mill I would be happy to shoot a drive for you tomorrow. Let me know if I can help. Feel free to email me.

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The only one I have seen is someone driving around 70mph at night.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOORV0rfZjI[/ame]

RWB said:

I don't know that is what I am wondering. There has been a FB account created, and yesterday it was on a syndicated radio talk program. I hear her family is asking for everyone to be on the lookout. But just wanted some clarification on exposure. Wanted to offer some possible resources I my have but don't want to over step boundaries of family or police.

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I posted this a bit ago, but I'll respond here as well . . . Diane wants as much exposure and people looking for Gail and her Jeep. Local, regional, national . . . whatever anyone can get is great!!! We just want Gail found and home safe with her children.

Wrinkles said:

To those local to Gail's situation...

Can those of you who know the road ways leading out and away from Gail's home in Signal Mountain let me know which roads might run out from there about 15 miles, i.e. which roadways might she drive in any direction for 15 miles. I am particularly interested in knowing which ones run alongside and/or near a body of water (lake, pond, river, creek, manmade water basin, etc.) When I say "alongside" this could include a river down at the bottom of a mountainous roadside with a sheer drop off alongside it.

Thanks in advance.

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The TN River runs along the front of the mountain coming in from Chattanooga (Downtown) then to Suck Creek Road and towards Marion County. Signal Mountain has several falls, and deep water on the mountain in certain areas, although most accessible by trail/ATV routes.

Hiking Trails on the mountain
http://atlas.utc.edu/signalmtn/

glorias said:

http://www.thewetumpkaherald.com/news/article_be9da4a6-832f-11e0-990c-001cc4c03286.html

This article does have some very different time information, doesn't it?

I don't know what to think about the phone call to Diane. This reporter obviously talked to Diane directly, but the time of the phone call is a good 6 hours earlier than what we thought. And I'm pretty sure it was JBean who confirmed the call was roughly noon to 12:15 PM that day. Maybe the article got it wrong?

The timing for Gail leaving for the lake house is a little off, too. This article and another from chattanoogan.com said she was leaving to stay at the lake house for the night, but I don't know that we know the exact time of the DV call on the 29th.

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I don't recall JBean confirming that, the one thing I recall her confirming is that is was Gail leaving in the Jeep.

hollyblue said:

Not to text?

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not whilst driving (Gail would need to read the response) and especially not with the kids.....sounds like a clear thinking, responsible mother response.