Hard Evidence

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gord

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I want to try an drill down on this thread what we have as Hard Evidence - what we know is as close to fact as we can get .

Lets put ourself in the minds of the prosecution judge who is deciding if the case is strong enough to prosecute .

I am looking as much as we can on evidence that could stand up in court - That is a pretty tall order as we do not have all the information the police have .

Maybe we then can look at that evidence and see how strong or not . I know that a lot has been talked about if various threads - but maybe this can bring some of it all together .

I am particularly keen to collect all the evidence that would be used by a prosecution team -

If possible lets see if we can do it without the passion that one might feel about the Mccaans and look at facts as much as we can
 
Gord, great thread! :) I would like to know though who will decide what is hard evidence and what is not since some posters do not believe almost anything that the media reports.

Some of it:

* Cadaver scent on car's trunk, Kate's clothes, Kate's Bible, Maddie's stuffed toy and car keys.

* Some type of "body fluid" and hair from their rented car.
 
Another thread?? Isn't there a thread called separating fact from fiction?
 
I'm going blind with all the new threads. :cool: Could we not merge the threads into the original threads that were started that they fit in? :twocents:
 
maybe this is one thread too far - I will leave that up to you all . I know there is a lot of threads at the moment - but a lot have dropped of page one and others have taken all sort of tangents

There has been a lot of words in the passsed few days and a lot said - I was just trying to maybe go back to basics
 
I'd be very interested to read this thread with just the hard facts only. It's not easy to get all the information from other such long threads with all sorts of things being said about the case. The cadaver dogs who are so well known finding those scents seem to be the most important facts to me, but I'm sure there are some more.
 
Hard facts:

1. In late April, Kate and Gerry McCann took their three children, Madeleine, Amelie and Sean, to Portugal on vacation. They went to Praia da Luz on the southern Algarve coast and stayed just outside the Ocean Club resort, owned by Mark Warner. They had some resort privileges, including the babysitting creche.

2. Several of the McCanns' friends also vacationed with them. These people are:
David and Fiona Payne
Matthew and Rachael Oldfield
Russell O'Brien and gf Jane Tanner
Dianne Webster (Fiona Payne's mother)

Each of the couples also had children with them.

3. The McCann children went to the creche "most days". I won't say every day because that isn't a known fact.

4. On May 3, the McCann adults went out to eat and drink at the Tapas bar around 8:30-8:45. They left at least two children alone in their apartment.

5. At 10:00 Kate McCann went to check on the children and returned to the Tapas bar claiming that Madeleine was gone. Various resort employees helped search for her. The police were summoned, and Madeleine was not found.

6. In the past 153 days there has not been any conclusive evidence of Madeleine's fate nor any proven sightings of her.
 
some more facts .

No witness or cctv or any sightings whatsoever of Maddeline ( dead / alive ) being moved from the apartment either by abductors or the family - nothing - that we know of at the moment . I will accept that the police could be sitting on something

except Tanner has made a statement ( we are not sure of the exact statement ) but she has said she saw something a man /person carrying something that looked like a child
 
I think there is agreement that the window & shutters in the bedroom were open. May 3 was still under the full moon and the shutters may have been pulled open to admit enough light to see Madeleine. Otherwise, whoever was entering the room would have been bumbling in the dark. O'Brien said the room looked lighter than he had expected to see. This does not answer why the window was open, of course.
 
The arrangement of the shutter and the window with the shutter on the exterior make it likely that whoever opened it might have left the window open because it was NOT important to that person. What was important was just admitting light into the room and to pull open the shutter, the window had been opened. That full moon would definitely illuminate the room--very bright!
 
Resort manager John Hill said: "As well as staff, we had guests helping, also the majority of the Praia da Luz village. "Police were informed at the same time as the alarm was raised. They arrived about 10.45pm and after statements were taken from the family police decided to escalate the situation."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

This came from an article that I found in another thread therefore it does jibe with what Kate said to Mrs Fenn about the police already being called.

JMO
 
Tuba said:
The arrangement of the shutter and the window with the shutter on the exterior make it likely that whoever opened it might have left the window open because it was NOT important to that person. What was important was just admitting light into the room and to pull open the shutter, the window had been opened. That full moon would definitely illuminate the room--very bright!
Click to expand...


Moonrise for that night was at about 10PM.
 
There have been omissions, confusion & some contradiction about the state of the doors to the flat. We are certain that the sliding door was unlocked but was the door pulled to? Gerry McCann said he was quite sure an inner door (to children's bedroom, it turned out) was closed but when he returned, it was open. What about the front door? Early on, I read reports that all doors were open.
 
Tuba said:
There have been omissions, confusion & some contradiction about the state of the doors to the flat. We are certain that the sliding door was unlocked but was the door pulled to? Gerry McCann said he was quite sure an inner door (to children's bedroom, it turned out) was closed but when he returned, it was open. What about the front door? Early on, I read reports that all doors were open.
Click to expand...

The stories about the door being locked or unlocked are conflicting. Gerry feels he can talk about how often the children were checked, how close they were to the Tapas restaurant (in his opinion) and not violate the Portuguese legal requirements regarding an ongoing investigation, but he can't tell you definitely whether the front door was locked or unlocked.
 
I thought that it had been established that the doors were unlocked. You know everytime I think of them doing this I feel absolutely ill!
On holidays recently my son left his hotel room door unlocked with his laptop, video camera in there I couldn't believe him being so careless. However, at the end of the day they could have been replaced not a child!!!!
And the huge fact that really makes me ill is that Kate McCann was so bloody sure that Madeleine had been taken & she left the twins alone to go all the way back to the Tapas Bar, is she a complete & utter bloody lunatic???????
 
Another thing- I have heard that the apartment front door isn't like ones we have here in the US. Maybe MoonGoddess can confirm, but I thought in order to go through the door toward the outside, you still had to use a key.
 
One, just one of the reasons I need a mental picture of the way the doors to the flat were left is that there is some evidence of carelessness & haste and then there is the Cuddle Cat, "placed on a high shelf". I do not agree w. Gerry McCann that the person inside while Gerry checked made a swift exit via the open window because Gerry was going out the sliding door. And certainly that person would not have been carrying Madeleine at that time. Far too risky! And there would have been noise. Earlier or later, possibly but not to avoid Gerry at that moment.
 
Tuba said:
One, just one of the reasons I need a mental picture of the way the doors to the flat were left is that there is some evidence of carelessness & haste and then there is the Cuddle Cat, "placed on a high shelf". I do not agree w. Gerry McCann that the person inside while Gerry checked made a swift exit via the open window because Gerry was going out the sliding door. And certainly that person would not have been carrying Madeleine at that time. Far too risky! And there would have been noise. Earlier or later, possibly but not to avoid Gerry at that moment.
Click to expand...
I don't think that Gerry thought the "abductor" got out with Madeleine while he was there. He was implying that he hid in the apartment until Gerry left then went out the window with Madeleine. Seems a bit silly of the abductor to go out of the window carrying a child to attract attention when he could have left by the door! :laugh:
 
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