IN - Lauren Spierer, 20, Bloomington, 03 June 2011 - #19

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Btown, glad you're here this a.m. I just drove by and saw Jim Graham's private security car parked behind 5 North. I've not seen it there before have you? It's the official one that looks like a police car, not unmarked. Just wonder if it's there frequently or always or rarely.

P.S. I took a photo in case anyone wants a visual aid.:saber:

yes please on the visual aid, or, at least, who is Jim Graham?
 
Not saying anyone did anything like that, but hiding the body is not irrational at all. The evidence degrades. Even if the body is found-most of evidence is gone by now. Cause of death-undetermined. So how is it irrational? If somebody wanted to hide the evidence of whatever it is, hiding the body, IMO, would be the most rational thing to do.
 
While I think ODing is a real possibility, it's now hard to believe she left to go to a DD's house, wanting to buy more coke, in the newly as-described condition. I don't think she'd even be asking. Don't think like a person who WANTS to party, wanting more coke. Think like a person admitting to taking Xanex, who's foaming at the mount, stumbling out of an elevator, falling on you knees, and needing to be scooped up and helped out of a building. Would YOU be walking down the street two hours later, out looking for coke? I don't think so.

All I know about coke is what I've read, but it's not necessarily consistent with this.
 
I am in tears reading Charlene's letter. I truly admire her strength and determination in the face of this unimaginable situation. She has reminded me a lot of my own mother ever since I saw her at one of the early press conferences, wearing an "IU Mom" T-shirt. I just can't even imagine being in her shoes. Stay strong Spierer family. I hope your appeal helps chip away at the responsible person's resolve, and I hope you get some answers soon.
 
Johneverett
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Join Date: Jun 2011
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Rumor Patrol
Recent rumors have really set this board abuzz.

Pants found by searchers
Searchers at Martinsville because of cell phone pinging

Eight billion posts later, I am not going to cite sources, but I think at some point it's been posted more than once that LE said all POI (that we know of - the big 4) have given DNA. So I think that makes sexual violence seem less likely.

<snipped>

Just want to clarify and ask something. I wouldn't say the pants on fire thing set this board ablaze (lol), and we may soon hear from someone else to lend greater credence to calls in Martinsville. Lastly I'm very interested in the source for all 4 POI having given DNA. Only place I can find it is Tony Gatto.
 
I agree with the majority of this, especially the boys' motivation to hide an OD. In terms of LS possibly wanting to buy more coke, etc., I think it depends on the personality. There are users who can't stop ... take John Belushi. He went back to his room drunk, vomited, and went back to partying. The woman who gave him the fatal speedball was charged and convicted. But he wanted to keep on partying. I'm not sure LS COULD have been out looking for more, but she might have TAKEN what was offered.

And the boys might have freaked if that happened (perhaps justifiably so). Similar to Belushi's death was musician Tim Buckley's: a friend, ticked because an intoxicated Buckley interrupted him having sex, put some heroin on a mirror and told him to take it all. Buckley, described as "rebellious," did just that ... and died from a heroin/alcohol overdose. That friend was also tried and convicted. I agree we need to try and get into their heads, but w/o knowing the personalities, it's hard, IMO.

I'd like to think that LS wasn't looking for more and that the boys wouldn't hide an OD. But as you note, none of them may have been thinking rationally. The bigger issue I have, actually, is how they could have hidden her body so well if that's what happened. Unless they just got lucky. But as well all know, luck usually runs out.

PS: Charlene's letter is haunting and heartbreaking.

IMO it has nothing to do with personality, but rather the level of addiction. People of many different types of personality fall to addition. That said, if she was taking Xanex bars and cocaine every night, as often as Jim Bulushi did drugs, I find it hard to believe she could have performed so well in college. There have been comments regarding what a great student she's been. We need to remember how little LS is. I'm not saying that she may not have wanted more, at some point, but physically, how was she capable of going out to get it? This thought is in reference to Northsider's comments about her maybe going to a DD's house and ODing. The only way I do wonder if someone OFFERED her more, is if some of her friends believed that some more coke would contradict the effects of the Xanex. That's an entirely possible idea, and if true, it would give more reason to them wanting to hide her body. I think that even in their own minds, they could be justifying what they did. They may have been trying to "help" her in the only way they knew how - to contradict one drug's effect on her body. Very scary to play Doctor.
 
All I know about coke is what I've read, but it's not necessarily consistent with this.

I'm not sure that I understand in what way you feel that coke isn't consistent with my comment below, because my point was centered around her physical description, rather than drugs. If you're implying that coke isn't consistent with the foaming at the mouth, etc., that's true, but Xanex can be, and that's why I included it. The way that she has been described physically, is consistent with taking Xanex bars and mixing it with other things, as she was rumored to have done. My point was that regardless of what she may have taken, I don't feel that she was physically in any shape to be out wanting to get more of ANY drug. It's been rumored that she may have gone to a DD's house to get more coke, and that she may have OD'd there, after he fell asleep. While I think this is possible, I think it's highly unlikely, given her physically described state. I think it's more likely that she passed out somewhere and never woke up. I think she either went somewhere else, straight from the gravel lot, or went to 5 North and never left. I can't see someone of this description being capable of walking out the door and down the street alone,less than 2 hours later.



"While I think ODing is a real possibility, it's now hard to believe she left to go to a DD's house, wanting to buy more coke, in the newly as-described condition. I don't think she'd even be asking. Don't think like a person who WANTS to party, wanting more coke. Think like a person admitting to taking Xanex, who's foaming at the mount, stumbling out of an elevator, falling on you knees, and needing to be scooped up and helped out of a building. Would YOU be walking down the street two hours later, out looking for coke? I don't think so." -
 
Just want to clarify and ask something. I wouldn't say the pants on fire thing set this board ablaze (lol), and we may soon hear from someone else to lend greater credence to calls in Martinsville. Lastly I'm very interested in the source for all 4 POI having given DNA. Only place I can find it is Tony Gatto.

CR and MB were reported early on. I believe the first report of JR was yesterday, but there may have been one earlier. I don't believe there's been any report re JW providing a sample, but he was described as cooperative at the 6/10 news conference and I believe CR and MB's samples were given on 6/(8 or?) 9 or 10. JW was in Btown at that time.
 
"While I think ODing is a real possibility, it's now hard to believe she left to go to a DD's house, wanting to buy more coke, in the newly as-described condition. I don't think she'd even be asking. Don't think like a person who WANTS to party, wanting more coke. Think like a person admitting to taking Xanex, who's foaming at the mount, stumbling out of an elevator, falling on you knees, and needing to be scooped up and helped out of a building. Would YOU be walking down the street two hours later, out looking for coke? I don't think so." -

Having never done coke or xanax, I can't say what a person who has done either or both is feeling or thinking.
 
Sorry for the multiple posts but something that I said earlier, makes me wonder....

JR and LS were friends and have been presumably for years (or at least knew of each other for that long). I'd think that he'd want to help his friend. So, let's say that LS shows up at his door in the described state. He may certainly have given her some coke to help contradict the effects. Or maybe he called ZO or someone else to come and give her some. Maybe ZO had to walk her back to his place to get it. That could explain the Mystery Man sighting. My point is that a friend this age (especially one who's already under some influence perhaps) may not think that the best thing to do to help, is to get her to a Doctor (who would likely report the drug abuse). Instead, he may feel that he can "cure" the situation by giving her another drug to contradict the first one. Now, given her size and her heart condition, it may have just been all too much. However, at the time, he couldn't have possibly known that if HT didn't even know it. Also, to this day, while he may feel terribly sad about a possible death, he may have felt that it was an accident and that he was protecting his friend from getting her into trouble by taking her to the Dr. He was also maybe protecting himself, if he was the one to give her the earlier drugs. He may not feel as much guilt over this as we may think. He may seriously believe that the death was an accident and that all he had done was to help her out. He may also think that hiding her body in a way, was the right thing to do as well. While there are wild rumors, without a body/autopsy, her parents do not truly know the extent of her drug use, and perhaps in some way, JR (if this theory is true) feels that he's spared them of learning the truth about their daughter, as well as to have preserved her reputation with them. Again, he may justify this whole thing as "helping a friend".

If any of this is true, when he grows up and becomes a parent, I believe he will grow to feel differently. Having said that, if many years go by between now and then, he could completely grow to never believe any differently. I've tried to understand why JR could have an involvement and/or hide a body when he was a friend for so long, and this is one way that is sensible to me. I guess the same could ring true for JW. For everyone else, I just think they'd be all out for themselves.
 
(excerpt from letter) "I've learned there lurks an evil, a cruel, heartless element that cares more about themselves than the life of my daughter. That this element of humanity exists in the world is beyond comprehension. Your silence is deafening. Your lack of compassion is irreprehensible. Your lack of respect for another human being which allows you to go day, by day, watching is unimaginable. Everyone is put on this earth for a purpose. Everyone has a defining moment. In the blink of an eye Lauren disappeared. Do not let this be your defining moment. You have no idea what you have taken from us. "

These do not sound like the words of someone who believes that their daughter OD'd, or was involved in an accident, or even a crime of passion.
These words sound more like someone who believes that their daughter was abducted and disposed of. (IMO)
 
Having never done coke or xanax, I can't say what a person who has done either or both is feeling or thinking.

I remember being around people who did coke in college. Outwardly, you would not really have known, had I not seen them do it, aside from them having an over abundance of energy. As for Xanex, I have a relative who takes it as prescribed. She is knocked out from it. I can only imagine that if she had taken more than the prescribed strength, and combined with alcohol, she'd be stumbling out of elevators and falling on her knees....maybe even foaming at the mouth. One little dose makes her funny to talk to, just before she has to go to bed. If she had cocaine on board, she may be more functioning.
 
These do not sound like the words of someone who believes that their daughter OD'd, or was involved in an accident, or even a crime of passion.
These words sound more like someone who believes that their daughter was abducted and disposed of. (IMO)

I so appreciate varying viewpoints.....helps me see things with open eyes. I got the exact opposite from this. When I read "cares more about themselves than the life of my daughter" I guess it could mean he wanted sexual gratification, but to me, I took this to mean that someone cares more about himself in terms of not wanting to get into trouble" I took this to mean that she was speaking to friends.

(excerpt from letter) "I've learned there lurks an evil, a cruel, heartless element that cares more about themselves than the life of my daughter. That this element of humanity exists in the world is beyond comprehension. Your silence is deafening. Your lack of compassion is irreprehensible. Your lack of respect for another human being which allows you to go day, by day, watching is unimaginable. Everyone is put on this earth for a purpose. Everyone has a defining moment. In the blink of an eye Lauren disappeared. Do not let this be your defining moment. You have no idea what you have taken from us. "
 
JR and LS were friends and have been presumably for years (or at least knew of each other for that long).

They had been at school for two years. HT said that they had known each other for one year, while HT may have known JR a little longer than that.

I don't know how the proximity of their families earlier in life might play in, but that's what HT said.
 
They had been at school for two years. HT said that they had known each other for one year, while HT may have known JR a little longer than that.

I don't know how the proximity of their families earlier in life might play in, but that's what HT said.

Thanks. I was going on the assumption that they had known OF each other longer, since their grandparents lived next to each other. I still think that a year is a LONG time. Friendships form quickly while in college, because you are practically living with one another. Your entire life evolves around each other differently than it does in the real world. I also think that kids tend to "protect" one another in strange ways in college.
 
I remember being around people who did coke in college. Outwardly, you would not really have known, had I not seen them do it, aside from them having an over abundance of energy. As for Xanex, I have a relative who takes it as prescribed. She is knocked out from it. I can only imagine that if she had taken more than the prescribed strength, and combined with alcohol, she'd be stumbling out of elevators and falling on her knees....maybe even foaming at the mouth. One little dose makes her funny to talk to, just before she has to go to bed. If she had cocaine on board, she may be more functioning.

What combining Xanax and alcohol does is not only make you stumble and incoherent, it also completely negates your inhibitions and negative feelings. So when you are feeling extremely wasted and you keep nodding off, the idea of doing some coke is exactly what you would want especially if someone has suggested it, or you yourself have access to it and it is on your mind. When you are doing Xanax and alcohol, you're not just wasted like a drunk, you are in a state of mental "pleasure". It may not look like it to an outsider, but the benzo action on brain chemistry is to stimulate the pleasure chemicals... and so the desire is there to prolong it, and not to crash out, and if coke came to mind, and she knew it was readily available, I would have no problems believing that every conscious moment she had in between moments of stupor, she was driven to gaining access to some coke.
 
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