trial thread: 3/27/2012

antiquegirl said:

Now, this is something I've had a problem with ever since the trial began. By all accounts from her own family, Tori was feisty, energetic, restless, and somewhat rebellious. No matter how scared she was, I just can't imagine her meekly lying there under a coat during all those stops they made. Her personality suggests that she should have been squirming, crying, protesting, etc. Yet, no one noticed anything - not BA, not anyone near the car at Home Depot, nor any other drivers passing them on the road during the 2 1/2 hours she was supposed to be in that car. I still can't believe that she wasn't drugged at some point before they reached their destination in Mt. Forest.

JMO

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tygomuk said:

Ya'll think MTR will put on a defense or just rest when prosecution is done? MOO I think they'll rest.

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Sailor Bug said:

Armstrong says #Rafferty visited her home in Guelph about a dozen times between Apr. 8th and his arrest on May 19th. Also texted.

RaffertyLFP: Armstrong said Rafferty told her that "a friend of a friends daughter was missing" and that he going to help look for her

Armstrong saw Rafferty after April 8th. He was "stressed out". Looked worn down. He said a friend of a friend's daughter had gone missing

Armstrongs says #Rafferty told her on one visit that a friend of a friends daughter went missing and he was going to help look for her

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antiquegirl said:

Now, this is something I've had a problem with ever since the trial began. By all accounts from her own family, Tori was feisty, energetic, restless, and somewhat rebellious. No matter how scared she was, I just can't imagine her meekly lying there under a coat during all those stops they made. Her personality suggests that she should have been squirming, crying, protesting, etc. Yet, no one noticed anything - not BA, not anyone near the car at Home Depot, nor any other drivers passing them on the road during the 2 1/2 hours she was supposed to be in that car. I still can't believe that she wasn't drugged at some point before they reached their destination in Mt. Forest.

JMO

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Oldsoul2 said:

My guess is they gave her a percocet, I had an impacted wisdom tooth and this is what the dentist gave me, knocked me out. BTW, if the mother had back problems that required pain killers her doctor could have prescribed those, in Canada, we have medicare, you don't need to buy them off the street at 5 times the price unless there for recreational use. Also, really don't think a petrified child is going to start screaming, we don't know what he/she said to her in that car.

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Oldsoul2 said:

He needed alot of drugs to push that conscience back in. Still don't get where the defense is going with this. The jury sees a girl who microwaved her dog, beat her mother, listened to thoughts of violent killing etc...per say WHY WOULD SHE BE NERVOUS exactly??

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~n/t~ said:

Why would she be upset? :waitasec:

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Kamille said:

I think they could at least have gotten some toxicology reports from the remains so I guess we'll find out if there were any drugs in Victoria's system?

MOO

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kmclaren said:

That 1st tweet bbm, is worrisome. So he went out to that area every 3 or days? How far is her house from the crime scene? Plenty of time to retrieve his shoes or other incriminating evidence, jmo...

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Juris_Prudence said:

Well I would think that given TLM's testimony last week that it was MR's idea to kidnap a child, and given she testified that he told her in the car that they couldn't send her home and could not keep her that she might be hesitant or upset or otherwise emotional because she would be walking through the store, making these purchases, knowing she had been directed to buy the murder weapon and concealment items, and knowing she was following through in doing so.

At the same time though, she might not have been at all upset or emotional because as we heard last week, she had written the graphic letters well before this day, which outlined her apparent desire to take, torture and murder someone.

If it had been truly all his idea, if she truly was thinking she was going to protect that child, then I imagine she'd have been somewhat distressed. I think that might be what Mr. Derstine was alluding to.

:moo:

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Oldsoul2 said:

The alibi he's trying to established includes a drug run? I would have liked to hear him say to LE, I have no idea, I wasn't around, shooting around town with my girlfriend, getting tea, and buying drugs.

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Kamille said:

Since this was a random abduction IMO, while they may have had a plan to try this, they could not have known for sure that they would be successful in abducting a child on that day. This may not have been the first time that they tried. If it was, they were both probably surprised how easy it was on the first try. And I doubt the plan was ever thought through as to what to do with the victim once she was sexually assaulted. That part of the plan was developed on the way out of town to the secluded area not far from where MR had lived at one point in his teen years IMO.

If it was a planned abduction to take Victoria for a drug debt that day then TLM would likely have had a weapon with her because she would have known that her plan was to abduct her and kill her....for revenge.

On a drug debt that didn't exist IMO.

MOO

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Kamille said:

Since this was a random abduction IMO, while they may have had a plan to try this, they could not have known for sure that they would be successful in abducting a child on that day. This may not have been the first time that they tried. If it was, they were both probably surprised how easy it was on the first try. And I doubt the plan was ever thought through as to what to do with the victim once she was sexually assaulted. That part of the plan was developed on the way out of town to the secluded area not far from where MR had lived at one point in his teen years IMO.

If it was a planned abduction to take Victoria for a drug debt that day then TLM would likely have had a weapon with her because she would have known that her plan was to abduct her and kill her....for revenge.

On a drug debt that didn't exist IMO.

MOO

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kmclaren said:

That 1st tweet bbm, is worrisome. So he went out to that area every 3 or 4 days? How far is her house from the crime scene? Plenty of time to retrieve his shoes or other incriminating evidence, jmo...

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Kamille said:

No BA was an old friend from work remember? He just dropped in to say hello would have been his story if anyone had asked him where he was that day. It's not like she was going to mention the drugs either if this wasn't as serious as it became. Where he ran into the problem was that he established this alibi for the two of them. And then TLM had to go mess it up by being caught on that video from CASS and getting picked up on a probation violation.

So when LE did come around to ask what he was doing that day, he was just zipping around in his car according to him. He knew he couldn't tell them at that point he was in Guelph with the person on the video seen leading Victoria away.

MOO

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London Free Press‏@RaffertyLFP
Another reporter sez Barbara Armstrong changed clothes to evade photogs waiting for her to exit courthouse

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Kamille said:

No BA was an old friend from work remember? He just dropped in to say hello would have been his story if anyone had asked him where he was that day. It's not like she was going to mention the drugs either if this wasn't as serious as it became. Where he ran into the problem was that he established this alibi for the two of them. And then TLM had to go mess it up by being caught on that video from CASS and getting picked up on a probation violation.

So when LE did come around to ask what he was doing that day, he was just zipping around in his car according to him. He knew he couldn't tell them at that point he was in Guelph with the person on the video seen leading Victoria away.

MOO

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antiquegirl said:

(BBM)

I'm not saying I believe that the motive was a drug debt, but if it was, it didn't necessarily have to be for revenge. It could equally have been for ransom - a ransom that could not be collected for one reason or another. Say, Tori's mother couldn't be reached via phone or text. The murder could have become necessary because Tori was making a fuss, TLM got impatient, lost her temper, and was no longer willing to wait to get hold of TM. She would have two choices - (1) drive around aimlessly for several more hours with a restless, crying child in the car, or (2) just put an end to the whole thing. TLM does not strike me as the patient type and her anger issues (to put it mildly) are well-established.

JMO

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Kamille said:

The Crown's position is that Victoria was being hidden in the car, on the floor under a coat. Now why the defence wouldn't have tried to establish that she was just sitting in there, right up on the backseat as happy as a lark I have no idea. :waitasec:

MOO

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