Trial Thread 4/12/2012

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Rafferty trial Day 21 (04/12/2012)

11:33 Mike Knoll: Hank Daniszewski is tweeting from the overflow courtroom. Here is his morning update:
Dirk Derstine, the defense attorney for Michael Rafferty, attempted Thursday to discount the DNA evidence linking Tori Stafford to Rafferty's car.

Derstine's cross examination of forensic expert Jennifer McLean began Thursday morning in Rafferty's murder trial.

McLean agreed with Derstine that there are a number of ways that DNA can be transferred to an object.

McLean also agreed that "sperm cell" DNA traces found in multiple sites in Rafferty's car did not necessarily come from semen. McLean said there was only one sample from the car that was definitely linked to semen.

Derstine then focused on the tiny spot of blood on a gym bag in the back seat that appeared to have mixed DNA from Stafford Rafferty and other sources.

Derstine presented McLean with a number of scenarios on how mixed DNA could have appeared on the bag.
 
RaffertyLFP: Derstine suggests different scenario for DNA deposits on gym bag - all three at once, one at a time two plus one etc

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Hard to count the possible ways. More than a dozen.

RaffertyLFP: McLean agrees there are more than a dozen ways that DNA from three people could have ended up in one deposit
 
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody is there to hear it, does it still make a sound? Just because evidence is not there does not mean it was never there ie it was washed, or cutaway. It doesn't mean that Tori was not raped by MTR. IMO
 
Sailor Bug said:
RaffertyLFP: Derstine said there was sperm fraction in the blood spot but it does not mean it came from semen, McLean agrees

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Derstine asks about cut out back seat. There's a sperm fraction on the material, but not certainly from semen.

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
There was no semen detected in the back seat. No way to determine where sperm fraction cella came from.
Click to expand...

RBBM: What the heck doess it mean then? If it doesn't come from sperm, why do they call it "sperm fraction" and where else could it come from? That makes no sense????

Salem
 
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Options include person A, B, C. Example "A is deposited, is later exposed/mixed to B, is later exposed/mixed to C."

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Various other scenarios like this in the sheet. All are possible, McLean says.

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Stains don't have to be the same size to be a match, Derstine says. McLean agrees.
 
..Hey salam can you please explain websleuth's time clock as it seems to be behind 2 hours from us here in s. Ontario & london court ...another confusion as when they say 20 min recess...it is now 11;39 in Toronto/London court and time clock on websleuth site says approx 9;30 ....tweets and post get us all confused too ...sorry I am going back on tweeter to find out if they are back in court ?????....very frustrated with all of this today ...robynhood..
 
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Derstine asking about McClintic's shoes. He asks about DNA retention on soft surfaces.

RaffertyLFP: Derstine asks McLean about washing the "Shaq" shoes - how much washing would eliminate DNA?

RaffertyLFP: Derstine asks if soap and water washing would eliminate DNA from shoes? McLean agrees it could

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
"Hard to quantify" how much washing would take away DNA, Derstine says. McLean agrees "from a common sense perspective".
 
Could Defense be implying it came from McClintic? After they had done the nasty? Transferred from her hand/s?
 
robynhood said:
..Hey salam can you please explain websleuth's time clock as it seems to be behind 2 hours from us here in s. Ontario & london court ...another confusion as when they say 20 min recess...it is now 11;39 in Toronto/London court and time clock on websleuth site says approx 9;30 ....tweets and post get us all confused too ...sorry I am going back on tweeter to find out if they are back in court ?????....very frustrated with all of this today ...robynhood..
Click to expand...

I think you can change your time zone somewhere in your settings. I'm in N. Ontario and my time is ok on here.

ETA: I sent you instructions on how to change it
 
Sailor Bug said:
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Showing the passenger front seat, where semen was found.

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
There was also McClintic's DNA on the seat.

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
This was the only place in the vehicle that McLean has determined semen was certainly present.

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Derstine reminds the court McClintic's DNA (likely) was found nearby

Avery Moore ‏ @AveryFreeFMNews
McLean says the stains on the front passenger seat are the only stains she can conclusively say are from semen.
Click to expand...

I wonder if they had sex again, after the washing of the car and the events of Apr. 8th. Do we know if they were in contact before TLM got arrested? We know that MR visited TLM at the jail..... hmmmm....

Salem
 
nettie_82 said:
They did shampoo the car.

AM980.ca ‏
They shampooed the inside to the car. McClintic cleaned the floor mats at a separate bay.
Click to expand...

He had months to get rid of evidence and yet still there's forensics. I just don't see how the jury will fall for this defense. IMO
 
nettie_82 said:
They did shampoo the car.

AM980.ca ‏
They shampooed the inside to the car. McClintic cleaned the floor mats at a separate bay.
Click to expand...

BBM

Interesting...I don't remember seeing any floor mats in the back of that car in any of the evidence photos. You'd think they'd have been tested if they were there. I guess they went the way of the seat? Maybe he didn't think they'd gotten them clean enough either? Or was she referring to front mats only? :waitasec:

MOO
 
AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Now looking at the puma shoes. Derstine says no way to know when the shoes got blood on them.

AM980.ca ‏ @AM980_Court
Derstine reminded by McLean about blonde hairs on the coat. She said one of the hairs excluded Tori's DNA. The other undetermined.
 
I see the defense is trying to confuse the jury. Nice try but the facts are the DNA found were 1 in billions or trillions that it belonged to foreign source. Furthermore, we know the car was washed and items thrown out and possible washing of shoes and coat.

But who knows. It might work for this jury. Baez did the same thing and it worked for 12 jurors in Florida. He had a flip charts and markers and all that new tech stuff <sarcasm>

Nah...doubt it would happen here. lol
 
Sailor Bug said:
Avery Moore &#8207; @AveryFreeFMNews
McLean stresses that of the 3 sources of DNA on the gym bag 1 is from blood. Doesn't mean all 3 came from blood

AM980.ca &#8207; @AM980_Court
Derstine has a sheet showing ways three different DNA profiles could be in one spot (like on the gym bag). McLean given time to look at it.

Avery Moore &#8207; @AveryFreeFMNews
Derstine presents McLean w a doc that lists the different ways 3 types of DNA could end up on the gym bag. Morning recess called


RaffertyLFP: Derstine presents McLean with different scenarios for mixed DNA sample - Court takes 20 minute recess
Click to expand...

They pick the best times ever to go on break :banghead::banghead:
 
Macright said:
but wasn't the blood found inside the shoe?:maddening:
Click to expand...

Anyone else wondering if the shoes he gave TLM to wear that night after she threw hers out the window were the same ones he himself was wearing prior to the alleged assault and murder? Did she say whether or not he had his shoes off for the assault? Sure looks like Puma shoes in the gas station ATM video. :waitasec:

But finding DNA traces of blood in anyone's shoes would be pretty normal I would think. People get blisters and foot injuries often IMO.

MOO
 
RaffertyLFP: Derstine asked about blond hairs on pea coat. McLean repeats that Stafford was excluded from one of the hairs from coat that was tested

AM980.ca &#8207; @AM980_Court
Showing a leather coat found in Rafferty's car. First time jury has seen it. It was also tested.

AM980.ca &#8207; @AM980_Court
There was three sets of DNA on the coat. One was likely Rafferty, the other two unnamed.
 
daisy.faithfull said:
Yes, but there are many possible stories/reasons for what we aren't seeing. First, how do we know that something that isn't there ever was there. And even if it never was there that doesn't mean that something happened that could have put it there. YKWIM? :)
Click to expand...

My thought is that there are traces of the something that isn't there showing that it was there.....

Salem
 
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